Been reading "Food Of The Gods" alongside Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan books and I really find this stuff fascinating

>This is the single most morally repulsive

Shut up, organized religion scum.

Why would God create/allow psychedelic plants to exist if he found their use/effects to be immoral/a sin?

Seriously, why do modern religions/governments have such a hatred for these purely natural things?

Did not God give all the plants/animals for mans benefit?

God gave all FRUIT for Man's benefit.

Yeah, no. You're wrong.

>dude
Not a fucking argument. I am so sick of the "dude" retort. You've trigg'd me so hard right now.

Straight edge fags are the fucking worst.

Pretty much all his "anthropology" has been debunked. You can google it pretty easily even though his cultists try to sponge it off the internet.

This is a good book about "planetary doses" of LSD. Written by the guy who is in jail for allegedly doing just that. I may or may not be family so I may or may not be able to confirm the fantastic anecdotes from within.

K
K
>implying
>implying it doesn't for some people
K

>morally
Get a load of this guy!

There's a lot of fruits that have psychedelic substances in them so yeah fuck you kind of.

I'm an old head. Been doing this stuff for the past ten years. Every psychedelic, every research chemical, you name it, I've done it. I won't pretend I'm no worse for wear. But I have certainly gleaned a few insights in the process.

Having been around the block a few times I have grown sick of fakers like Castaneda. I suggest Black Elk Speaks for some real Amerindian philosophy but if you're just into white dudes writing self-help with mild shamanic insights then check out Daniel Pinchbeck, goyim, at least he's honest like Mckenna :^)

...

You don't believe in morals? Personally, I am disgusted that you could escape the psychedelic experience without realizing the value of some form of virtue ethics be their source eastern or western.

>>white dudes writing self-help with mild shamanic insights then check out Daniel Pinchbeck, goyim, at least he's honest like Mckenna :^)

Fair enough, I never said I bought Castaneda's story.

I just found it mildly entertaining.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard

Morals are a human construct you fucking mental cuck.

Wow. I am surprised a psychedelic user would think cuck is a real insult. You did read the Mckenna part where he talks about mushrooms causing giant orgies right? Sounds like man has been cucked for a while.

Morals may be handed down from tradition but ethics is objective. Surely if someone attempted to kill you you would consider it an evil.

Eh. Sorry. Didn't mean to come across agressive. I know a kid who swears by the more spiritual lessons he learned in the books but I have also heard from native sources that it should all be taken with a heavy grain of salt.

>Surely if someone attempted to kill you you would consider it an evil

According to Christcuckery you're supposed to let them and then forgive them for it.

I do in some cases. But I find posting ass on the internet as yourself to be morally more repulsive.

>I have also heard from native sources that it should all be taken with a heavy grain of salt

As should any spiritual "insights".

As the saying goes, "if you're a buddha in front of someone's path then let them slay you"

>ethics is objective

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Ethics are a human-invented system derived from empathy.

Morals are a very private affair that should only be discussed at home between two consenting adults.

>Seriously, why do modern religions/governments have such a hatred for these purely natural things?

Because they are a powerful threat to social order.

All the niggaz in this thread need to go read some Lewis and Chesterton.

>Endless conflict. Endless misunderstanding. All life is that. Great and little cannot understand one another. But in every child born of man, Father Redwood, lurks some seed of greatness--waiting for the Food.
>We fight not for ourselves but for growth--growth that goes on for ever. To-morrow, whether we live
or die, growth will conquer through us. That is the law of the spirit for ever more. To grow according to the will of God! To grow out of these cracks and crannies, out of these shadows and darknesses, into greatness and the light! Greater," he said, speaking with slow deliberation, "greater, my Brothers! And then--still greater. To grow, and again--to grow. To grow at last into the fellowship and understanding of God. Growing.... Till the earth is no more than a footstool.
The giants are bigger, stronger, and smarter, so they should be able to act without considering the effects of their actions on the little people, and if there is conflict it should be the giants who win over the little people. It's their right to do so because they are superior beings. It's the same sort of survival-of-the-fittest-based morality that is used to justify the abuses inflicted by the strong on the weak.
Then there is the communistic desire to impose the ideals of the giants (bigness) on all the world, by force if need be.
>"We will scatter the Food; we will saturate the world with the Food"
And also its blatant display of the hubris of futurism. Progress (growth) is held as the ultimate good and should be pursued no matter what, feasibility and consequences be damned.
If the Food were spread out to all the world, as the giants say they want, the world would become so overpopulated that mass starvation and a brutal struggle for survival would ensue worldwide. Everything would grow except the most basic resources needed for life: sunlight, water, and space. But hey, who cares about that, right? Bigger=better, so it'll all work out in the end.

