/clg/ - Catholic Literature General

Last thread: Atheists and members of other Christian denominations are welcome to debate theologuy, faith, etc. But please keep it civil.

>"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" -- Matthew 18:20

Recommended reading:

>Biblia Sacra Vulgata
>New American Study Bible
>Further recommendations pending review

Other urls found in this thread:

aristotelophile.com/current.htm
goodreads.com/book/show/19179772-the-catholic-church-and-salvation
dailycatholic.org/issue/08Jul/jul7str.htm
mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/theory-of-baptism-of-desire/#.WbmxDMh97IU
youtube.com/watch?v=Jf_MTKpL7OM
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Add these on the thomist list alongside the Summa Contra Gentiles and Theologica
Reginald Garrigou Larange (the most important figure of the neo-scholastic movement and a personal favourite, incredibly hard headed and systematic offering a magnificent defense of classical metaphysics from everything up untill, including Hegel, sadly ignored most contemporary developments so never wrote on WIttgenstein)
Jaques Maritain (democratic thomist, a very mid line thinker who never goes into extremes)
Etienne Gilson (original interpreter)
Frederick Copleston (a fantastic historian of philosophy)
Anthony Kenny (not a thomist, but wrote a lot about him)
Alasdair MacIntyre (easily the most interesting figure in ethics and political philosophy, as well as being the reason for a revival of aristotelian philosophy within the academia)
GEM Anscombe (a student of Wittgenstein and his friend, the only woman in the academia he respected, notable for her ethics and writings on her teacher)
Peter Geach (not a thomist per se, but drew heavily from him)
Edward Feser (the best contemporary figure when it comes to educating people about Aquinas and defending him)
David Oderberg (very important in epistemics and ontology as well as ethics)

Aw dang. Just realized I misspelled theology in the OP. My apologies, friends.

Can you recommend books based on my current Catholic selection?

Ignatius Bible: RSV2CE
Compendium by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
Homer: Iliad, Odyssey
Readings in Ancient Greek Philosophy (Hackett Publishing)
Augustine: Confessions, City of God, On Christian Doctrine
Boethius: The Consolation of Philosophy
Beowulf
Summa Theologiae by Thomas Aquinas
Divine Comedy by Dante
Geoffrey Chaucer: Trolius and Criseyde, Canterbury Tales
More Quotable Chesterton (Ignatius Press)

aristotelophile.com/current.htm

English translations of scholastic theology and philosophy including some hard to find texts.

Anyone /lapsed/?

I grew up Cradle Catholic. Went to Catholic School. Baptized, reconciled, eucharised, confirmed, etc. Lost faith after transferring to public school. And reaching puberty and wanting to masturbate despite forbiddance probably didn't help much either...

Fell in love with a hippie hipster chick in college. She got me into philosophy and drugs and premarital sex. Three bad habits I am still trying to kick. We were together three years. But our relationship lacked teleology as neither of us believed in marriage or children or truth or God...

Funnily enough, studying philosophy made me appreciate the faith more. Albeit in a perennialist or universalist or pluralist way. And then I did too much acid one summer and had some sort of Phillip K. Dick-esque "gnostic" (schizophrenic) experience which pretty much convinced me that Christianity is pretty much all true and correct, at least on an ethical leve. Not that that's really epistemologically valid reasoning but I'm just being honest...

Anyway, I moved back home after college and started attending mass with my Mom (Dad passed away a while back). I have not received communion yet and am scared to confess my lengthy list of sins... but also scared of eternal damnation when I get paranoid sometimes...

I feel like I am not good enough. I still smoke weed. I drink. I smoke cigarettes. I like to do hippie stuff like yoga and meditation. I like to read esoteric and occult authors. I feel I am a heretic because I did not have a traditional mystical experience from the divine but rather something more akin to an episode of drug-induced psychosis with brief flashes of insight, something I am not sure I can fully trust, and perhaps I am fooling myself into returning to my cultural tradition because I am a traditionalist and it's the easiest and most appropriate and acceptable way for me to fill that void of defining structure and tradition in my life...

