Pet Debate

>Alright folks, do you believe other animals have the same intrinsic worth as human beings?
Yeah
>Is killing them for their meat and resources morally correct?
Yeah
>Should we value their life as much as we value the lives of our brethen?
that's the question, isn't it? As far as I see it, they can feel pain, so we shouldn't hurt them. But we're animals and we're omnivores. Our "obligation" is to procreate and survive- so eating meat is completely within our right as an animal, just like it's their right as animals to attempt to kill and eat us. It's what's unnecessary that's morally reprehensible. Skinning animals alive, poultry farms, etc, etc. I think the humane treatment of animals shouldn't be a debate, but I also think that humane treatment and eating them aren't mutually exclusive.

that sounds like some new age mambo jambo no offense

so what I get here is that since it's a survival of the fittest scenario, we can kill them for meat

but is it really nescessary to get their meat to survive? Vegans prove otherwise, no?

What do you think the phrase 'your body is a temple' implies? It's not hard to realize what reality truly is.

Well, and what tool do you use to rank those " divine spirits" ?

Obviously felidae

"In its flawless grace and superior self-sufficiency I have seen a symbol of the perfect beauty and bland impersonality of the universe itself, objectively considered; and in its air of silent mystery there resides for me all the wonder and fascination of the unknown." -lovecraft

God > angels > men
Done

"Matter does not know the difference between minds"
Your question doesn't make sense. There is only one divine spirit.
"All forms are all ideal."

I understand the admiration, but what is your answer to the question?

I see, so this is a theological argument? I do remember the passage from the Bible.

So, if all forms are equal killing them is bad ,right?

I don't really consider it survival of the fittest, but more that, we are above them in food chain, so we have the right to eat them or not eat them as we see fit, but we should have the moral imperative to treat them right anyway, just like we should treat those weaker than us kindly as well.

I would like to insert another question in the debate. Most of the arguments here is that killing them is good since it's for the advancement of our own species. But here comes another question: The chinese are right in killing dogs? They use it to feed themselves.

To live is to convert energy forms. Something must be destroyed to live. To eat and ingest out of necessity, only, bears less burden on the mind. What was done must be done. To kill for sport or convenience is unjustifiable.

In the Bible it also mentions that we should cae for God's creation even though animals can be considered lesser beings.

>do you believe other animals have the same intrinsic worth as human beings?
From whose perspective? From our perspective the answer is always no.
>Should we value their life as much as we value the lives of our brethen?
Depends on who. Mostly no.
>Is killing them for their meat and ressources morally correct?
Some people don't have a choice but to eat meat and various tribes who need the fur of the animal to keep themselves warm. I'd only see a problem with it if it's some cunt who hunts for sport, because using a rifle to shoot a stationary animal makes you a man.

So... it's like an equation? You only destroy to create life? Some sort of balance?

Yeah it's fine, we just think it's bad in the west because we view dogs as pets.

Are you putting any real thought in on your end? A tiger kills a gazelle because if it doesn't, it and it's cubs will die. A man eats a double cheeseburger from McDonald's because it sounds good. One was necessary, one was convenient. I didn't quite say balance, but balance is quite peaceful. No excess, no lack of.

Eating meat is fundamentally immoral. I still do it but asking if meat is moral is a retarded question, its at best borderline.

>Alright superhuman homo deuses, do you believe homo sapiens have the same intrinsic worth as us superhumans? Should we value their life as much as we value the lives of our brethen? Is killing them for their meat and resources morally correct?

>Keep it civil. No telepathic doxxing pls.

Think about it from this perspective

Eat all animals.

what is your argument?

I'm not sure if I get your point

Not that guy, but if you don't get his point, I feel like you're definitely not 18, and that this is for a homework assignment.

There is no reason for a human to want to eat meat other than selfishness or ignorant habit. There are other foods just as pleasing and nutritious, that don't require a sentient creature's death. Factory farms aside, killing game animals for sport is purely sadistic, and no longer a relevant means of gathering food due to scarcity of wild animal populations. Regular farm practices are only marginally better than factory farms, with casual cruelties (branding, separating unweened newborns, cramped conditions) being inflicted on animals at every opportunity.

That's an interesting point. I think the problem here is proving that meat is not necessary for our health. This topic seems to be still uncertain.

humanity wouldn't survive if everyone became vegan, everyone would be low test and beta cucks so bye bye birthrates

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

There is nothing in meat that can't be provided from a plant. People have practiced vegan and vegetarian diets for thousands of years. The only 'uncertainty' you're picking up on is from insecure people who are unwilling to admit that being vegetarian is a perfectly fine health practice. If you think that an elephant can subsist on an all plant diet, but a human can't you're a complete imbecile. Gorillas and Chimpanzees have an almost completely vegan diet, other than occasionally eating some grubs or small invertebrates. There is no evidence to support the superiority of plant protein to animal protein for a human diet.

