Justifying Suicide

I want to elucidate to myself and rationalize a justification for my suicide. I've been speaking to my only friend and on my other frequent boards about my feelings and I think what would be valuable to me right now is to more clearly describe why I want what I do and to discuss it with other people. I feel that I have insufficient reason to live rather than sufficient reason to die. I would really appreciate hearing other people's opinions on what point someone must reach before, in your opinions, suicide is acceptable.

Only you know

Might makes right

I know this is going to sound a little bit harsh but you are asking us to know the reasons what you should not do it? You are the only one who knows. Suicide can be acceptable or not as long as you decided to make a decision by yourself.

I'm not asking you guys to talk me out of it, I'm asking if you guys have any opinions on when it's acceptable morally. Maybe I phrased it too openly, maybe it'll help if I describe why I feel the way I do and you can tell me if you have any objections.
>always become frustrated around birthday, turned 25 this time
>realize I've ended up exactly where I thought I would be fourteen years ago
>I've never been happy
>I have no loved ones besides my friend, people are generally scared of me
>I have no passion or devoted interests
>education has stagnated and I have no belief in it
>I increasingly believe I will either never leave my home or end up homeless, like I thought as a child
>major depression has never relented since initial symptoms at 6
>I feel I am getting too old to have time for anything, that even if I was to dramatically turn everything around, too much time has been lost and I will never be able to do something valuable with my life or have a family
Basically, I think I'm at a point where my misery has always been predetermined based on my upbringing and circumstance. I'm at a point where there is no more chance of growth, happiness, satisfaction, or even meaningful reflection on life. I feel I'm totally and forever isolated from life. In my mind, if there is nothing material or spiritual I can make with my life then my only opportunity to really act on my own will is suicide.

You're life is just futile acts to avoid pain, and suicide would be just one more futile act. There would be no catharsis.

...

Even if there is no catharsis, there is release. If all our acts and dreams are futile, then release is just as valid a response as continuation. That's where the lifetime of misery is important to me. If I have truly never been happy, why should I continue to hope unless life has intrinsic value?

25 is still young. You have time to accomplish things but you need to get your depression under control so you can move forward in other areas of your life. Have you gotten any help with your mental health?

I've been suicidal since college.

It seems to me that I won't be of much value to any industry, including any artistic one, if I only enter it at thirty. Other twenty-five year-old men and women want nothing to do with a twenty-five year old that hasn't done anything meaningful in seven years. I've been to therapists, called suicide hotlines, taken medicine, it all frustrates me because it all requires you have something important to you to fall back on and I don't. I have nothing to be proud of and no one is proud of me. Nothing helps like if I was, again, predestined to early suicide.

Read Conspiracy Against the Human Race by Thomas Ligotti

If theres a good argument for suicide, then thats it

Could you describe it to me now? I will remember to read it, thank you.

This is what I was looking for.
There will be no true release just an unsatisfied will. Killing yourself is really a dramatic version of eating junk food,or working for the weekend. There ultimately is no release from wanting to feel better just futile attempts to avoid it.

You've bought into the youth culture ideology that the advertising industry has pushed but that's an economics rant for another time.

If you want to be a rock/movie/youtube star then yeah, I'd agree that generally they prefer younger people. There are always exceptions. In other arts, age is less of a factor than those that require public performance with marketing of your brand. What arts do you have any interest in?

I always feel shitty after birthdays and New Years because they're milestones and I haven't done much myself but I still have hope I can write my book. How many different meds have you tried?

That's very wise, I see your point. Suicide is an act of desperation and maybe that desperation precludes Will. Nonetheless, I feel I have dramatically less to live for than others and it is unbearable. It feels like I'm some sort of autistic monster, that people can smell how confused by them I am and they lash out. Not only do I have no idea what to do with people, they reject me immediately, before I can attempt to engage them. If I live like a hermit, how can I consider philosophy or myself without framing them around other people? It is no life to live that essentially alone.
I'm not that interested in arts. I just provided an example of something that is almost pure thought yet clearly, to me, prefers youth. I've been interested in writing and film in the past but it became clear to me that I had no natural lyricism for writing and encroaching schizophrenia makes my writing messy; I'm not the correct race or demeanor to make it anywhere in film. I've taken two meds, I can't remember what they're called, but they just dulled the pain enough to keep me from suicide rather than anything productive. I eventually decided not feeling what I might need to feel was more dangerous than feeling dangerous emotions.