Anyway, I just feel like I'm going to be excommunicated or something if I confess my full sins and heretical beliefs...

I'm not going to hell, am I?

Not sure what I'm hoping to achieve with this blogpost. Wish me luck, I guess... or pray for my soul or something...

Read the Aeneid after the Odyssey, it's a must read before Dante. Book VI is Inferno before it was cool.

There are scholars that also say the Aeneid influenced Beowulf, BTW.

I'd add Catechism of the Catholic Church so you have a reference work you can always go back to in case you're lost, it's a very practical tl;dr of Catholic doctrine, and The Girard Reader which gives you a Catholic perspective on topics not too many Catholic theologians cover like a general theory of desire, the function of scapegoating, etc. and defends the uniqueness of the Bible in its ability to teach us on those topics.

Forgot to mention I actually have Aeneid, Georgics, and Eclogues as well, but thank you. The compendium is a concise catechism. I'll check out The Girard Reader, as the more obscure stuff does interest me.

Learn to love sobriety, and search for that which is the cause of misery. Once you find it in yourself, learn that which is the only true source of redemption and salvation in this mortal life.

Your excommunication can only come from for example comitting an abortion. Just go to the confession, the state of mortal sin is far worse than the awkwardness of telling your sins to someone else. People in the state of mortal sin go to Hell, but confession returns you to the state of grace. Maybe try to find a good confessor, usually there's word on the street/online who is good at it.

Sobriety is tough... I get wicked depressed when sober.

What is the source of my misery? Probably lost love or lost time or lost innocence. Hence my searching for redemption and salvation in God and the Church.

Thank you for the reassurance. I will go this weekend and report back if the thread is still around.

>lost love, lost time, lost innocence

These are symptoms, not causes.

Anyone here read aquinas? Thoughts?

(Part 1/2)Recommended Reading:

>New American Bible (Revised Edition)
>Douay–Rheims Bible

Theology and Basics of Catholicism
>Adams, Karl – The Spirit of Catholicism
>Bouyer, Louis – Spirit and Forms of Protestantism
>Catholic Church – Catechism of the Catholic Church
>Guardini, Romano – The End of the Modern World
>Guardini, Romano – The Lord
>Hahn, Scott – Rome Sweet Home
>Kreeft, Peter – Christianity for Modern Pagans
>Newman, John Henry – Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine
>Newman, John Henry – Parochial and Plain Sermons
>Ott, Ludwig – Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma
>Pieper, Josef – The Four Cardinal Virtues

History and Culture
>Belloc, Hilaire – The Great Heresies
>Belloc, Hilaire – How The Reformation Happened
>Belloc, Hilaire – Survivals and New Arrivals
>Carroll, Warren – Christendom I: Founding of Christendom
>Carroll, Warren – Christendom II: The Building of Christendom
>Carroll, Warren – Christendom III: The Glory of Christendom
>Carroll, Warren – Christendom IV: The Cleaving of Christendom
>Crocker III, H.W. – Triumph
>Dawson, Christopher – Christianity and European Culture
>Knox, Ronald – Enthusiasm
>Leclercq, Jean – Love of Learning and the Desire for God
>Walsh, William – Our Lady of Fatima

Holy Men and Women
>Chesterton, G.K. – St. Francis of Assisi
>Chesterton, G.K. – St. Thomas Aquinas: The Dumb Ox
>Day, Dorothy – The Long Loneliness
>John XXIII, Pope John – Journal of a Soul
>Merton, Thomas – The Seven Storey Mountain
>Muggeridge, Malcolm – Something Beautiful for God
>Newman, John Henry – Apologia Pro Vita Sua
>Suarez, Federico – Mary of Nazareth
>Trochu, F. – The Cure of Ars
>Wegemer, Gerard – Thomas More: A Portrait of Courage
>Weigel, George – Witness to Hope

