Complains about the decline of culture, the family, tradition, morals and hard work

It is funny to think that communism and fascism were both reactions against democracy/capitalism.

"this causes that" sociological theories are fucking retarded.

DUDE, I DON'T ACT AS THOUGH THERE ARE CAUSALITIES IN MY DAILY LIFE, LMAO

It is also funny that you think that democracy equals capitalism, you fool.

>this doesn't cause that
>Everything is a spontaneous isolated event

You're mixing capitalism with democracy. It's not the same thing. You ether have capitalism or you have socialism, and the latter failed every single time it was attempted, so you're out of choices really.

>You ether have capitalism or you have socialism

Shut up, moron.

>You either have capitalism or you have socialism
>and the latter failed every single time it was attempted, so you're out of choices really.

>sociological theories are the same as individualised daily life.
You are fucking retards.

>Causality isn't a thing when I don't want it to be

Linear causality is baby-tier.

I look at a lot of stupid shit on Veeky Forums all the time, but this post is an unusually stupid one. So have a (You).

>what are mixed economies

You are aware that all the greatest ages in human history were achieved under total and free capitalism?

Greek golden age; independent city states, free trade, ritualised warfare
Italian renaissance; city states, free trade, ritualised warfare
German renaissance; highly independent states, free trade, empiric control over warfare

Capitalism is fine as it is, it being curbed by laws, social policies, and copyright and patent schemes, is the problem.

>This post

t. Child Sex Slave Salesman

DUDE, ALL OF THESE COMPLETELY DIFFERING SYSTEMS WERE CAPITALIST, LIKE, ALLOW ME TO COMPARE CITY STATES WHERE CITIZENS AND SLAVES EXISTED WITH MERCANTILISM AND MONARCHICAL SYSTEMS AND ARGUE THAT THEY WERE ALL FREE TRADE AND USED THE SAME MONETARY SYSTEMS LMAO

>Anti-authoritarian
>Anti-religious
>Classical Liberal
>Capitalism with small restrictions
>Complains about the destruction of family,tradition and unity
Hypocrite

No wonder you're all broke. Plain economics are too much for you.

Mixed economies in use today are all totally and completely capitalistic by nature, they're just systems that embraced free trade and disguised it with few social incentives to fool the gullable, to kept communists at bay. They were important in the post ww2 era when communism was dangerously at bay in the post war Europe, with very strong undergrounds in Italy, France and even Britain.

And yes, socialism is dead. China has capitalistic economy, but I see that's again too much for idiots here.

Prone to economic stagnation

Look at canada's economic history, nigger. They are drowning in oil, land and other valuable resources and are fucking floundering

Moron, there are more economic systems than Capitalism and Socialism which is what you stated.

no they're mixed by definition. how can they be "totally and completely capitalistic" if they contain elements of both systems. surely you can't be this retarded

pretty much every western economy is a mixed economy, funny that out of the top 5 highest GDP countries there is only one that isn't mixed.

How do I turn against capitalism? Take out a bunch of loans and don't pay?

>"capitalism destroyed traditionalism"
>most anti-capitalist leftists deride traditional values and institutions as "reactionary" and want to replace them in the name of progress
Someone explain this to me pls

What the fuck are you even posting there? You're not even aware that pretty much every single economic system mentioned there is dead, or theoretical? What you have now is capitalism across the world, Cuba, North Korea, and completely nothing else. And it was the same in history. Merchantilism is capitalistic system. Feudalism aswell. Only one that is fundamentally different is socialism, it's the only one that dispersed the power.

Here's what I'm doing.

>take out 50k for undergrad degree
>50k masters
>50k another masters
>hit loan limit
>do PhD so loan still in deferment
>get PhD
>kill self

>

>socialism disperses power
The government apparatus itself holds enormous power in socialist governments. EU officials make tons of money and receive special access to institutions that normies don't get. Soviet apparatchiks often got to sleep with any prole's wife

north korea is a facist state

fascism is not a reaction against capitalism. it's tricking the masses into supporting it. Nazis began as a conservative labor party.

It's a scholarly definition. Pure capitalism is a theory that never existed. And most (and all current and past) mixed systems are only names for practical capitalism. Then you have some theoretical mixed systems that do cross the line, but were not talking about them here.

You guys are seriously taking what's written on wikipedia without a grain of common sense.

teen thread

It disperses it in theory. What happened is that revolutionary communists found themselves with all the power in their hands not knowing what to do with it, with all the ones that knew economics distrusted, somehow out of the country, or even, surprisingly, dead, so they did what they thought best, and they failed.