Not everyone is a Christian. That's just a bunch of fucking tautology. There is no God, so I don't need 'his opinion,' either way.

do you have evidence for this?

so why people don't just stop eating it?

I guess we should just fight forever about our arbitrary opinions instead of accepting each other as we are. You don't have to be a Christian to understand the wisdom of that verse.

>There is no evidence to support the superiority of plant protein to animal protein for a human diet.
I meant the reverse of this, but I suppose either statement is true.

not him but if he believes in God ye it makes sense fpr him, but obviously we are looking for an argument that doesn't depend on another one ( God existing )

>instead of accepting each other as we are
We might as well just stop trying to educate anybody, or have debates about ethics altogether then, right? Also, just because Paul didn't think this issue was important, doesn't mean it's not important. He was just as nitpicky and bitchy about his own pet ideologies.

Even though eating meat is necessary to a genetic strategy its no more moral than rape that is performed in pursuit of a genetic strategy.

>beta cucks

I'm sure you really put a lot of thought into this response and are familiar with animal rights literature.

Fuck off back to your /pol/ echo chamber, normie

That's disputable, especially if you consider humans higher than animals

See

Show me this superhuman

I don't, that's a purely abrahamic notion.

So you think the ancient pagans believed animals were equal to humans?
What about the Chinese that were mentioned above in this thread that eat dogs?

>show me this superhuman
>probably implores the flying spaghetti monster argument
>mfw

I've been to China, if you go to one of the massive markets in Beijing you see everything. A guide told me "if it has none, or four, or eight legs we will eat it!"

Same trip, I ate a lot of bugs/insects, they're pretty good actually

>what about savages and people who callously ignore and walk around people in distress?

what about them? They are assholes lol

I'm just showing that it's not just an abrahamic notion

nice literature discussion

>do you believe other animals have the same intrinsic worth as human beings?
Well let's start by looking at different animals. Octopodes are really intelligent and actually have a culture. Some even have something you could call a garden which they keep in order an live in. Elephants, I believe, are similar but I forget what kind of culture they have. Does this make them less or more valuable? Hard to say. Especially when you look at dogs who have a deep relation ship with us. Sadly, I'm stuck here because I'd have to define what makes life valuable and I can't really do that. I just believe that it is valuable and I have no reason to assume an animals life is less valuable.

>Should we value their life as much as we value the lives of our brethen? Is killing them for their meat and ressources morally correct?
Yes, and to explain I will steal a thought experiment I heard from Richard David Precht.. Let's assume there is an alien species which is much smarter than us. Their art is way beyond us and in general as a culture they are far more developed than we are. I mean this to the same extend in which we are superior to animals, so for the sake of argument we could say that even their language is much more developed than ours in such a way that our language sounds like a very primitive way of communication (like we see the warning cries of animals to be communication, but far less developed than ours). Would I think that it is justifiable for them to eat us? No. Why? Well I don't want to be eaten. However, when we say that we are so much more valuable than animals there has to be a determining factor that makes us more valuable and in the same way those aliens would be more valuable than us.

Now we could say that once a species has reached a certain amount of value then it would be illegal to kill or eat them. However, as I cannot define such values, unless I arbitrarily say "you have to be at least as intelligent as humans". I don't see this as a valid procedure and therefore object to eating and killing animals.

The ethical concerns aren't so much about animals as ethical subjects but rather of us as ethical agents. How we treat others, determines who we are and what we are likely to do.

That's the reason you are suspect of children and people who rip out the wings of flies or burn ants after a certain age. Much more so if a kid is actually torturing animals. Even if you don't care much for the animal, it gives you a solid red flag.

The entirety of animal rights can be argued for without ever mentioning animal ethics. Or barely at least.

not Veeky Forums you fucks
sage goes into every meal

It is in this day and age for people with a sense of morality

Then why do people of every religion including atheists eat meat

why do Christians have sex out of wedlock? People are generally poor at following their principles when immediate appetites conflict.

>do you believe other animals have the same intrinsic worth as human beings?
No. I can ponder about what am I, look at a mirror and recognize my reflection. I can improve myself and my species with an active input by me, without waiting for the genetic selection to kick in.
My dog is a very good dog. She woof when she hear a potential danger, she's polite with other dogs and humans, I enjoy walking her also she's very sweet. But she's still a dog. We humans are animals but also something more.

>Should we value their life as much as we value the lives of our brethen?
Depends. If humans don't behave like humans and waste their potential (not learning, not improving, aka the standard wageslave that seeks catharsis through sports watching) I would argue that a good animal is more valuable than a bad human.

>Is killing them for their meat and ressources morally correct?
Yes, the animals live in a dog-eat-dog world. When we kill a cattle we're doing the same thing a wolf would do.
Causing them suffering is fucked up though, since they can feel pain and fear.