Literary Classics
>Alighieri, Dante – The Divine Comedy
>Benson, Robert Hugh – Lord of the World
>Bernanos, George – The Diary of a Country Priest
>de Cervantes, Miguel – Don Quixote
>Eliot, T.S. – Christianity and Culture
>Endo, Shusaku – Silence
>Hopkins, Gerard Manley – Poems and Prose
>Newman, John Henry – The Idea of a University
>O’Conner, Flannery – The Complete Stories
>Percy, Walker – Lost in the Cosmos
>Percy, Walker – Love in the Ruins
>Sienkiewicz, Henryk – Quo Vadis
>Tolkien, J.R.R. – The Lord of the Rings
>Undset, Sigrid – Kristin Lavransdatter I: The Bridal Wreath
>Undset, Sigrid – Kristin Lavransdatter II : The Wife
>Undset, Sigrid – Kristin Lavransdatter III: The Cross
>Waugh, Evelyn – Brideshead Revisited

>I'm not going to hell, am I?

no one here has the authority to tell you you're going to hell or not.

(Part 2/2)Recommended Reading:
Spiritual Classics
>Aquinas, St. Thomas – My Way of Life/Summa Theologica
>Augustine, St. – The City of God
>Augustine, St. – Confessions
>Catherine of Siena, St. – Little Talks with God
>Chesterton, G.K. – The Everlasting Man
>Chesterton, G.K. – Orthodoxy
>John of the Cross, St. – Dark Night of the Soul
>Lewis, C.S. – Mere Christianity
>Lewis, C.S. – The Problem of Pain
>Lewis, C.S. – The Screwtape Letters
>Oursler, Fulton – The Greatest Story Ever Told
>Teresa, Bl. Mother – Meditations from a Simple Path
>Teresa of Avila, St. – Interior Castle
>Teresa of Avila, St. – The Way of Perfection
>Therese of Lisieux, St. – Story of a Soul

Spiritual Reading
>A’Kempis, Thomas – The Imitation of Christ
>Aumann, Jordan – Spiritual Theology
>Baur, Benedict – Frequent Confession
>Baur, Benedict – In Silence with God
>Boylan, Eugene – Difficulties in Mental Prayer
>Boylan, Eugene – This Tremendous Lover
>Burke, Cormac – Covenanted Happiness
>Chautard, Jean-Baptiste – The Soul of the Apostolate
>de Caussade, Jean-Pierre – Abandonment to Divine Providence
>de Montfort, Louis-Marie – True Devotion to Mary
>de Sales, St. Francis – An Introduction to the Devout Life
>de Sales, St. Francis – Treatise on the Love of God
>Escriva, Jose Maria – Christ is Passing By
>Escriva, Jose Maria – Friends of God
>Escriva, Jose Maria – The Way, Furrow, The Forge
>Escriva, Jose Maria – The Way of the Cross
>Faber, Frederick – All for Jesus
>Garrigou-Lagrange, Fr. Reginald – Three Ages of Interior Life
>Liguori, Alphonso – The Great Means of Salvation and Perfection
>Liguori, Alphonso – Uniformity with God’s Will
>Louis of Grenada, Venerable – The Sinner’s Guide
>Lovasik, Lawrence – The Hidden Power of Kindness
>Manzoni, Alessandro – The Betrothed
>Martinez, Luis – True Devotion to the Holy Spirit
>More, St. Thomas – The Sadness of Christ
>Perquin, Bonaventure – Abba Father
>Rohrbach, Peter – Conversation with Christ
>Scupoli, Lorenzo – Spiritual Combat
>Sheed, Frank – Theology and Sanity
>Sheed, Frank – Theology for Beginners
>Sheed, Frank – To Know Christ Jesus
>Sheen, Fulton – Life of Christ
>Sheen, Fulton – Three to Get Married
>Tanqueray, Adolphe – The Spiritual Life
>von Hildebrand, Dietrich – Transformation in Christ

Miscellaneous
>John Paul II, Bl. Pope – Crossing the Threshold of Hope
>Masson, Georgina – The Companion Guide to Rome
>Monti, James – The King’s Good Servant but God’s First
>Rice, Charles – 50 Questions on the Natural Law
>Sertillanges, A.G. – The Intellectual Life
>Stein, Edith – Essays on Woman

It's me, the OP from last /clg/. Opinions?