In a socialist government there has to be a body capable of collecting and distributing wealth, usually by force. How is it possible for power to be dispersed in a system that dependent on a centralized authority?

We can't keep blaming man's ideas for man's flaws, it is man and man alone that corrupts himself, if men didn't have flaws, the system they create for themselves wouldn't either, capitalistic or socialistic.

The problems of suffering and inequality are inherent to our nature, and all of nature.

since this is supposed to be a board about books and stuff, i'm going to go ahead and recommend 'Seeing Like a State' by Scott and 'The Great Transformation' by Polanyi, for anyone who wants to understand how capitalism is destroying traditional values and ways of life

>Posting a balanced well thought out adult opinion in a Peterson thread
Shame on you.

and we can only figure that with consciousness which is also a product of nature, maybe that's meant to evolve as well to a point were we.re beyond those problems?

Evolution has no goal other than survival and reproduction. Consciousness evolved because it helped human beings achieve those goals, not because we're supposed to get to a place where suffering doesn't exist. What would a lack of suffering even look like? If everything were provided for me at will I'd fry the pleasure center of my brain, and have no motivation to get up in the morning.

renounce your individualism and become a full blown commie. keep your social views private

>evolution has no goal other than survival and reproduction
Prove it.

well Jesus, for example, got up in the morning to love others, nothing more. Even if you don't believe in him, life imitates art.

Holy shit

Evolution has no goal period. It's just a process we've noticed that occurs in our reality that describes the fact that environmental pressures will influence the genetic makeup of the species sensitive to those pressures.

> hur hur one ideology is the cause of all my problems
> not the fact that any ideology will end up being ruined by human greed, even if a good leader pops up to lead the movement temporarily

This blackpill is the only pill you can ever take and be correct about this issue. The struggle never ends and your gommunist / crapitalist / fascist / whatever memes mean nothing because you're too stupid to understand the real issues.

fuck peterson

>environmental pressures will influence the genetic makeup of the species sensitive to those pressures.
Through the survival and reproduction of those with the genes best suited to that environment. You can call that a goal.

Got excited after the first sentence that it was actually going to focus on those biological "holes" in his philosophy, but then it just launched right on in to unflasifiable ad hominim. Like all criticisms of JP on this brain-dead website.

Embrace Marxism, reject Liberal identitarianism

No because evolution can lead to species extinction. It can lead to speciation. It can lead to divergence.

Communism is absolutely compatible with individualism and a case can be made that Marx was heavily invested in finding ways to maximize human freedom.

Communism, as in the abolition of private property and commodity production, only limits one's individual self expression insofar as one wishes to dominate or harm other people.

>beating him with the "his fans are losers" association bludgeon
>expending this much effort to attack a man you concede has both good and bad ideas
It's all tribal. Peterson's association with right-of-center losers is this person's main problem with his work, not the work itself.

_Test:00000000001_The solution to the problem will be found in this discussion.

No kidding. It was like a 180 after the first paragraph.

I think JP is an OK guy, I never participate in these threads and I've seen a grand total of 3 or 4 of his vids (whenever one is trending and I'm bored enough to click it on Veeky Forums). I actually watched the Joe Rogan one this dude is talking about, for about the first 25 minutes I guess.

- All of the stuff it's referencing is from the first 20 minutes or so, so they were just going in to find shit to be annoyed about.

- The Kermit shit is another one I actually watched, oddly enough. I emailed him around that time and told him not to associate too closely with alt righters, who might appropriate him as an icon and give him terrible press. He didn't seem to understand that the people enthusiastically posting Pepe shit on that video were also shitposting ironic Nazis. His inability to differentiate that initial rush from the Reddit people is telling of how little he really cares about "Kekistan" shit.

- The Hitler thing shows they don't understand anything about JP's psychology jargon (which I don't personally like all that much). The point JP consistently makes is that we have drives and personality traits that we can't help except by being aware of them and channeling them properly. Saying Hitler was orderly and also saying "clean your room" is for JP like saying "you know it's interesting that serial killers are often sexual fetishists" and also saying "don't let your fetishes get all pent up through self-loathing or self-denial."

- JP definitely is a self-help guru, and people definitely do seek out figures like him and put too much stock in them. But the same can be said about the things JP rails against, like the literal, ACTUAL cult of pomo SJW shit that goes on at UofT where he teaches, where you are taught to use special speech codes and self-flagellate for the Glorious Ideology (or else). At least JP isn't intentionally forming a death cult like those people are. He's just an autistic Jungian.

