names the main character after Franz Kafka (intertextuality)

> names the main character after Franz Kafka (intertextuality)
> has an opera scene within an operatic game (literary recursion and metatextuality)
> anachronistically have samurai next to war machines (fabulation)
> opera is the highest form of music (adorno)
> main enemy becomes a literal god proving that god doesn't exist (elie wiesel)
> humans breeding with magical creatures to make mixed children (frankfurt school)

is Final Fantasy VI the final work of postmodern art before the coming of 21st century masterful metamodernists such as Ben Lerner and Shia Lebeouf?

Other urls found in this thread:

warosu.org/vr/thread/S3717975#p3719762
it-he.org/u7_drugs.php
twitter.com/AnonBabble

I can't think of a JRPG that doesn't do this, even Nier just randomly shits out quotes from famous philosophers like a 1st year student.

so what you're saying is that first year philosophy students should be playing Final Fantasy games instead of reading dead old white men?

Are you implying they already don't?

gets the noggin'.... joggin'.... mate

>>humans breeding with magical creatures to make mixed children (frankfurt school)

if postmodernism finishes as memes & irony it's a pretty good prophetic swan song for deconstruction

people are okay with fantasy and post-apoc as genres but cannot into getting nuked in the face by doomsday clowns for no other reason than power
>that being, apparently, all that really matters
>*phew* good thing the real world isn't like that
>esp w/no clear & obvious batman hero and no clear & obvious gotham, b/c the empire are shitheels & the heroic resistance is a meme
>and the BBEG is E from having one too many experiments run on him For Science & b/c the empire obviously has enough of a use for gifted psychopaths to make him a general
>and guess what in the end you just have to keep going anyways in a colossally fucked-up world
>and just for kicks the badass ninja probably dies too

not sure about The Final Work of Postmodern Art but it's pretty solid

t. obnoxious homer

goddamn i gotta play this again. i ran my cartridge into the ground back in 1993-1997. currently have it on steam but don't like the new art. what platform you using girardfag?

also don't forget the cast glorifying a multicultural ideal: empire turncoats, rebels, meathead weebs, veldt savages, mystical asexual mimes, children and grandpas, we got it all folks

hey, you never talked about fou-lu with me in that other thread. Fou-Lu btfos all other villians i'd say.

old-skool emulator senpai

it is far and away my favorite game. i can with obnoxious certainty say it has the best plot in games ever *because* the second act is so anticlimactic. i still agonize over my final four squad that i take to the tower. these things will not change.

>multicultural ideal
yep. without it being fucking stupid, *because there was no One True Hero.* nor did they need to make a point about it either. the point was, kefka blows up the world and you can't stop him because it's not all about a climactic showdown to save the earth. that's old news.

ff7 is of course dope too and i don't want to be That Guy
>tfw you became That Guy a long time ago, might as well live it up now
but 6 is just so good. of course mechanically there are all kinds of weird issues & such. the last battle is super easy too.

but plot? characterization? music? theme? to me it's in a class by itself.

plus it also sits right in the middle of this interesting story about fantasy + tech that runs from ff4 to ff7. if there are 7 homers here who want to get into the philosophy of it that's cool too, i spent some time last year thinking about all of that stuff. 7 definitely has some awesome stuff going on under the hood (and a weirdly explicit heidegger reference i still don't understand).

anyways. wonderful game.

that's because i never played it! i just found out about fou-lu b/c i was in /vr/ saying how great kefka was and somebody said fou-lu was even better/more interesting. so i looked into his backstory and it turns out he was pretty interesting too. plus the art is rad, and the whole choice-based outcome appealed b/c there's no railroading. and unless the story is a masterpiece, railroading sucks. but i never actually played BoF4!

so talk it up user. i have a sense of the plot & character now but i'm not as familiar with it as you are.

ZSNES was my jam in the mid-2000s, but I had a bad ROM. plot failure iirc, somewhere around zozo. no, no, don't offer to send me yours. i would not accept it.

you are spot on about FF6. 7 was great in the days of the four disc set but it has aged terribly. the eco-warrior trope is a bit on the nose for me these days. gaia will be fine, it's man that worries me. and this is precisely the theme of 6: the world is destroyed, but life goes on. and war goes on. you're alright my man, you've got my vote.

well, fou-lu is compelling because he's essentially this god being pestered by humans, and he's not necessarily evil in any sense, he goes through the weakness of being separated from ryu, who is another half of the Yorae dragon. Anyway, it's mostly interesting because you often play from his perspective, and people get wrapped up by the powerful flow of his aura, just as those who meet Ryu. I would say for chaotic evil monster, Kefka has him beat simply for his no nonsense betrayal, mockery, and the fact that he literally succeeds in transforming the world into a hellish wasteland. but for a villian that is only villainous in the sense that he is a central antagonist that has his own semse of purpose that isn't personal, but directly conflicts with the purpose of the protagonist.