Is there any books I can read about religious pluralism/inclusion/exclusivism in terms of salvation? I've always struggled with understanding how some 7th century Chinese dude would go to hell no matter what since he hasn't heard the gospel. But I'm not sure how this ha been addressed historically by the Catholic Church.

It's a common misunderstanding that because there is "no salvation outside of the Church," it necessarily means that if somebody isn't baptized or haven't heard the gospel they can't find salvation. See CCC 846-848

Daily reminder that if you accept the Novus Ordo church you are not catholic.

I recommend "Outside the Catholic Church There Is Absolutely No Salvation" by Peter Diamond.

Baptism of desire is a false doctrine and a valid baptism + catholic belief are necessary for salvation.

...

Yeah because when I want to know what the Catholic Church believes my first stop is a book written by a Lutheran.

bump for later

Add the list of thomists, Gene Wolfe, novels from Chesterton and you are good.

Are you retarded? Peter Dimond is a member of the Most Holy Family Monastery, a sedevacantist catholic monastery. The book is a comparative study of the magisterial dogmatic declarations with the arguments commonly made for baptism of desire.

He's a heretic all the same. Why would you think any believing Catholic would find him persuasive? Him and his whole family are nutjobs.

This is your source

>According to Michael Cuneo, who researched the various traditional movements in the USA, Natale claimed that he had the gift of prophecy in these words:

>Even before Vatican II was finished, I knew, and knew absolutely, that it was part of a Communist conspiracy to destroy the Church. The bishops at the council wanted to democratize Catholicism, they wanted an egalitarian theology, and most of them were secret communists and Masons. They knew exactly what they were doing. My community here was the first one in the United States to see the council for what it really was, and we rejected it completely.

>Regardless of what you have been told, John Paul I did not die of natural causes. He was murdered. Shortly after his election "I went into a kind of trance" and was told that John Paul I would be murdered because he wanted to return the Church to its traditions. He was murdered by his own. The Communist infiltrators in the Vatican and the College of Cardinals, working together with the Masons, killed John Paul I. At the same time I also had a vision of John Paul II, and I was told that he would be the next pope and also that he would be an authentic pope, even though most of his actions would be controlled by Communist advisers and manipulators in the Vatican.

>Five years [from 1994] is about all the time the world has left.

dog penis

goodreads.com/book/show/19179772-the-catholic-church-and-salvation
Pre V2 generally accepted and praised, still popular with the trads, but not doing the insane no salvation foe those who could never have even heard of Catholicism.

He's no heretic. It's funny that you and the rest of the followers of the conciliar church call sedevacantists protestant-like when it's your antipopes that say protestants are members of the Church of Christ, that they can be saved without converting to catholicism, and that even made a joint declaration on justification.

You can read the book and find by yourself, after all he bases his arguments on the magisterium, unlike you that turn your head the other way when confronted with clear contradictions between the pre and post-conciliar magisterium.

How is that my source? Regardless, what is said about freemasonry there is absolutely correct, it's funny that you know nothing of church history to think there's no such correlation. Just read fucking Henri Delassus.

Read this. It's a direct response to the book.

dailycatholic.org/issue/08Jul/jul7str.htm

>Doesn't accept the legitimate pope
>Catholic
The council of Florence necessitates subjection to the pope for salvation lad, you can't choose that there's actually no pope if you don't like what's going on.

>it's a post that just says dog penis

>How is that my source? Regardless, what is said about freemasonry there is absolutely correct

On this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Except for here and there.

Still better than sedevacantist posts.

Why is it insane? Are you basing its insaneness on your own moral judgement or on magisterial teachings?

Here's a short refutation of baptism of desire:
mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/theory-of-baptism-of-desire/#.WbmxDMh97IU

That's beside the point. There have been around 40 anti-popes in history. The possibility of heretical popes has been addressed in church history since Paul IV extending to the 1917 code of canon law, all affirming there's no need for a declaration before considering a cleric heretical.