This is just some whiny tranny who is mad that the establishment isn't as much of an echo chamber as it was 2 years ago. Fuck trannies.

Capitalism isn't what caused this all to happen. Globalism did.

But yes, Peterson complains a lot. He has a lot of simple but nice things to say, but ultimately he's more or less just an old man who is weary about the future. Every turning point in human history has always been a double edged sword; globalism has its perks, it's moving everything forward in ways not imaginable before, but it has downsides.

How the fuck does Hitler's orderliness have anything to do with Peterson's insistence on having order in one's life? A single personality trait doesn't make one a generically murderer. The implication the person who wrote this is making is nonsensical.

>join the hive and keep your head down

faggot

join the CORRECT hive and keep your head down.

untermensch

ITT society is on the decline and people are fighting over why that is.
take a look in the mirror, you are the decline.

Don't bother. There's no epistemological substance to most criticism directed at Peterson. There was a popular left wing subreddit that literally referred to him as a Nazi. It's just tribalism.

How was any of that an actual argument? Was it meant to be a satirical representation of your typical illiterate litposter?

>become a full blown commie
>keep your social views private
Like clockwork.

>epistemological substance
what exactly did you mean by this?

I meant nothing. Pay no mind

ethical hypocrisy is comfy lad

depends on which society.

many people have anxiety resulting from economic forces. of which have many complex causes ranging from outright rent-seeking to automation and offshoring.

i'd wager most of today's drama is a manifestation of this economic frustration.

>he writes books in order to sell them
>he makes videos in order to propagate his ideas
What a cool insight

Advanced pottery even

Economic alienation comes from the fact that economic disparities create status distinctions. If you had a system of social bonding that supersceded economic status, like religion, those economic disparities wouldn't be such a problem.

shared culture, nationality, and ethnicity promote similar social bonding.

the nordic nations are highly irreligious yet continue to have strong social trust, though that may decline with the influx of poor muslim immigrants. those nations also have strong social democratic policies to reduce status distinctions and enable economic opportunity.

id wager if america had kept its new deal type policies then things would be less bad.

it's not just capitalism. if you take 90% of what he says and you pretend he's left wing it wouldn't even be out of place.
he's a psychologist who doesn't know what cognitive dissonance is.

>id wager if america had kept its new deal type policies then things would be less bad.

>implying the New Deal ever ended
you probably mean the american system + immigration quotas

ITT: the capitalism that can be regulated is not the true capitalism.

many of the social democratic programs started and inspired by new deal have been cut or downsized since the early 80s. compared to the nordic nations the usa is lacking in many different dimensions.

though i agree that unlimited illegal immigration doesn't help low income natives.

Religion isn't the only possible system of bonding to orient your society around, I agree. But enforcing economic equality in a nation with severe cultural distinctions (like America) is a recipe for even greater resentment. If the fruits of my labor are going to someone else, I better have something in common with that someone else, or I won't perceive it as anything other than theft. The small size and ethnic homogeneity of Scandinavia is what allowed socialism to work there.

astute gestalt

yes, there's been research on this subject to suggest that increased diversity and multiculturalism reduces social trust and support for welfare programs.

though i think not all welfare is equal. providing quality education, including university and vocational schools, is in everyone's best interests as it increases human capital and economic growth. systems like universal health care are more efficient and effective than america's. you could make fiscally conservative arguments in favor of such policies.

>astute gestalt

...

>there are people who actually believe women become single mothers on purpose to receive meagre sums of welfare

I think he's saying that marital bonds are strengthened when both parties need one another, rather than it being just a choice. If you remove any economic incentive for a woman to stay married, then that freedom will be exploited by a large percentage of women.

Why do you think the alternatives would restore traditional morality?

Yes. That does happen. And, If you lived in a low income community you would know that that happens a fair amount.

>women are too dumb to stop shitting out kids they can't afford
What a misogynistic attitude.

because they ban swing music, the singular cause of western decline.

The thing about a federalized nation like America is that you can do this on a local state level. And because the taxpayer shares a tighter bond with his local statesman than he does with someone living a thousand miles away who speaks with a different accent, he's more likely to concede to paying for those programs. I live in Connecticut, and I got free healthcare and education because of my poverty.

but the cause of the decline in culture, family, tradition, morals and hard work is nihilist fueled post-modernism. Capitalism moves people out of abject poverty faster than any system in history. between 2000 and 2013 overall poverty HALVED.

youtube.com/watch?v=l-eMSRjU4A0

watch all of this