Your thoughts on this book? Is Holden likeable or just a whiny bitch?

I hated this book, skimmed most of it after realizing 30 pages in that it sucks.
Holden is likeable, but he's a whiny bitch and of course I relate to him. Everyone does.

>Heartwarming
Can't agree more, I love chapter 11. I want to hold Jane's hand.

Holden was molested as a kid, has trauma after seeing the suicide of James Castle, and had a nervous breakdown after his brother died. He's a very troubled guy, not your average sadboi

Can relate to an extent, I wasn't technically molested but lost my innocence far too young. What I believe happened is that my friend was frequently molested by his older brother and so my friend always wanted me to play a 'special adult play game' with me which we did once. Was 6 so I didn't understand what we were doing and cried myself to sleep still not realizing what had really happened. It could've been worse but I felt like I was taken advantage of and know that I would've been a different and more whole person if that would not have happened.

>I wasn't technically molested
>Describes what sounds exactly like molestation

Who is this she looks a lot like my girlfriend?

allie dont let me disappear

I liked him because I can indentify with him.
Most people don't like him because he's whiny and a hater. But they haven't realized the fact that he was molested as a child and attempted suicide by slitting wrists and ended up in a mental hospital after his brother died.
That's indeed what's wrong with society. They judge before exploring.

Add another vote for whiny bitch. Terrible book as well.

Hardly likeable, but relatable. So I guess that means I don't like myself. :(

I liked it but the rape scene went too far for my tastes.

He is an edgy teenage hypocrite. I do mot dislike the book, because it captures the mind of a struggling "holier-than-thou" teen pretty well, but Holdens character is insufferable for that very reason. If you read that book and can associate your current self with him, you need to grow some balls and become a man. If you read the book and feel nothing but shame because you also used to be like that, that is perfectly normal and you actually have nothing to be ashamed of because you already have that one in your past.

Why is hedonism so bad?

I integrate hedonism with mindless pleasure which rarely has an effect on permanent nor long lasting happiness.

It doesn't progress nor does it conserve anything. It's completely useless and wastes a life.

>wastes life

So "contrib00tin" to society isn't wasting the single life you have in this reality?
Every hour not spend at the pleasures oneself has are wasted and only to the benefit of the pleasures of another.

It inevitably leads to disappointments, leaving you with nothing but wasted time. Many people say good memories are the things which count, but they are obviously wrong. Good memories do not pull you through when your current life is shit, they hurt you even more at best.
But do not mistake pursuing cheap thrills for pursuing pleasure. If it is your goal to provide yourself with a long-lasting source of fulfillment, you are already beyond hedonism. It is the impulsive, animalistic and reckless behaviour for the sake of the moment that defines hedonism and always leads to destruction if that kind of behaviour is your imperative.

>long lasting happiness.

I never ever met anyone who has that shit.
I love how this meme is as old as the dawn of man, this "lasting happiness" crap.
All "lasting happiness" means is a less stressful existence. Which can be achieved without doing all that self-sacrificial nonsense.

Why do you equate not being hedonistic to being a slave to society? Nobody said that you shouldnt live for yourself, but you should live for yourself with purpose in mind. If contributing to society fills ypu with pleasure there is nothing wrong with pursuing goals which accomplish exactly that. You hedonists are like edgy children who reject everything that might benefit them just out of spite.

Purpose is completely random.

The lasting happyness revolves around being content with yourself and what you do, you are literally unable to achieve that by pursuing short-lived pleasures like some animal, because you are a human with extended desires. A human needs security, he needs appreciation and self-fulfillment through achieving set goals.
Someone once said that every tower you build up in this world will crumble one day, but a tower built in your mind is eternal. It is pretty much what all of this is about, a man with purpose will not be defeated by something insignificant to his goal. A hedonist crumbles in the moment where his animalistic needs are not satisfied.

It is. And?
Hedonism stems out of a lack of purpose, that is why it goes hand in hand with nihilism.
>inb4 hedonism is my purpose
And dying is the end goal of my life I guess, does not make it reasonable though.

>I'm going to spend my days having sex with or watching porn of people I don't love, read shitty fiction books and turn my brain off for mindless entertainment like HBO's Game of Thrones because I don't want to be slave to society!
Yes, this is how you revolt and correctly live your life instead of actually accomplishing something, to conserve the world your ancestors built and to progress it. Cheap thrills makes you a slave to society you moron.
Philosophers like Mills do not mean that long lasting happiness is to be in constant bliss while you're smiling and jumping around. It's to be proud of your own life and what you have done with it, you have built something that gives you happiness. Hedonism makes you regret your life and will give you a later stressful existence which is very ironic.

This book is actually a bit of litmus test for me regarding whether people like it or not.

I read it later then most people probably do (aged 26), and although I couldn't relate to him as much as I would have in my teen days, as I gradually realised how broken Holden was over the course of the books, I felt pretty ashamed of judging him off the bat. I thought the ending was pretty moving actually, and its a very humane book in that it made me re-assess whether I am right to make such immediate judgements (as most adults in the book did).

If you want a quick dose of rage, read the reviews on Amazon. So many people just cannot stand Holden.

Purpose then is also a random narrative you've concocted yourself to ease the stress of being you.
Most of humanity seems incapable of having a life they're satisfied with unless there's this overarching cupola of the spook they're following everywhere.

I don't have a purpose. I just go on the waves of desire and fate.
What I was 5 years ago, I'm not today. When I feel shit, I disagree with all I said when I didn't feel like shit. And vice versa.
You do too, man of 'purpose'.

Both. He reminds me of me when I was younger and I love him.

Why should I care about a bunch of dead people their achievements?
All they were in for was just the love and regard of their neighbour.
Oh yes, you're all going to be writers and still be happy and satisfied if no one even bothers reading your shit. That's how beyond the care of the other you are.
They, like you, did it because they were a bunch of egoists themselves, but told themselves they also had higher aims. No such thing.

>Cheap thrills makes you a slave to society you moron

Not really. I get shit from society for acting this way. You're exhibit nr. (...)

>It's to be proud of your own life and what you have done with it

And for me that isn't venerating my ancestors like some fucking Mandarin, you Lauren Southern thirsting uggo.
I'll look back at my life and be like "fuck yes, I did it, I won, I gorged it all, I wasn't even afraid of God."
Your supposed selfless nature is a huge fake and it shows when you interact with people.

My comment wasn't about venerating, looking up to and achieving things in life for other great, dead men Like Washington or Marcus Aurelius and what they built but to conserve it, and most importantly build upon it, making it both your own and achieving your own goals so the next generation learns from you. You do it because of ego yes, but short bliss and hedonism will only leave you with nothing.
Going your own way without any kind of god or a strong philosophy in life leaves you with emptiness and starts to put civilization in chaos like we're currently seeing now and if it continues it will fall.
Do you not want to expand our shared knowledge, work hard, fight wars for what you believe in and maybe one day explore the stars finding answers. It won't be in your lifetime but we have to conserve and progress for humans ever getting there.

>implying your "greater happiness" isn't just advanced hedonism

I first read this when I was 13. I re-read it three times within the next year and it really fucked me up for some reason. I really liked it, but I just started to fucking hate everything. When I was 15 I tried to kill myself and wrote my suicide note on the first page of the book. It said, "It's nobody's fault. I just did it for personal reasons." I thought that was pretty funny. ended up in the ER within 15 minutes from electrocution, but the fuse blew and I lived, just got knocked out. I still have that copy of the book. Anyway I think it's a good read, I was just an angsty fuck.