any other thug niggaz here?
you guys like ja rule?

Ethics are a tool for achieving a good life (which should be divorced as a concept in your mind from mere pleasure or happiness). Whether you are platonist or stoic or aristotelian or yogi or buddhist you find the same lessons repeated. There is a way as Parmenides might say. A way toward truth and goodness and beauty.

But y'all are children and probably wouldn't understand. You probably think like the young Rimbaud, "one evening I sat beauty upon my lap... and I found her bitter and I reviled her"

TL;DR

Learn to summarize if you ever want to be taken seriously.

>Ethics are a tool for achieving a good life

I've seen plenty of codes of ethics that engender misery as ethical.

If there are an infinite array of ethical system then there is an objectively correct ethical system. Which means you can narrow the infinite ethical systems down to two categories: the correct one and all the others.

>If there are an infinite array of ethical system then there is an objectively correct ethical system

what strange new logic is this

Its called bullshit.

If the set of all answers to a question doesn't contain the correct answer then it cannot be the set of all answers because we can conceive of at least one answer it does not hold. If you do not believe the question of ethics can be answered then get off the board, listen to peterson and clean your room, ya filthy pomo.

>If there are an infinite array of ethical system then there is an objectively correct ethical system

>We just need to believe harder

>Can God create a hot dog so big not even He can eat it?

So what's the correct answer to that? We just haven't conceived of it yet?

Various books by Wade Davis, especially as "One River" and "The Serpent and the Rainbow" (which was turned into a ridiculous horror movie by Wes Craven).

Also Davis's teacher, Richard Evan Schultes, who helped write "Plants of the Gods" (Albert Hoffman was one of the co-authors) and conducted several pioneering studies in ethnobotany on doin' drugs around the world.

The Schultes stuff is a bit more of a catalog/reference book whereas the Davis stuff is more of a travelogue focused on storytelling and personal growth through tripping balls about the globe.

I think in one of his books Davis tells a story about how Schultes used to give out peyote buttons to his undergrads as part of an "extra credit" assignment.

Faith is the key to all mysteries.
The theological sophistries in critique of defense of the Omnigod are hardly relevant to a prechristian thinker such as myself.

Ok so you practice ethical sophistries instead of theological ones, big whoop
Your stupid.
The content of the question wasn't the issue the logical structure of it was because in your previous post you apparently were not aware that the possibility of an answer to a question is largely dependent on the formulation of the question.

>a prechristian thinker such as myself
I love this place

4 years ago I attended a research conference on psychedelics with some female friends from my school and when I was there walking around with them I saw Pinchbeck and at one point I noticed him sort of glowering at me like he was jealous or didn't like that I evidently knew them. It was weird, he was like one of the last people I would have thought would be like that.

Well, there's really only two answers to your question assuming it's not incoherent so one has to be correct. it's really only problematic if you wish to retain god's omnipotence.

I like these ones too. Not just psychedelics but all kinds of power plants.

