Why didn't Satan just apologize to God?

Pride.

God knew he wouldnt because, being God he knows that man is a sinful being, man would fuck up and he would have to be punished and he needed it done brutally and without impunity. The whole play is a beautiful smirk in Gods face. Imagine the scene, knowing exactly as the dice will fall, like rewatching a chess match, seeing the pieces move in a ballet of conduction and determination, both free and determined. The real question remains; Why does God create a sinful being who is assured to suffering? What purpose is there in the proof of a being to prove determination and free will in the exercise of one act over another? Why does God choose man to this drill? And what is the purpose of this drill?

he was tsundere

Why wouldn't the pharoah let moses free?
Cause God's a tyrant and thinks that we're stupid enough to fall for his 'lmao free will' explanation.

God has never created anything evil, to say he did would be blasphemous, in the beginning everything was righteous and perfect. It was by man that sin and death entered the world. God knew that his perfect creation would fall into imperfection but that doesnt matter much for the following reasons;

1) Our current universe may be the version out of possible universes that contains the least amount of suffering.

2) foreknowledge of an event does not cause that event to happen.

3) ignoring everything else i doubt any sane person can say they honestly wish they never existed.

On the contrary, who are you—mere man that you are—to talk back to God? Can an object that was molded say to the one who molded it, "Why did you make me like this?" -rom 9:20

>ignoring everything else i doubt any sane person can say they honestly wish they never existed
So little boys and girls who are burning in hell screaming for their mothers don't wish that they didn't exist?
Or perhaps they're just too young and innocent to have that thought come to their minds.

>Why does God create a sinful being who is assured to suffering?

Perhaps we flip it. Perhaps what our experience in the world conjures, more than anything else, is suffering and pain. Perhaps the inevitability of pain is the heart of creation, and God is infinite pain. So the truth is that we who have assigned the name God as it that is responsible for the question of questions "where did the world come from? Was is created?" is an assignment out of due of pain and suffering, and not love of knowledge or reflective contemplation.

>What purpose is there in the proof of a being to prove determination and free will in the exercise of one act over another?

Perhaps it is in ourselves that we would like to be reminded as proof that we can choose one act over another. Like a infinite loop the story reminds us to remember our freedom and the possibilities that can lead from one choice or another and that these possibilities have a value of desirability and that most importantly you can sway certain factors to you favor and the degree to which you can sway things to your behavior have no limit meaning you can have anything you can do. The story of God is really a reminder that actions have consequences, and you care about consequences. Yes you do. Yes. You. Do.

>Why does God choose man to this drill?

It is man who writes God to create this drill, and like any author to his story he is a God and his story is a story only a God would invent.

>And what is the purpose of this drill?

The drill as story is a gift bestowed to all the ungrateful needy children around the sleeping world.

Because god decided he shouldn't. all these suckers who think satan isn't yet another mechanism of god's will, as though he has the ability or power to outwit the omniscient omnipotent being himself? what a joke. let's be honest here. is literally toying around with meat sockpuppets and having them rush about and die, wondering about their own existence, if we're merely a piece of god, a fragment of him that is all, then let us ponder for a moment the scope to which he lay privy. it is unimaginable that the book in which we all rest is not consistent enough to include satan and all of his plotting, the greatest gift given us is the illusion of our own volition. so subtle that it doesn't even matter if we have it or not.

Why is it blasphemous to say God created evil? How could man create evil without it being embedded in its nature?

But for the sake of argument, lets go along with your theory. Why then does God let evil continue to exist? If god is all powerful and all good, he should be able to stop evil before it manifests.

>relying on the vast inconsistencies of the heavily edited and committee crafted bible for information about a lore-god
it's almost like you never once thought outside the box in your fucking life.

Because Satan isn't a cuck

Lol im not sure why the beings in hell have to be 'little' or 'screaming' for their mothers. Perhaps this is a meme meant to play on the heart strings of the evil Christians, ignoring the fact that if God exists everything he does is objectively morally good. Or perhaps this is just a common misconception of what hell is like.