You are right that there is a need for complete subjection to the pope, the question to be asked is that if they are actually popes or not. Try to inform yourself instead of basing your arguments on your shallow background.

It would mean that God created men for no reason other then to suffer eternal punnishment in Hell. It's basically Calvinism. I've read the text before and it's garbage, selective and reductionist.
>The council of Florence is requiring submission to the pope
>But not really if you call him the antipope
Sedevacantism is an insane cult, on the level of Calvinism. Much like to them it's just a cosmic dick measuring context.

Your moral judgements are null. In case you don't know, the magisterium is the proximate rule of faith, morality comes from god and can be understood through reason, but it can't negate church doctrine. You need to base your moral judgements on doctrine, not the other way around.

All of us have original sin, so we are not exactly innocent when it comes to salvation. The article uses dogmatic teachings, if you can provide an argument that hasn't been already refuted you can say it, calling it garbage, selective and reductionist isn't going to convince anybody.

Pope Paul IV's bull says that a heretical pope can be refused before any declaration, even if he is accepted by all cardinals. There's a reason the magisterium teaches how to identify a heretic. Thankfully, before the second Vatican council there was uniformity in doctrine, so there was basically no need for it, but it was already predicted that Rome would lose the faith and that at the final days there would be basically no faith on earth.

You can put the discussion away, it's what most people do because they are catholic on the basis of community life, not faith. Just don't expect to be saved in your conciliar cult.

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you based anons

I'm not sure if there should be a "literary classics" section. There may be Catholic themes in them, but that doesn't mean you learn much about practicing the actual faith. For example, you include Don Quixote but not Shakespeare even though Shakespeare had Catholic themes in Hamlet (purgatory). I also object to the inclusion of C. S. Lewis' writings on Christianity since he was an Anglican.

For the list, you need authentic works written by Catholics about practicing the faith. The majority of these books do meet that criteria, but labeling literature such as poetry, novels, etc. as Catholic is misleading. For example, Hemingway rarely makes these lists even though he was baptized as a Catholic in adult life because he was not a "good Catholic" like Flannery O'Connor, though there are plenty of Biblical references in his work;—just look at the title The Sun Also Rises! Straight from the Big Book!

On the other hand, an author such as Shakespeare has plenty of Catholic themes and imagery in his work (Catholic priests, purgatory, Italian settings), but he only occasionally appears on these lists because he was, on paper, a practicing Anglican (let's not open that door as to whether he was a secret Catholic or not because we'll never know for certain).

tl;dr I don't mean to be a killjoy, but I think works shouldn't be included on the list just because they have Catholic themes. The list should be more about Catholic theology, doctrine, and practice with an emphasis on introduction. The rest of us who know more about the faith can just debate and talk about the top shelf stuff such as Aquinas.

Should I go to a catholic bible study lads? The Bible is one of my favorite books and I always love to discuss it but I get really turned off by people being too touchy feely bullshit about it

HTBC's response to James White

youtube.com/watch?v=Jf_MTKpL7OM

Thou cuck of the mind

Just dropped by in this thread to recommend the Bible

I have a feeling Catholic or Mainline Protestant Bible studies would be better than most!

>GENERAL

The Bible (Ignatius Study Bible Recommended)
The Catholic Catechism

>accepted English versions of Bible

NABRE
Douay Rheims
RSV

>THEOLOGY

>novice

Introduction to Christianity by Joseph Ratzinger
The Last Superstition by Edward Feser
The Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton
Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton
Mere Christianity
CATHOLICISM by Robert Barron
Outlines of Moral Theology by Francis J. Connell

>intermediate

Scholastic Metaphysics by Edward Feser
God: His Existence and His Nature by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange
Natural Theology by Bernard Boedder
The Spirit of Medieval Philosophy by Etienne Gilson
Against Heresies
City of God
Christianity for Modern Pagans
The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church