>why would God allow other humans to kill each other if it was a sin
Really weak on the thinking there, brainlet

>Why would God create/allow psychedelic plants to exist if he found their use/effects to be immoral/a sin?

dude, this is the same god that damned all of humanity to death because some chick ate an apple, sounds exactly like something he'd do t b h

>planetary doses

oh thank god someone who's not scared to take a ton of acid, sick of all these microdose fags, do u know how much acid ppl used to take in the 60s compared to now? if someone says they are only going to take one hit i get fucking insulted to be honest, u want to trip with me and that's all ur taking? that's like saying we're gonna go out drinking all night and you're having 3 beers, like hell you are

Tbh i see that as consumerism taking over the drug culture, a trip is replaced by a few fractals and duuuuudeeeee im floating
Its probably an attempt to minimize all the horrors of a trip and to keep it a fun "mind expanding" influence which is just a fucking drug echo chamber
As for the microdosers id honestly punch somebody if they told me they were doing it i cant fucking stand the fags that are searching for THE nootropic or THE microdose combo that will save them from being useless sacks of shit

Why would you object to someone trying to improve themselves? Are you insecure about being a useless sack of shit yourself, or are you insecure that someone who isn't already a sack of shit could outperform you?

Define "improve"

Generally people who are into nootropics are cognitive optimizers, so improving as in optimizing your mental states to suit internal/external preferences and demands.

>to suit internal/external preferences and demands
So how can you call it "improvement" if it does not objectively improve anything?

Drugs are a tool, not a solution.

>drugs are a tool, not a solution.
And using a hammer rather than a saw to get a nail in would be an improvement, yes?

Not a micro-hammer

You can objectively quantify what you define as improvement. This can be done with recorded trial and error and meditation. Mushrooms can aid in this also.

The question is just nonsense, and nonsense doesn't even apply to God.

How can it be objective if it is a personal measurement?
Also, how can there be "error" in meditation? If you meditate incorrectly, you are not meditating at all.

>I don't like this question so I will ignore it
wew lad, that was a close one. I almost questioned myself and my beliefs!

Read some C. S. Lewis, fucking mongoloid.

Maybe you should if you didn't understand it enough to make a point.

>getting microcucked by a cisgendered ideologue

Well if your definition is insufficient for establishing objectivity then maybe your definition is weak.

Meditation isn't part of the trial and error, try a substance and later meditate on whether it served a positive purpose.

>Getting lost in the metaphor.
So this is the power of planetary doses.

No, you just made a terrible metaphor

Let me try to get this past your fried brain-barrier.

implied that drugs can't offer self improvement.

Continuing this line of thought, said they were not a solution, but could be a tool.

Now I am saying that finding a MORE APPROPRIATE TOOL (i.e., better drug and dose for the right context) would be an IMPROVEMENT.

> implied that drugs can't offer self improvement.
That is incorrect. The point he was making is that people are looking for the "perfect" dose/drug instead of rolling the dice. You are implying that those same people are improving themselves by not pushing themselves. You are just as cowardly as the people you are trying to defend.

>he took a planetary dose of acid and all he has to show for it is planetary autism

>he hasn't done anything and all he has is an anonymous image board for Indonesian cartoons.

>he makes baseless assumptions about others because it consoles the ideology in his heart

Didn't mean to hurt your feelies lad :^)

>he rushes to get the troll face in before anyone else because that means he wins

I defeated you 3 posts ago m8. Just give it up

>waaah how dare you be annoyed by something
The tone youre taking with me only suggests that youre literally sweating bullets about buying questionable amounts of miracle powders that youve been taking for three days and hope theyll kick in any day now

Oh no, not an ad hominem. What ever will I do to defend the good name of Anonymous?

I really liked this book.

how are you worse for the wear

I disavowed psychedelics after reading the Book of Acts on LSD and having a vision of 1st century Palestine, complete with lepers, tongues of fire, oration, and miracles.
If there's something of value in the psychedelic experience, books like the one in the OP are not going to help people utilize them. Institutional research into the actual properties of these substances is more valuable than speculation on the content of experiences that people who cannot attest to said experiences due to differences in time and place between contemporary researchers and ancient shamans.

Sooo... Is there no Mescalito teacher type character to associate with mescaline?

Because I've been seriously wanting to try it.

if you want to try it then try it. get a foot long cutting of san pedro and brew it into a tea. ingest the bitter shit and experience mescaline. there's nothing a teacher can do for you except trip sit you and/or guide you through the experience, but it's not something you should depend on. i've only had company while tripping 5% of my trips and while somewhat daunting at times it was a much more worthwhile experience solely because the "medicine" came at me like it was my teacher/guide. and all that really means is a part of my mind was playing pretend with my consciousness and making me feel as if a spirit was speaking to me. i can ignore myself sober but not when i'm tripping

I am so sick of that fucking twisted line of logic. You're essentially saying why can't got make something red, but it actually be blue????? Hahaha checkmate christcucks

But since you instead make it about weight it sounds like you're asking a straightforward question about the limits of his powers, and not asking why god can't fix paradoxes in a way that you can percieve.