bof3 is technically the better game, and i have a lot of nostalgia for bof4. they're both enjoyable games. i've had to move on from games at large except for the occasional roguelike run, since i realized i could enjoy a simple number cruncher strategy type business without getting immersed in writing that's honestly sub par. Definitely check out the suikoden series too, if you haven't, 2 and 3 are especially fun.

man, i got too excited and forgot what the shit i was talking about. anyway, i'm the "the AI from the matrix should have made dyson spheres" guy from the other thread. i really sometimes wish the effort put into more popular entertainment was placed into formats that wouldn't inspire derision. i also wish i hadn't been such a minipleb and spent all that time reading instead of gaming.

this is me being a completely retarded homer about ff6 earlier this year. much sperging about the nuances of the game to be found here
>sigh, you are such a fool, girardfag
warosu.org/vr/thread/S3717975#p3719762

>eco-warrior
i don't want to think about how much that game imprinted itself on me. it's true though. the aesthetics, the setting, everything. i've just been playing catch-up with it ever since. finally deleuze cracked the code and linked it up. at fucking last.

i used to sneer at 7 b/c it was so popular (doesn't everyone do this?) but it's got a shit-ton of interesting stuff happening too, especially involving the cities, the kabbalistic references, Jenova (nick land Outside, anyone?) and much more. there's really no point in getting too prickly when you have balls-out masterpieces like that. and the *music* oh my god the music

there used to be on youtube a really good version of the guitar hero cover of decisive battle by someone called killer dokko. i think it must have been taken down, or i'd include it here. anyways

pic rel is another one of these games that deals with themes that are quietly *really fucking interesting* but, because of the medium, they're overlooked.
>that apocalyptic ending tho
>horry jebus

ah, okay. that was an interesting conversation too!

>well, fou-lu is compelling because he's essentially this god being pestered by humans, and he's not necessarily evil in any sense, he goes through the weakness of being separated from ryu, who is another half of the Yorae dragon
yes. this is the stuff, isn't it? evil. it's complicated. good and evil aren't always black and white, but relative forces of being and becoming...

>Anyway, it's mostly interesting because you often play from his perspective, and people get wrapped up by the powerful flow of his aura, just as those who meet Ryu. I would say for chaotic evil monster, Kefka has him beat simply for his no nonsense betrayal, mockery, and the fact that he literally succeeds in transforming the world into a hellish wasteland. but for a villian that is only villainous in the sense that he is a central antagonist that has his own semse of purpose that isn't personal, but directly conflicts with the purpose of the protagonist.
*exactly.* this sounds great! exactly this kind of stuff. cornball evil is ridiculous (unless when, like the joker, it's way more complicated than it looks). but fou-lu's characterization is tied to the protagonist's in these ways that seem *way* more interesting than just Good Guy/Bad Guy. whatever the next emulation/console game i go look into is, it's going to have to compete with this one.

>i also wish i hadn't been such a minipleb and spent all that time reading instead of gaming
the gaming stuff really doesn't get less interesting. in a way, reading only makes you appreciate it more. and even then you'll only really absorb the reading if it's actually *more interesting* than games.

>minipleb

stealin dis. the apocalypse the frenchies always promised is not the end, user. keep reading.

>the legendary Bro-Fist of Figaro.

kek

Holy shit that thread is epic. I was obsessed with Ultima and its virtue system during the 90s. It sounded silly then, and silly now, but honestly its a decent moral system that fulfills the demands of the Platonic form of the good. Based /vr/. Good thread, put away your false modesty ya dope.

>the apocalypse the frenchies always promised is not the end, user. keep reading.
seconding this

>ultima
the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom is one of the greatest things ever. FF6 is my favorite game, but U4 is one of the very *best* games ever, i would say. not especially repayable, but because of what it is: a genuine literary statement. truth love & courage turned out pretty well for richard garriott
>says the unrepentant moralfag

the ultima games were also complex enough to allow for madness like this:
it-he.org/u7_drugs.php

>good thread, put away your false modesty ya dope
if you insist. that one really was good.

yeah, in terms what interests one in a game or a book, i hate to fall back on the idea, but it really seems like a shift in perspective as i've grown older. the things that interested me before, pursuit of power, defeating evil, finding friends, all of these things seem to have taken a backseat to more developed versions. pursuit of knowledge, defeating ignorance, (same thing in the end), developing lasting relationships with people, it's the value of various things that has shifted. aesthetics in writing is a hard thing to pass into a video game format, the style of someone's inner language, the depth of personality, train of thought, structure, all of those things make me feel closer to being a human and experiencing the lives and ideas of others. with video games there was a similar experience, but one hat rarely went further than an emotional response. sure i'll always think doing a suplex on a fucking train will be awesome, or going to an earlier area and using outrageously powerful moves on fuzzballs and slimes, you know the drill. but what ends up always driving me forward in games is plot, character development, themes, references, all of this so much better served in literature. i have to sometimes shift away from expecting fantasy, or sci fi, if i want something that feels overwhelming, something that feels genius, and that's okay. rubbing against genius is something i should have been doing my entire life. it sometimes feels a waste to remember say, what purpose the veldt serves in ff6, but not remember the latin words for the seven deadly sins. it's hard not to look back and feel that youth is wasted on the young not because they make stupid choices, but because the perspective gained with age would best serve a young body, the recognition of loftier themes. i dunno in the end. i'm just trying to build some sense of purpose, will, what have you. my life until now has seemed so pointless. still does in many ways. and i know that's the prototypical teenage angst line, but i've gone through that gauntlet coming out none the better over ten years ago! still struggling with a sense of purpose, wanting to fulfill my bored mind with.. well enough.

good shit user.