The bible makes it abundantly clear that everyone in hell awaiting the lake of fire has been made aware of God and subsequently rejected him.

Also at this point from what ive read i am not 100% on board with the idea that souls are tortured for eternity in the lake of fire. It seems to be the case that they simply cease to be after a period of time.

>I don't think that would've worked out well
Real reason is satan's pride, God is literally all about forgiveness

he's not broad enough a mind to decide that god is limitless in his ability, and that he can contradict himself without succumbing to a violation of human logic because he be that which is all.
human interference is the most dangerous obstacle during interpretations of tetragrammaton.

If you are truly looking for an answer to that question. Take 5 minutes and 32 seconds to watch this well thought out answer.

youtu.be/wtx5GyP7i7w

>he watched william lane craig, the gumby of apologist rhetoric
lord.

also, you should be ashamed for relying on an argument so impotent as "well, god simply has a good reason for raping babies!"

i prefer to assume that human logic is quite literally incompetent to even begin to face the potential axiomatic arguments that may rise from the actions of humans within His creation. being imperfect entities, we who deign to impose our own faulty systems on god are doing nothing but insulting the glory of he who is.

Agreed! Men with their 3 pound brains assume to know better than an infinite being. It is beyond arrogance, it borders on the retarded. I just have to remember that most of these people are being decieved and know not what they say or do.

>God is literally all about forgiveness
Lol. Read Matthew 12:30-32, Luke 12:8-10 and Mark 3:28-30. He's NOT all about forgiveness.

IKR? It is much better to stay quiet and not to question. To resign into submission.

It is much easier to bow and kneel than to make critical thought.

"Ignorance is bliss" ; Tis the way of the humble pleb.

ah, a fellow, though perhaps acidic dripping with irony, but that dire hope, ah.
hey. shall we marvel at the paradise not in temporaneity, but rather in eternal salvation, that cusp of human right, that epicentre of moral gain? nay, i say fie to reward, dash pascal's wager, no reward is equal to my groveling at the feet of he that is almighty, dash the siren call of gold where greed anathema, bah.

I don't think angels get to follow the same rules as us. I don't even think angels think or feel like we do.

>Because God as he is described in every text that I've ever read about him, did not deserve to be apologized to.
*tips*

Read the Gnostics, God's not doing this to us

Because Satan didn't do anything wrong.

Perhaps not. Nonetheless it's applicable almost every day.

Satan knew that even if he apologized he would return to be being miserable under the yoke of God and eventually rebel again. Hence the famous quote "better to rule in hell than serve in heaven". Satan also knew that his apology would not be genuine and therefore worthless.

It's genuinely frustrating to see these threads all the time that are filled with questions, the answers to which would be obvious if you would just read Paradise Lost. JUST READ IT! It's amazingly beautiful and a cornerstone of English literature.

...

>So little boys and girls who are burning in hell screaming for their mothers don't wish that they didn't exist?
What the fuck does this cruel garbage fantasy have to do with Christianity or the Bible?

i think that milton was intending satan's reasoning to be flawed though...

Some people are just dicks and can't admit when they're in the wrong.

I like the idea of evil being the absence of God similarly to how darkness and cold are the absence of light and heat. Is there writing that counters this well?

This kind of thinking is common among abuse victims.

>christian theism can deal with the fact that the entity that has given them nothing but pain will eventually stop if they just smile genuinely enough

This is beyond absurd. A Mind closer to Oblivion than the Atheist one.

Fedorable

It's better than appealing to emotion like you're doing now. How does anyone even define evil in a universe that wasn't created by God?