Jump on the joe rogan train my friend, i don't know anything about you but a lot of people have done what i have done to help with depression, it's as close to a miracle worker as will ever be 100x better than any of those pills that make you an emotional zombie. Hur durr shrooms, yes shrooms has helped a lot of people with anxiety/depression including me, do your research, if you have done them and didn't like it maybe you weren't ready or in the right mind set or in a bad setting. I took shrooms when i was contemplating suicide and i figured, what do i have to lose by doing this, it shifted my consciousness pretty much and made me want to live for things. Shrooms will open up your mind and make you realize your own reasons for living without us having to list them for you. You're at rock bottom my friend only way is up.

I had a dramatic renewal of faith a couple years ago that did more for me than anything else in my life and my desire to live still eroded to this point. I believe my problem is that where everything to moderate depression requires focusing on the things you have, I have taken a sober look at my life and seen nothing. I describe my situation to others and they don't disagree. Without something nothing can help, like multiplying by zero. Besides that, I fear I'm too mentally unstable for psychotropics to be safe. Maybe it's silly to consider suicide and have fears, but I don't want to become raving or truly catatonic.

I don't know much about the film industry but I'm lucky that writing is an art where age doesn't matter.

Lyricism isn't as important as it used to be in this era of mash ups and 140 character limits. I also strongly believe that writing is a skill that requires practice to get good. Aside from the arts, there are sciences and fields that are begging for people to develop their skills in, that you could get the training for.

I've used mushrooms against depression and they've definitely helped. I hope this is the next drug that gets decriminalized because they're actually useful but I doubt it. (I'm really not a fan of Joe Rogan tho.)

What are some of these fields? Everything I read about, upon further digging, has a problem with a huge rush of people getting into it as the "next big thing" and not enough jobs to go around.

Do as you will if you are your own

There's still a need for all kinds of IT and health (physical/occupational therapy, physician assistant, pharmacy, anesthesiology), math, accounting, auditors, machinists.

I suppose. None of those are really interesting, but they're things. Does a person need to be passionate about something? Every time I do something I'm interested in something I lose interest.

happiness isn't a permanent thing and life would suck if it was. there's absolutely no insurance against bad moods and unpleasant feelings so just prepare yourself for the suck. like with drugs. and drugs. and dont feel guilty for taking them, that's important too.

I feel like a lot of people haven't found their passion in life and that's ok as long as they're content. For depressives like us, I think finding small pleasures keeps us going for another day, which is really a victory in itself sometimes.

I'm not published yet, far from even being done writing, but some parts of my job and the people there keep me distracted at least and make me feel somewhat useful

Read Ippolits A Necessary Explination from 'The Idiot'

Know that after all is said and done he still is able to find a reason to not kill himself.

I've had some really rough times mentally due to OCD where I felt like every second of the day was torture and finding peace of mind was just impossible. I felt like suicide was the only solution to my problems and while I never seriously considered it (wouldn't do that to my family) what helped me was to accept, at least temporarily, that I'll be living for those few happy moments. They happened for perhaps 30 minutes a day where I would forget about my OCD, they would happen when I appreciated a part of a book I read or I laughed about something a family member said or something I came across on the internet. So basically 90% of my day to day life was still very unpleasant, I accepted it and lived towards good moments.

Another thing is to realize and this is absolutely true: time heals. Every time I experience a new obsession it feels like my entire world collapses and I genuinely cannot think of a way I'd ever be happy again but it always fades, my brain always manages to provide me with new perspectives on how to deal with this OCD and depression.

fpbp

to me, suicide is the most valid thing you can do. you close the circuit then and there. it's a dead-stop so to speak

living life however is a process of continual validation. the living find meaning in living life because only life can give meaning.

when a person asks, "what is the meaning to life" they're really asking "who am i"

If you have the time to justify suicide then you have the time to sit down and question the ideas that made you think you should kill yourself.

In short: re-evaluate your values.

Are you saying I am Ippolit, making a show of my suicide attempt? Or do you implore me to be the Prince and hope I have inspired someone?
I can only come to the conclusion that my life is not worth living. That is my earnest evaluation of myself. Not only that, I do very much want to die. I'm only hear because I don't want to want to die.

Again, evaluate the base premises that lead you to this conclusion. You use factors such as age and acomplishments which honestly mean very little since everyone ultimate has different needs and times when they figure out what they truly want. You say you have no passion for things, why is that?

>there ultimately is no release from wanting to feel better
Except death, you know when your brain stops functioning and you stop feeling altogether.

