Are certain surahs more important than others? Is reading the Quran even the best way to get an understanding of Islam or are their better books?
I'm attempting to read the Quran to get a better understanding of Islam but reading it front to back is dry and repetitive.
What's there to understand about Islam? That it's a vile, murdering, primitive religion? That it's a perverted version of the Bible created by Mohammad to control his people and destroy his enemies?
Here's the traditional "Egyptian" chronological order of the Surahs:
wikiislam.net
Later Surahs are more important. The Qur'an is dry and repetitive by design. Remember Moses.
Like it or not it's one of the most important books/ideologies ever put to paper. Having an understanding of Islam gives you an insight into the lives of billions of people and how they've shaped the world for better or worse.
>understanding of Islam
Just ask your local Muslim community. Qafarah can't understand Quran by their own.
>Traditionally arranged longest to shortest
Why?
As I said, later Surahs are more important
Because that makes it easier to learn by heart
The Bible and the Quran were both written by the Hebrews to control the lands and people to the east and west. You would benefit from reading some history of abrahamic religion.
Ah I see, I recently learned Hafiz is a title and not a name. I've been reading it whenever I feel spiritually pure (in my own way) a little at a time and it is quite beautiful. If I read it when I'm in a regular mood I don't understand it at all. Like if I read it after eating junk food or watching a lot of television or whatever pointless crap. It seems to respond only to a certain mindset. Strange.
Dont you get bored of posting this shit? Honestly grow up.
>You would benefit from reading some history of abrahamic religion.
Such as?
Muslim here, you can ask anything if you want to know more about the religion or history.
I see that "Christians and Jews" have no need to fear but later it isn't so nice about them. I'm only on the first Surah so i can't say I know much but I'm curious how do Muslims view Christians?
> a little at a time and it is quite beautiful.
Which language? The english version I used I found it to be not so beautiful so much as clear and pragmatic (this of course was before I learned about the whole abrogation and ordering business)
> It seems to respond only to a certain mindset. Strange.
Something that you might find interesting or at least entertaining I used to have a similar experience with the book of Mormon and occasionally a feeling of lightness in the chest and euphoria
Turns out the caffeine pills I had just started taking had taking triggered it
>how do Muslims view Christians
Christianity is represented as a "sahih" religion on Quran. We also accept the nativity and the prophecy of Jesus. But Islam takes Jesus not as Son of God, but as a mortal man like Nestorius did.
Blasphemy, Jesus Christ IS the Son of God, he shaped the entirety of western civilization. Mohammad did what? He was a murderer and a rapist.
Unitarians and various other Christians feel the same; although personally I think he meant he is the son of god just as we are all children of god and he also suggested that anyone could do what he did with faith; I don't see where the interpretation that he is God incarnate comes from maybe some Christians could help me out
Reading it in English I guess beauty is the same as clear and pragmatic to me. I also like Wittgenstein.
What a fantastic contribution to this thread, thank you very much.
Refute me then, bitch.
The Gospel of John is the most explicit, it lays out that Jesus is God Himself. The other gospels and the letters of the apostle Paul also indicate the authors thought Jesus was divine in some sense, but they're more ambiguous.
*teleports behind you*
*whispers* Islamic Golden Age
Psh, nothing personnel kid.
>Reading it in English I guess beauty is the same as clear and pragmatic to me. I also like Wittgenstein.
Makes sense.
> I don't see where the interpretation that he is God incarnate comes from maybe some Christians could help me out
Because the Jews persecuted and had him killed for it.
Even before his trial you had things like
>The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God
If he meant he was the son of god in the the way all people are why do you think they would go to such great lengths to kill him?
Likewise you have things like this where he practically says it.
(check the cross reference)
>Reading it will give insight and understanding to billions of people.
No it will not, because it's shit writing and "understanding" comes from reading between the lines and imagination. (And unless you read it in Arabic - most will claim you can never understand it.)
If you want to understand, you better read the various Hadiths that different moslems adhere to. They are the interpretations and addendums, that the Imams of teach.
Through those it will be easier to understand why Sunni and Shia kill each other. (Yes, it's about power, but the people is tricked with religion).
en.wikipedia.org
Never trust a muslim to tell you the truth about his own religion
T. Ex muslim
I don't know, ex muslims always seemed to be more prejudiced towards his/her old beliefs than moderate muslims.
Islam is a third tier religion for desert tribal societies, there isn't much to be learned from it. It's better to read high IQ sacred texts like the Vedas and the Avesta.
Even the bible is better because even though it starts at the level of the Koran you can follow the progression of civilization and the arrival of new ideas as you progress. As for the Koran, I managed to make it about half way and I stopped. It's an easy read though, it's really not made for scholarly readers like Indian texts are.
....so we shouldn't trust you?
>All Cretans are liars
>It's better to read high IQ sacred texts like the Vedas and the Avesta.
Lol, fuck off you hindu. What a fucking joke of a religion and unjust society you fucks have.
>Mohammad did what?
