Is this one of the most underrated masterpieces ever?

This book is simply genius, it's up there with other great classics like Faust, Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace etc.

This and Ulysses are probably the best books of the 20th century, and yet the latter has far more fame than the former. Why is it? Are people scared of reading Musil's magum opus because of its size?

Isn't annoying that the book is not finish ?

Nah German is better than finish

Yea maybe people are scared of its lenght, plus it's unfinished. It's not underrated though, it's widely regarded as one of the best novel of the 20th century. One of the greatest, along with Proust and Joyce.

It's philosophy structured as fiction.

so?

Like all the greatest novels ever written.

It's a philosophical romance, like many other before and after it.

Great novels have philosophical implications but the dramatic structure wins out. Musil's opus very thinly dramatizes its material. It's a success as a novel, certainly, but it's nowhere near as great as Ulysses, which not only dramatizes but philsophizes and aestheticizes what is generally considered plain material, a person's day.

>Musil's opus very thinly dramatizes its material

He depicts an historical/moral landscape. The decline of values, art and science. Its characters aren't meant to be dramatized. The drama is about universal man.

agreed, it's a quagmire of german philosophy, just like all their books are. only good author to come out of there is Bernhard, and only because he just unabashedly rants for about 200 pages and shuts the fuck up. he doesn't pretend he's any better than he is.

German lit is easily the worst, right next to french lit.

Op...Musil is one of my favorite writers also. Have you read the Magic Mountain? That book, Ulysses and Musil are probably my desert island trinity...followed closely by Borges, GR, Recognitions, and Zweig.

> the memes are strong with this one

Mann, to me, always seemed so pale in comparison to Musil.

pleb

If there's no drama then there's a limit to what a novelization can achieve versus a non fiction study. Like I said, I think it is a good novel, but it isn't a great one and probably couldn't be. (Hence it's unfinished.)

If your materials can't be adapted to your form well that doesn't excuse you from using the materials or the form.

Anyone who considers this fantastic book as only philosophy structured as a novel either hasn't read it or has completely missed it's most central theme. The relationship between the intellectual world and the corporeal world is reflected in the relationship between Musil's narrative and philosophy.

Also, although the plot is glacial, barely there for a novel of this size, the character development is regardless wonderful. Musil can make every genius look like an idiot and vice versa through his incredible perspicacity of character (and everything else).

original poster from earlier here...

So I finished Mann about 8-9 months ago and Musil shortly thereafter. The reason I offered Mann over Musil is because The Magic Mountain affected me more deeply in a way that's difficult to pin down...and it has possibly grown on me since. Like most folks, I was ambivalent about the book until the Snow chapter came along. I was completely bowled over during that vision he had laying out there in the snow storm. I can't nail down the meaning of that vision...but there was something that hit me on the subconscious level. The image of the duel between Settembrini and Naphta stays with me still. In the end, the book seemed to have more heart than the mathematical precision of Musil's text.

Now Musil on the other hand delivered a level of insight and nuance in his observations of social interactions that I think is unmatched by Joyce, Mann, or any other writer for that matter. Suffice to say he's one of the greats for good reason.

Good old Joyce... still not dethroned. Ulysses is still the novel to beat...maybe the most important work since Hamlet. I don't believe that's hyperbole. He completely unpacked the infinite possibilities of the written word. Literally every single sentence has multiple layers of subtext, wordplay, and allusions.

However, for pure emotive power...and the strength of his prose...Mann is still my personal favorite.

Good thread.

Have you read The Sleepwalkers?

I read the first part. It was good, good prose. What do you think of it?

Where would you recommend going with Zweig after "beware of pity"? Shorter stories, "the world of yesterday," something else?

To anyone interested in Musil but put off by the size of The Man Without Qualities try The Confusions of Young Torless. I found it very affecting and erotic.

I loved the first paragraph. Musil's wit is outstanding.

"blah blah blah. In other words, it was a fine day in August."

There was a lot of great material in there. Walter blaming his inadequacy and failure as a musician on the decadency of the age like every mediocre person does. Ulrich's mistress Bonadea ?? (i think that's her name) thinking high society was all about the gut. Stumm comparing the Parallel campaign intellectuals to horses that are bad feeders.
There was a lot more. I fondly remember laughing a lot in the middle of a dense paragraph.

What do you guys think about the incestuous relationship that would have developed Ulrich and Agathe (speculation but everything seemed to be pointing towards it) had Musil not died? I remember reading in a review (will post link if I can remember) that Musil had a sister who died at birth which is why Agathe seemingly comes out of nowhere.

Anyway, for those who haven't read it, I highly recommend it, Sophie Wilkins and Burton Pike translation for the English readers. It has some of my favorite characters in literature.

Also final thought, the title in German is great. Der Mann ohne Eigenschaften

Not that user, but I've read a lot of Zweig.

I'd recommend reading a few of his short stories (Any collection is good), then the world of yesterday/the post office girl, then Chess Story.

Read Sleepwalkers, Broch is pretty good, not genius though. La mort de Virgile is pure wanking though, as pretentious as a fiction book can get. Truely was a pain finishing it.

La Recherche is superior to both Ulysses and MWQ though, at least for me. Joyce's work, prose aside, is child play compared to Proust.

I would also agree that Torless is the proper introduction to Musil's work. Or 3 women.

Read Sleepwalkers, Broch is pretty good, but not genius. La mort de Virgile is pure wanking though, as pretentious as a fiction book can get. Truely was a pain finishing it.

La Recherche is still superior superior to both Ulysses and MWQ, at least for me. Joyce's work, prose aside, is child play compared to Proust. As for Mann's prose, I can't say since ive only read him in french/english (spanish, even), where it all seems a little... guindé, self-serious (which Musil, surprisingly, isn't).

Thanks very much!

Probably the greatest opening paragraph I have ever read, but I never read past the first few pages. My mum was probably right when she called it the most boring book she'd ever read.

thanks -- I'm that user from earlier. Beware of Pity and his short stories (like the chess player for example) are my favorites.

I read Swann's Way a number of years ago. I probably need to read it again.

I think once you approach the level of Joyce, Mann, Proust, or Musil...it really just come down to individual preference. Go with what speaks to you most. All are wonderful for different reasons.

...I enjoy Zweig for its sentimentality and the simplicity of his prose. Genius? I'm not sure -- but he's a personal favorite all the same.

>...I enjoy Zweig for its sentimentality and the simplicity of his prose. Genius? I'm not sure -- but he's a personal favorite all the same.

same here, I read Zweig before going to bed, his prose is just so simple and comfy, I love him but I think I wouldn't put him on the same level as Proust or even Mann

>level of Joyce, Mann, Proust, or Musil...
Dostoyevsky was better than all of them.

Do you think it loses a lot in transalations (spanish or english)? I want to read it so bad but i can't wait until i know enough german

going to be honest, I had never heard of this author or this book before, will definitely look into it. this board sometimes does its job

Hmm...on par maybe