>rubbing against genius is something i should have been doing my entire life. it sometimes feels a waste to remember say, what purpose the veldt serves in ff6, but not remember the latin words for the seven deadly sins. it's hard not to look back and feel that youth is wasted on the young not because they make stupid choices, but because the perspective gained with age would best serve a young body, the recognition of loftier themes. i dunno in the end
yeah. this. me neither.

>my life until now has seemed so pointless. still does in many ways. and i know that's the prototypical teenage angst line, but i've gone through that gauntlet coming out none the better over ten years ago! still struggling with a sense of purpose, wanting to fulfill my bored mind
no need to rush.

how about this tho. if this image doesn't give you the shivers i don't know what. i had this as my desktop for a while. just when things were getting really, really shitty. because there's a point when you just want to go to that Fuck You I Don't Care If You're a Train place. one of my faves.

examples of this? or are you talking about memetomata?

no, i agree, but the level of escapism required has been kicked up a notch. i have to be reading a thousand page novel that has 35 references on average every sentence before i can forget about how much of a waste i've been. games only help me run so far anymore. the last rush i felt was when Moran's leg started getting stiff. As though Molloy were some kind of conceptual disease rather than a real entity. I just can't watch numbers rise when i could be wanking it to genius. the only things that really bothers me, are how many books i bought and now own that i have no intention to read now that i realized i have no desire to read non genius lit (thanks a lot soviet russian dipshits), i have so much waste pages that it's unreal. two, three dozen tops is the number of literary genius, i mean true blue genius. that's the other worry. what happens when i run out? i'm gonna fucking run out, man.

>I just can't watch numbers rise when i could be wanking it to genius
kek

>i mean true blue genius. that's the other worry. what happens when i run out? i'm gonna fucking run out, man.
you're not going to run out. just come over to continental theory land. trust me you'll never get to the end of that stuff. all you have to do is connect one guy on a deep deep level and that's that.

>then you can go back to wasting your life playing vidya but *this* time, of course, it's for the a e s t h e t i c s
>jk

seriously though philosophy is loads of fun. esp if you can avoid the trap of being a pseud about it
>protip: you can't
>at least not for a while
>by which i mean, people begin to kindly forgive you for having such a weird obsession that you kind of forget that's ultimately all it is
>anyhoo

but seriously you might consider into baudrillard or some other cool french theorist. virilio's a good one. that's assuming you haven't already, of course. nietzsche's worth a second read, a third read, an infinite number of reads, he's always good. deleuze i'm obviously over the moon with right now. get phenomenologized w/heidegger and then dephenomenologize later with some icy-cold land memes. so long as you can avoid ruining your friendships over politics it's fun as hell.

i wish i could resort to philosophy, but that is just the process of translating shit from stuff i don't know into what i do. i'm too hung up on fictional flights of fancy where authorial intent matters so little that he wasn't even able to see what he was writing while he wrote the damn book. i want to be blinded by fantasy, not so much reminded that i know things or that there are things to know or that things are unknowable and that i should have never left fiction. i might give philosophy a fair shake after i have fully exhausted all possible fictional geniuses. thank you for your supportive kindness. i do feel a kinship with you, we have pleasant conversations.

i was walking through my kitchen, check out this horribly ugly tomato i grew in the backyard. i don't even think i could eat this.

>i want to be blinded by fantasy, not so much reminded that i know things or that there are things to know or that things are unknowable and that i should have never left fiction.
i know that feel. top-tier fantasy, or any other literature > much second-rate theory. pic most definitely rel
>iirc gloriana was pretty good too, that dark shakespearian vibe
>and fucking ff6/ff7 - hell even 4 - provide such a comfy atmosphere they're better than a lot of books anyways

>i might give philosophy a fair shake after i have fully exhausted all possible fictional geniuses. thank you for your supportive kindness
coolio. and it's my pleasure ofc
>Veeky Forums: it's *everyone's* responsibility
>tfw you are now literally imagining public service announcements for a ugandan line-dancing board

>check out this horribly ugly tomato i grew in the backyard
no doubt that's one fucked up tomato. still tho congrats on the eco

i didn't mean fantasy in the genre sense, unfortunately i'm far too gone for that now... anyway, gonna jet, got to thinking too much and now i have to soothe with a dip in a frowsty book. you keep on bein you.