You may be overlooking the key possiblity here, that this Universe may be the Universe, out of possible universes, that contains the least amount of suffering while also allowing human beings to have free will. As Craig pointed out, the Atheist would need to prove that there could possibly have been a universe with less suffering while also containing key factors such as free will. Which would be largely impossible and purely speculatory. Perhaps God is aware of that pain and suffering is a inescapable consequence of giving humans Free Will. Perhaps one of the things Christ came to do on this Earth was to not only save us from sin but also to be a role model of how we should act in the face of pain and suffering as he did so courageously. Most of this comes down to people assuming that they know better than an infinite or people trying justify the unbelief that they already have.

k whatever there Pangloss

None of this addresses the evidendial POE and skeptical theism collapses into global skepticism and mental retardation, next.

Foreknowledge of the event does cause it to happen if you're God, because when you created everything, you knew the consequences. Ever heard of 'God Wills It'? Nothing can happen without God willing it to, therefore he created 'evil'.

Also, free will is either an incoherent or an impossible (Strawson's basic argument) concept so the higher order goods defence is moot. The atheist doesn't need to prove shit, the theist is making the claim that my instance of toothache or the suffering of generic farmer#47285 due to the plague that no could treat back then has either a metaphysically necessary connection to some overriding good that's not free will or is metaphysically necessarily my/his lot because God literally couldn't create the world any better. The question of why a perfect god would degrade the prior state of affairs by creating anything is another puzzle no theist has answered successfully.

He wasn't sorry

>3)
are you retarded or just sheltered? what is antinatalism?

I'm not overlooking anything. I was alluding to God the Father and Creation being Evil. What is the threshold of suffering past which you will reject this entity? Refusal to consider this and refusal to consider rejection is a concession that said entity is indefinitely evil - Evil itself. If you have identified your threshold though, ask yourself why is it where it is and why can't it be a notch lower, and then ask yourself why can't it be a notch lower still? Keep lowering it and then finally ask yourself if there is any point in any suffering at all and any reason to submit to any entities that exert it upon you.

God described himself.

>The question of why a perfect god would degrade the prior state of affairs by creating anything is another puzzle no theist has answered successfully.

They have answered it though. Because he's Evil.

The problem eternally is that all prescriptions like this are made by a human being. Everything said and written is by humans. There is no universal good and evil.

>Hart’s primary interlocutor is Ivan from Dostoyevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov. Ivan gives voice to the most challenging rejection of theodicy that there is, much more cutting, profound, and troubling than that uttered by any God-hating New Atheist. Ivan believes in theodicy, he believes that in the end God will show us why all this evil was necessary, that God will show us His work when it comes to the moral calculus of allowing so much evil and suffering, and it will all make perfect sense. All that being true, Ivan will still respectfully return his ticket to heaven, because he wants no place in a heaven that was purchased with the blood of innocent children. He wants nothing to do with a God who in any way needs such evil. Ivan damns the god of theodicy to his heaven, the cost of admission is too high for him to accept it in good conscience. And we Christians must do the same.

What's Evil?

>For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Divergence and its wheel of phenomenal results onto which your mind is broken - quantity, emergence, objects, and so on.

He considers it but also knows God isn't exactly the 'forgiving' type. Why he thought he could usurp an omnipotent force, I dunno. But he did fuck up God's new creation in the face of the loss of a third of his angels. It basically goes like this: God btfo Satan who btfo Eve and Adam when he saw how retarded she had been eats the fruit too in a noble act of sacrifice so she doesn't have to endure the consequence alone. Then the Son of God (he's not jesus yet, just one powerful spirit) says he'll go down and die for them so they can come chill in Heaven after they inevitably die because they ate the fruit that God forbid and warned would kill them.

Its really a lot more poetic than that. I'm ashamed of that summary.

God would destroy the regardless

What makes this reckoning any more valid than reckoning otherwise?