>advanced

Apologia Pro Vita Sua
Summa Contra Gentiles
Summa Theologiae
On the Incarnation
The Didache
Divine Names by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite

>SPIRITUAL LIFE

>novice

The Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales
Story of a Soul by St. Therese
The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton
Nihilism - Fr Seraphim Rose

part 1/2

part 2/2

>intermediate

The Interior Castle
Spiritual Exercises by St. Ignatius
Dialogues by St. Catherine of Sienna
True Devotion to Mary
True Devotion to the Holy Spirit

>advanced

The Cloud of Unknowing
The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross
The Desert Fathers
The Philokalia
The Ladder of Divine Ascent
New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton
The Imitation of Christ by Thomas Kempis

>MEMETICS

Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World by Rene Girard
I See Satan Fall Like Lightning by Rene Girard

>HISTORICAL/BIOGRAPHICAL

Rome Sweet Home
The Long Loneliness by Dorothy Day
After Virtue
Christendom I: Founding of Christendom
Theology and Social Theory by John Millbank
Ethics and the Limits of Philosophy by Bernard Williams
Life of St.Anthony by Saint Athanasius
Life of St Francis of Assisi by Saint Bonaventure
Silouan the Athonite by Archimandrite Sophrony
The Autobiography of St. Ignatius Loyol
The Formation of Christendom by Christopher Dawson
The Dividing of Christendom by Christoper Dawson

>FICTION

Don Quixote
Diary of a Country Priest
The Divine Comedy
Paradise Lost
Silence by Shusaku Endo
A Canticle for Leibowitz
Faust
Les Miserables
The Canterbury Tales
The Man Who Was Thursday
The Brothers Karamazov
A Man for All Seasons
The Pillars of the Earth
The Lord of the Rings
The Chronicles of Narnia
Lord of the World
Parzifal
Joseph of Arimathea: A Romance of the Grail
The Arthurian Cycle
Quo Vadis

What happens if you got in a car accident on the way to confession and died? Would you go to hell?

What do you think?

No clue, I'm not Catholic. That point always seemed silly to me though.

No, it would be in effect a Baptism of Desire. They would be baptized all the same.

I'm not talking about baptism, I'm talking about going to confession if you've committed a mortal sin.

I'm 20 minutes in and this imbecile hasn't spoken a single word on the Epistle to the Romans, fuck this Reddit shit.

Okay, now I've finished it.

>multiple meanings and usages of the word kόσμος in Johannine writings
not answered
>"Where did you get 'Called' that is not 'Predestined'?"
not answered even though it is the central issue at hand
>Romans 9
not answered
>Ephesians 1
not answered

Utter waste of time/10, never post this idiot again.

If you had decided to go to confession you had already repented in your heart. Confession is basically a formality, not to say that it isn't essential despite that.

>type a lengthy response
>computer shuts down to update
>lose everything

I'll summarize again. I'm sorry for the wait and sorry for misunderstanding that you were actually speaking of confession. It's late here.

The point of confession is to forgive your sins entirely. Not simply to the head of the Body of Christ (God), but to the body as a whole as well (the community at large) as sin is an affront to both. The form of confession is to give a space for both of these to occur at once while providing assistance for amending the situation/alleviating guilt via penance.

You should seek both. If something comes up that keeps you from doing one despite you wanting to it cannot be said you are immoral and would be in Hell.

Do not look at it in a penal sense.

>Tone is all over the place
>Style can either be really stiff or be kinda poetic
>Major characters are really inconsistent
>Big bad guy is not actually all that bad, only kills like 10 people
>Main character is kinda cool, but doesn't show up until the third act and he dies really quickly
>Pacing is confusing af
>WAYYY too much exposition in the first act. Like, entire chapters dedicated to lineage. Not even Tolkien was this bad
>Final act really drags on until last chapter
>Last chapter is actually really trippy but kinda cool
>All these random side characters we only meet for a little bit start showing up and are only used once
>MC comes back (are you fucking serious)
>Ending resolves nothing

The Bible by God is a 5/10 at best. Is the anime any good?