From what I hear, your story sounds not that different from most of the patients I see in my clinic every day. I know things feel hopeless now, and they have felt so for quite a long time, but as you said yourself, there was a time when things were different. You say you've been on 2 types of medication, and while I agree that it's demotivating that both medications did not provide you with the effect you wanted, it's really not that unusual for someone to require several types of drugs before we find the one that's right for you. Maybe antidepressants don't cure your symptoms, but you could for example try atypical antipsychotics. And, of course, remember that no drug will ever be the 'cure' for your depression. What it will do, though, is open the door to a treatment that actually works. Medicine can open you up to treatment, a therapist should guide you in the right direction, but eventually it's up to you to find a meaning in your life. And as other anons have said, yuo're only 25, it's not like you're to late to find something you care about. Go back into treatment, find a drug that works for you, try therapy (perhaps 3d generation psychotherapy, dialectical behavorial therapy or acceptance and committment therapy) to stabilize, and then find a satisfying carreer. Does your job have to be your passion? Do you need to feel happy every single day? No. But even if what you do is not your absolute passion, you can still feel like you contribute to society, you can still feel validated and happy most of the time, and you'll find a reason to keep living.

>I want to elucidate to myself and rationalize a justification for my suicide.
So you want to murder yourself, but you also want it to be perfectly moral? Sane? What do you want it to be? Rationality is a tool, a flame. It does what you make it do. Leave it to its own devices and it will eat up everything.

I'm in the same boat, but all my justifications fall flat. It is immoral for me to kill myself. It is not sane for me to desire it. However, I do want to see it as the easy way out. You see, I am a lazy person, so this way I might do it one day. However, if I wasn't lazy I wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. Suffering and death are inevitable.

Watch those antinatalist youtube channels. You know, the guys who advocate suicide, but would never even think of doing it themselves? Those absolute legends.

Aren't those guys satanists of some sort?

I dunno, the ones I've only ever been exposed to were complete sad sack losers who should probably take their own advice. Never seen any satanism being explicitly espoused. That said, I can't say I have an extensive knowledge of the community. That dude with the long hair, who would scream at his camera about the most inane shit was the only one I ever watched more than one video of.

Assigning negative value to birth doesn't logically commit one to suicide, you stupid fucking mongoloid.

Alright Inmendham, calm down, lad.

what would make you happy really?
i'm turning 24 this year, i have no friends besides Veeky Forums, been depressed from 14yo (there was a guy in school who punched me, whip me with his collar, and treat me like shit in general and i've never was strong to fight back or say it was hurting me) to like 22 (when i finally accepted i had to find my own meaning for this existence), never french kissed a girl, when i was young people said i looked like a psycho and it took me 5 and half years from college to college to find what i really liked (which is programming, also the uni is free in my country), i center my life around this thing and i'm not even good at it, i started programming at 23yo... besides all that i believe i live a good life, definitely not good on the eyes of others but i found my own definition of happiness, which involves passing through this life completely alone, i put no pressures on myself, if i fail as a programmer its ok, as for fail being an extroverted guy thats i already took for granted

Jesus Christ of Nazareth walked the desert for 40 years preaching nothing but good. For that, he was crucified.

Find something to die for and die for it. If you are going to go, do not make it a meaningless death. Only when you have changed the world for the better...Then you have my permission to die.

I mostly use my extreme existential isolation and complete disinterest in living as my premises, the age and accomplishments just confirm my feelings of helplessness. I have no passion for things. Everything I've tried to develop a passion for in my life leads to intense anxiety, like sleeplessness and retching anxiety. The only times I'm remotely comfortable are when I'm wasting my time.
I never said things were different. I've felt this way since I was old enough to have complex judgements on life at all. My leap to faith was a small change that only ended up changing my perspective, not my choices.
I'm at the point where I believe suicide is a sane option to the situation of my life. The morality is something I would like to discuss. I want to discuss these things because this is the most serious I've been about anything my entire life and this will either guide me to other options or galvanize my resolve. The biggest change recently, rather than just an inventory on my life, is my realization I put no value on my life. I've wanted to die all this time and after twenty years of being told things can get better I am tired of waiting, hoping, or trying. I will either die or fundamentally change, one or the other will come soon.

Personally I wouldn't commit suicide as it's an insult to the people who didn't get to live life. I feel people will always have a similar amount of happiness and sadness in their life time no matter their situation. I would recommend doing something you enjoy and focusing on that, stop thinking of other people as their thoughts and opinions should only help you decide what you want to do, not tell you.

As someone that actually suffered a mental breakdown, shit like this really offends me. I never attempted suicide, but I felt the full pull of the voice in my head telling me that it was time. It wasn't something that I trained myself to think in a book.

Never acceptable.
Fight me nerds.

>I feel people will always have a similar amount of happiness and sadness in their life time no matter their situation.
Well get some better feelings, you inconsiderate prick.

people who haven't lived can't experience insult you dingus.