Actually being a notable person in life and not just a obscure prophet that became the 'son of god' decades after his death by a man who didn't even know him or any of his followers that ended up becoming the dominate narrative among other explanations within its own religion and became what it is today through the extremely complex and sometimes random chain of historical cause and effect. Muhammad was actually someone who was historical and worthy of writing by their own right. And it's honestly hilarious what people pen on Muhammad while ignoring the same shit in the Bible
Read Nietzsche's assessment of the caste system. That's the way I see it.
>Only records of him are a single book and a handful of documents emerging two hundred years after his supposed death
Nice try Abdul, but being a shitskin doesn't give you a pass. At least Christfags have Apologetics.
hey its cause and event user, did you finally take the plunge and convert to Islam?
reading it in english robs it of some of its syllable-based literary devices, its distinctive poetic style when it comes to rhyme scheme, or delivery of ideas within a surah. reading it front to back is difficult, and it probably won't give you much insight, if at all, to any real religious ideas.
if you are ernestly interested in finding a glimmer of knowledge, this is a good book to start with. i remember reading a good biography on the prophet when i was in high school that delivered well-needed background info to the book's development, as i always pictured some guy writing a book with the intent of making it fool-proof logically in order to gain power, but the narrative says otherwise. i could see if i could find it, if youre interested.
regardless of personal religious belief, reading any religious book for the sake of personal knowledge, growth, understanding, or challenge is definitely worth it. i dont doubt that it aids in mental development.
im pretty sure you can find that guide as an online, free pdf, as ive done before, but if youre not up for that kind of investment, reading a surah near the end and then reading a few explanations online is interesting. some of them provide anecdotal or comparative elements without explicit direction, so its kind of fun to say, "oh, i didnt know that theme was there."
*western muslims
The ones in the actual Islamic community are painfully honest about it.
But western Muslims do this weird thing where they all parrot Sufism, and have no understanding of actual Sunni and Shia beliefs.
Honestly the religion is fucked, and most of my muslim friends realize this and associate themselves with Iraqi/Afgani nationalism and are just Muslim because they were born that way.
Genuine Islamic belief is incomparable with western ethical and political beliefs.
Sufis are cool though.
>le the bible is just as murderous and rapey as the Quran meme
Please give one example of something Jesus did that could ever be considered as bad as Mohommad's actions.
>interested in finding a glimmer of knowledge,
>Gods miraculous work can only be understood and only has beauty in one language
>Never trust an ex-Muslim to tell you the truth about Islam
Fixed that for you
There is no such thing as "western ethical and political beliefs"
Arabic is the original human language, user. This makes sense as Islam is the original religion, hence why you don't convert to Islam but revert to Islam.
The Quran says so, so it must be true.
>there is no such thing as western culture and commonly held beliefs
user I think it's time to stop posting.
jesus did literally nothing
he was some random hobo who preached about the end of the world and then got executed for disturbance of peace
>only to a certain mindset
this is true. read the second aya of surah baqarah carefully to learn more about this.
thats also the reason why wicked people will never get the true message (not the muhqam ayat)
>tfw Veeky Forums is deliberately ignoring muslim opinons on islam related threads
Bump for interest in the history of religions.
Dhimmi slave labor
That's right, there is no such thing as western culture and commonly held beliefs
There is no such thing as west
Ftfy
A dhimmi cannot be a slave
I've read that when Prophet Muhammad was in Mecca, He preached more about peace, but when He moved to Medina and got more followers and political power He started really going heavy on 'not taking Jews and Christians as allies' and 'find the non-believers and kill them' and such. So the peaceful beginnings don't matter much because His true nature comes out later in the book. I intend on reading the Quran. I've found two verses thus far that I agree with, but the vast majority of the Quran, in my experience, is hatred, intolerance, sexism, and promotion of conflict. I also intend to read the Bible, and when you look at the Old Testament through the lens of Jesus Christ's teachings, it seems like a loving and tolerant religion. The Old Testament has parts that instruct communities to stone people to death for doing things, and also in Leviticus 20:13 in particular it speaks of putting 'men who lay with other men' to death, but Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" which means He Himself was against the more barbaric parts of the Old Testament.
In the end, when a Christian kills in the name of God, the Bible says that is wrong; "thou shalt not kill", and the only thing in the Bible that says killing is ok is when it speaks of a thief breaking into your house at night. If you strike him with a fatal blow, it is not manslaughter, but then it says that if the Sun has already risen then it is bad or something like that so if it's day then it's bad to kill even if it's against a thieving intruder.
Meanwhile, when a Muslim kills in the name of Allah, unless it is a believer (a Muslim) then it is what Prophet Muhammad and Allah has willed, and they will regard the murderer well in the 'hereafter.'
So it doesn't matter that many people died in the name of Christianity during the Crusades; it was against the Bible's teachings, but all those non-Muslims who died at the hands of Muslims in a cry of 'Allahu ackbar' (God is Great), it was just and fair as far as Allah is concerned.
Does this help, OP?
... I can't believe I fucking got Satan trips in a post where I am sharing my views on and what I've learned about Christianity... maybe I should worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster instead, peace be upon His sauciness...
I think its that way with most religions. The nonbelieving Jews i know seem to be have the most benevolent feelings towards their religion imo but ex-christians and muslims always seem pretty bitter to me.