The best

Cute blasphemy, user. I'd suggest you follow in the words of Ice Cube and check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Is there a tournament arc?

Don't get mad at me because God can't write a consistent character to save his life. He should have created an editor instead of just self publishing

>get mad

No need to try to bait me user. My comment was for your sake.

This is an excellent improvement upon the list. Thank ya, Mr. Wolfsheim.

By the by, know any good bets I should make?

In what way? The Bible is poorly written. I don't get the hype, and frankly, I haven't seen a movie adaption that I've liked either

Save your money next World Series, champ.

The Bible isn't a single text, user, and your understanding is that of an Evangelical's. Not only do you not actually know what you're talking about but you continue the sarcasm with the intent of insult so to troll. It's not good for you.

Garrigou-Lagrange is extremely hard, and God His Existence and His Nature is not an intermediary read. It's a superb work, but 800 pages of dense metaphysics should be read if one holds rather specific interests.

>Hurr Durr if you shit on my favorite book you're a troll

Seriously? Face it: it's poorly written, incoherent, and I have serious doubts about the authors actual authorship of the text.

I really do think you've made a vast improvement, all kidding aside. I wrote the rather lengthy post here I appreciate that you also have tiers to guide reading because throwing a huge, random assortment of books to be read without any guide is a mistake.

I recommend all future Catholic threadmakers to incorporate Wolfsheim's list.

>Anime St Teresa of Avila
Please do not do this.

>refusing to even read correctly

Just sad

Duly noted. Will move to Advanced after looking at it again.

To be clear, however, I'm not the OP. I did not do the list you responded to in your post you link me to. I did read over your post, however.
Thank you, user.

Aww no, user. It can't be stopped now. We have cosplaying saints now. Thank anime.

David Oderberg and Elizabeth Amscombe deserve to be on the list as well, anti utilitarian ethics and the best works on essentialism deserve to be there.

>>>/goodreads/

>only now realize I have no Amscombe on my list
I will update the list tomorrow.

Modern Moral Philosophy by Anscombe should be read before MacIntyre, it's the paper that restarted virtue ethics.

It's what helped MacIntyre, but he is the chief reason why it is back. Most people probably read him prior to Amscombe (found about her because of him) and it would not be a mistake to read him first.

Some user wrote this shit on /adv/ and it's been bothering me, I know that this thread is mostly related to christian Veeky Forums but I'd be glad if one of you could refute what he's saying.
It was a thread about seducing religious girls saving themselves for marriage.

>So my.point being, we are all human, we are all subjects to succumb to our temptations when in the moment. Good luck OP. If a god did exist and wanted to save sex for marriage then they shouldn't have made it feel so damn good to begin with.

>Sure you might say, "Well if it didn't feel good no one would do it." But if people are willing to stop themselves from having sex before marriage for religious reasons than they sure will be willing to have sex while married for the same cause.

I intend to have them on the same tier.

A major part of the Christian life is the rational control of irrational desires. This is expressed by the "freeing yourself from vice".

>If he didn't want it to happen he shouldn't make it feel so good

Entirely misses the whole learning to control your passions thing. Instead becomes a slave to vice.

As MacIntyre woul put it, he willfully fails as a rational agent.

>catholic

>implying the majority of catholics don't listen to tool while dropping acid and staring at alex grey paintings

I actually have work soon so Ill just post the proof before I have to leave. I'll reference a classic one and give it a modern structure: Aquinas' First Way. Made in the potentiality/actuality distinction, just as he did it.

1. Causation exists.( Empirical Premise)

2. Act and Potency are classic terms we can use to explain causation: When something is in Potency it has the capacity to become something else, but is not it yet. A fertilized egg has the potency to turn into a chick, an unfertilized egg does not. When a potency is realized, it is actual. To actualize a potency is to take a property that something had in potency and make it actually inhere in the thing. The same thing, in this case, for things within an instant. While they are simultaneous they are still essentially ordered. An example of this is a coffee cup suspended by a table. Every instance this is occurring the table is actualizing the coffee's placement.