>God would destroy the regardless

Care to elaborate

>There have been many that have said
>that death is like a deep sleep
>but it is not peaceful and it is not restful
>and the ones that have told you this
>seek only to make themselves feel better
>better about what life is
>but I do not care for your feelings
>because your feelings are meaningless, completely
>and utterly
>meaningless
>weightless.
>Death is a great horror:
>immediately upon leaving the body
>the deceased human being becomes the sole spectator
>of a marvelous panorama of hallucinatory visions
>all things became the cloudless sky
>and a mountain of clearest glass
>opens up from the blackness
>and punctuates the air above it with it’s fingers
>and causes pure death to rain towards him
>and there are no words to describe
>what it is truly like
>you cannot know it
>it as if god himself
>had bled out onto the ground
>and everywhere, everywhere
>is the stain of it
>we are soaked in it
>and it all smells of copper
>but this is false!
>it is a spectre
>it is a phantom
>anguish of a writhing spirit
>reflected against the purest backdrop of nothingness
>because, oh, the death of a god! the pain of his blood!
>that would give meaning.
>But there is no god in death!
>you will not see him, you will not find him.
>god is deathless.
>what use does god have for death?
>that father of all things
>what use has he for a broken toy? what use has he for the shattered vase,
>the broken vessel?
>what use has god for death?
>and what use has god for the dead?
>when you die you pass out of god’s realm.
>you pass from his sight.
>and the spirit stays
>cocooned in the glass mountain
>wrapped in those beautiful un-lights
>until, whispered into his ear
>those cold, nothing words
>shudder downwards in a spiral
>and, like earth spinning into water
>broken apart into pieces unlimited in number
>their very force causes deep lines of fracture
>to appear in the very face of the mountain
>those awe sounds and radiances
>first pitch upwards
>rising screams and calls
>and then finally cease altogether
>the silence echoing everywhere
>lingering in space
>and through every time
>and the visions of the Afterdeath stop
>and in one clean perfect moment
>of absolute, impenetrable nothingness
>everything simply
>stops.

Reminder that this is the likely reward of God the Father.

I dunno where you pulled that shit from, but I'm thinking your ass. Its definitely not in Paradise Lost.

>i doubt any sane person can say they honestly wish they never existed.

Your doubt is misplaced

@9859159
>Trying to outsmart the most perfect being to ever exist beyond your limited comprehension of reality

Because he wasn't sorry.

Everything evolved out of nothing.

Yeah, that explains it.

Well done.

Why would God pander to a small minority of his children who have rejected him and wish they had never existed?

We all say stuff we don't mean when we're emotional.

Would not a father wish for all his children to accept him?
Would not a benevolent being wish for all to believe in him to save them from the misery and suffering he will bestow upon them as punishment?

'cause god would have been a cunt about it so he didn't bother

>Because God as he is described in every text that I've ever read about him, did not deserve to be apologized to.
he's pretty unambigiously good in Paradise Lost, and Satan constantly bemoans himself for being too prideful to do just that and apologize to God. He may have begun with good intentions in liberating the rebels angels but his campaign against Eden was purely destructive and fueled by revenge

But that's fucking wrong though. If it wasn't, Jesus wouldn't have come and none will go to Heaven.

Great answer, but keep in mind that while people consider hell a punishment, it's also God giving you what you wanted the most: His absence.

Though that doesn't mean He doesn't love you because He does. Not even hell can break that.

Because he was the imperfect attempt of god to recreate himself.
That's the lesson. God can't create perfection, as he is the only perfection.

Then again this is all BS and you might as well ask how Cthulhu was fucked up by being bumped with a fishing boat.

How do you expect to be forgiven if you continue to reject God and His forgiveness.

Dude what? I don't understand your point. Nowhere do the cited scriptures mention "rejecting his forgiveness." They seem pretty straightforward to me.

God always forgives as long as one sincerely asks for forgiveness. How about actually reading the passage along with the context?
>Matthew 12:30-32
Here, the blasphemers claimed that the miracles Jesus did was given to Him not by the Holy Spirit but by the devil. That also means that they committed another blasphemous act by rejected everything the Holy Spirit gave them: forgiveness. And since they continue to reject this forgiveness because they don't believe, then how can they be saved?

>You're god, you don't get bored.
of course god would get bored, why create the universe to begin with if he wasn't?

Who ever said that god had a choice in the matter?