It hasn't been the same poster, you autistic psycho-all-for-naut

sending love across/as time. whats your 'spiritual practice' situation like now? btw chekc out the web comic of Philip k Dick's 3/74 detailed in his exegesis. kind of similar

...You know that's by H.G. Wells and not Terence McKenna, right? although H.G. Wells was indeed kind of morally repulsive in his futurism, I agree.

Dick said that Luke/Acts is an actual replication of reality as it was/always is. hard to explain. would love to talk further with u

Actually I also read the first half of The Divine Invasion during the same trip. I was raised Catholic and went to Confession for the first time in a decade two years after that trip and have had more meaningful experiences of the Mass, the Sacraments, and all aspects of Christian theology since the experience. I still struggle with sin, but I do so knowingly now. I have become a more conscientious person following more serious reflection on the Word which I have heard since I was a young child.
Dick's Gnosticism doesn't really jive with me, he's too intent on the absolute validity of his own personal vision for it to be ultimately meaningful for anyone else. On the other hand, his concept of the Black Iron Prison and his articulation of his theory of a holographic universe are fascinating as a form of Platonism. Had he more seriously interfaced with Hegelian thought, he might have been one of the great thinkers of the 20th century as opposed to simply being one of the great writers.
It has been remarked that a central aspect of all religion is the repetition of the events described in scripture and remembered in tradition. Dick brings this notion out in detail in his later work.

Quick response b4 im off for a long night hike: the VALIS triology is exactly as you described. And yes+ on Hegel(as far as I can limitedly see how this would work out), I actually really wished Dick read Derrida's Glas(he might have died before this was published), especially those marvelous pages on flowers haha. For some reason it also amazes me he wasn't obsessed with Hildegard's Scivias. will respond later hopefully but just in case i forget: [email protected]

back. Yes religion is 're' + 'legere', bind together the human sea and the divine one over and over again: the mandorla/christ fish sign. A month ago I had an experience in St. Paul's in london where this was made obvious. Grace coming down through the top of my head exploding in the heart the Word was in me around me, water. Im very curious what you mean by 'struggle with sin', I dont entirely operate within a Christian framework(at least vocabularly) but Im very interested in what you mean by this/ how its manifested in your awareness. Im asking because although in my experience I subvocalize my path as surrendering in god and that involves really breaking my own will, its brutal but the only thing to do. But I conceive it more as revealing to myself the chinese finger trap that I am and using that awareness to turn towards the Real. I've never used the word sin though(maybe I read too much foucault as a teenager), I mean forgetfullness of God must also be a divine attribute in a certain way its just that Im choosing not to live that out anymore.

Lol Pinchbeck and McKenna are full of shit like all "entheogenic" PR pseudo-gurus. There is no America wide tradition of indigenous psychedelic use except for assault sorcery, drugging and making people suggestible/easy to indoctrinate. Don't believe any of those hacks. Or check out real anthropology of Amazonia, like Prof Neil Whitehead who studied witchcraft and sorcery in South America, or read the Florentine Codex from the 16th century - mushrooms were only used to drug victims before they were sacrificed/ritually murdered in religious rites.

In Darkness and Secrecy - The Anthropology of Assault Sorcery in Amazonia by Prof Neil Whitehead covers the use of Ayahuasca and other compounds in witchcraft and assault sorcery. Ayahuasca is not used for having "spiritual" experiences amongst the natives.

The Florentine Codex was written in the 16th century by a Catholic scholar who had many local informants among the Mayans.Written for the private reading of the King of Spain at the time, it documents the use of "psychedelic" mushrooms in religious rites - not for any sort of spiritual experience but to drug victims intended for ritual murder and mass human sacrifice.