3. When we find an instance of causation in the world we find some potency being actualized in that same instance.

4. Something that is only in potency cannot actualize anything.

5. For some potency to be actualized something actual must actualize it.

6. If A is actualized by B, then B must first be actual.

7. Either something must have actualized B from being in potency to be in actuality. Or B is either necessarily actual, having never been in potency before. ( A v B)

8. If the left disjunct “A” is true then premise 7 applies to a new cause C.

9. If disjunct “B” is true there is a “first” uncaused cause that is pure actuality.

10. If disjunct “B” is never the case then there is an infinite series of actualizations. And we can apply 7 to C, then to a new cause D, and so forth. With every being having its actuality derived from another being.

11. If “10” is the case then there can be no actualization, as every being in the series has its actuality derived from another being, but there is no being with actuality on it's own to derive the actuality from.

12. If “10” is the case there is no causation

13. There is causation ( from premise 1)

14. Premise “10” is not the case.

15. If premise 10 is not the case, then at some point in the series “9” is the case.

16. There is a first cause, which is a being of pure actuality.

I can help you if needed.

...
Welp. Wrong thread.

Just copy paste Feser

Yeah but what created God?

How do you explain the difference between an accidental and an essential causal series? In my experience it's one of the most misunderstood things about the argument and I'm trying to learn it well enough myself so I can explain it to others.

In what case is the end result (pure actuality) still relevant to causation?

Well you see the examples in premise 2. The first is accidental, the second is essentially ordered. The quick way I summize it is one is causation through time and the other is sustaining causation - causation in a moment in time.

>literally at the point that I can copy/paste myself now instead

Well you might go to hell, but you could also just confess the things you regret. It might make you feel less like shit, but also if you have a really long list, it's still only going to be ten hail marys. I've done some shit, and priests don't want you hanging out for 98 rosaries. Have you ever heard of someone coming back the next day to finish penance? No. Not even for murder, let alone yoga.

And God's okay with drugs leading him to you. That's why Revelations is like that.

the appeal of sex in marriage is having children with someone who will stick with you and the kids even if you lose everything, become a cripple, and love you like they promised God they would. it's a different thing to masturbating inside someone, though that's nice too.

Does anyone have read non-Catholic theologians?
I personally enjoy David Bentley Hart quite a bit.

I am implying most Catholics worship something that is not God.

I love this thread. It's so much better than the hostile rank threads.

I've only read some of his polemics with Feser and if there are two things I cannot stand it's divine personalism and the belief that hell is empty/doesn't exist. DBH has both.

>Revelations
>s
This is like Veeky Forums's version of clip/magazine.

Any good anti-Islam books that aren't fedora-tier?

New Christian here.

Finished this today. Thought it was a great start. Any recommendations for follow ups?

The Qur'an.

Has anyone here read this esoteric spiritual heavyweight?

The Closing of the Muslim Mind

De Rationibus fidei by Thomas Aquinas

>GENERAL

The Bible (Ignatius Study Bible Recommended)
The Catholic Catechism

>accepted English versions of Bible

NABRE
Douay Rheims
RSV

>THEOLOGY

>novice

Introduction to Christianity by Joseph Ratzinger
The Last Superstition by Edward Feser
The Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton
Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton
Mere Christianity
CATHOLICISM by Robert Barron
Outlines of Moral Theology by Francis J. Connell

>intermediate

Scholastic Metaphysics by Edward Feser
Natural Theology by Bernard Boedder
The Spirit of Medieval Philosophy by Etienne Gilson
Real Essentialism by Oderberg
Against Heresies
City of God
Christianity for Modern Pagans
Intention by Isabelle Anscombe

>advanced

God: His Existence and His Nature by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange
Apologia Pro Vita Sua
Summa Contra Gentiles
Summa Theologiae
On the Incarnation
The Didache
The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church
Divine Names by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite


>SPIRITUAL LIFE

>novice

The Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales
Story of a Soul by St. Therese
The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton
Nihilism - Fr Seraphim Rose

part 1/2