How is psychiatry still a thing?

Psychoanalysis and things like that aren't often based in neuroscience. When it comes to diagnosing and treating people in the future they'll be looking at brain chemistry first

>Psychology is a neuroscience

lmao gtfo

i'd argue that neuropsychology is essentially a specific branch of neuroscience

>When it comes to diagnosing and treating people in the future they'll be looking at brain chemistry first

Sure and that'll be great, but you can't honestly believe that'll be the end of treatment. Once you factor out various forms of neurological problems and a person still has a neurosis then there's nothing biochemistry can do for the person and there Psychoanlysis is pertinent.
You know Freud himself began in neurology and only developed psychoanlysis after seeing there was no observable biological cause for various forms of hysteria.

Well you'd be wrong. There is no such thing as neuropsychology as yet. There is just psychology and it has extremely little connection to neuroscience.

Kek.

>there is no such thing as neuropsychology
i mean you could have at least done a cursory google before making yourself look like a fool
>There is just psychology and it has extremely little connection to neuroscience
again, a cursory google search would save you from looking retarded

I'm obviously speaking of the fields as legitimate actually existing scientific disciplines not a hot topic brand for academic hucksters

You're just pissed you have to spend your allowance on meds instead of weed and hentai.

>it doesn't exist
>ok it does exist but it's not legitimate
i believe this is what they call backpedalling

Nigger believe whatever the fuck you want, I don't give a shit fulfilling your little reddit argument criteria

yes i understand that you much prefer talking out of your ass and not being challenged

Yeah much like psychologists, have a nice day champ

you too, stay in school

Thanks, peace

psychiatry is what happens when medicine/medication dominates the mind

counseling and therapy are applied psychology.

but really psychology is applied exposition/explacation.

Well Freud was working in a different area and they didn't know enough about the brain. It will always come down to neurology at least for major disorders

*meant to say Freud was working in a different time period

the just write prescriptions

voodoo

>It will always come down to neurology at least for major disorders

I see no reason at all to assume that, even Autism is incredibly difficult to trace as a neurological in origin. Neuroplasticity makes the division between ego-social causation and innate biological structure incredibly difficult to trace at the current time, especially as those under investigation often come after the point of diagnosis

I though Autism was genetic? How could it not be neurological when it affects language development and motor skills? Anyway, I think psychoanalysis is worthless but I support further genetic testing and brain testing for mental disorders so we can either abort them in the womb or create cures.

>I though Autism was genetic?
There's vague correlation that is connected to suggest it could be but we're not sure. Though I'm glad to see you're up for killing babies and dismissing entire schools of thought based on your gut feelings.

Dipshit

>meaning is derived by neurochemistry
Soylent Green wafer in the making.

it never really was a thing.
if people need psychological help they should see a priest or monk.

How is it not genetic? I thought the science was completely agreed that autism was the most heritable of all developmental and complex psychiatric disorders. Autism aggregates in families and twin studies all show a high heritability. And abortion isn't killing babies. Psychoanalysis has no more effect than a placebo.

>And abortion isn't killing babies.
>Killing really young babies isn't killing

Human life starts at conception, brainlet.

>And abortion isn't killing babies

All it is is cells, its not alive yet. It's a good thing we don't have the draconian church breathing down our necks so we can actually advance as a species, now go back to your cloistered general thread and pretend among yourselves.

>All it is is cells

As opposed to...?

A fully formed and conscious individual. It's not conscious, has no organs, no brain, no self. It's only a zygote or an embryo, it has no personhood.

These threads are always insufferable. I mean, Veeky Forums as USUAL involves people spewing opinions on topics they know next to nothing about. But psychology and psychiatry is one of those areas that even laypeople all seem to think they are experts in, even having read nothing but headlines for I fucking love science. So put it on Veeky Forums and you get a pandemonium of absolute dipshits who think the buck of authority ends with them.

Also, where the fuck did you go, OP? Answer this you fucking turboturd:

>All it is is cells

if you're a materialist then this is a pointless thing to say, since all humans are is "cells" ... and what value do cells or "stardust" have in themselves? What is wrong with stardust killing stardust?

>It's a good thing we don't have the draconian church breathing down our necks so we can actually advance as a species, now go back to your cloistered general thread and pretend among yourselves.

yes because freely killing babies for predominately economic/selfish reasons is a metric for human advancement.

>don't kill a conscious, fully formed human
>but a human that is developing its consciousness and organs is okay to kill cause its in a woman's tummy ;)

It is, eugenics is a form of human advancement, any country that does not practice abortion should not be receiving aid or funding from Western countries, which is why it is imperative birth control and abortion be used in Africa. Zygote is just a clump of cells, it has not become a person yet.

The woman has the right to decide if she does not want to carry her embryo to pregnancy. She is more important than not fully formed cells.

>any country that does not practice abortion should not be receiving aid or funding from Western countries
I agree. Countries should not sacrifice their children to Mammon, despite how much he pays.

>muh women's rights
>except if the woman is an unborn baby, then she can be killed freely

Yes, and this is a science thread so you can go back to your general now

Yes, she can, she has control over her body and the zygote/embryo is not a person yet. The life of the living woman is more important. Just like how people in pain or disease should be allowed to use assisted suicide, so they do not have to suffer.

>robbing a human baby of its potential future as a conscious and independent person is good, and not immoral.

>The life of the living woman is more important
Indeed! Thankfully no one ended her life while she was an unborn baby, now she can use her freedumbs to abort her baby and buy more shoes.

big pharma

I supposedly have Aspergers and I'm 100% convinced no one's life has been improved by this diagnosis existing.

You can't do anything about, it doesn't effect your ability to really do anything, it just makes teachers and parents treat you like a retard growing up so if the other kids suspected you were weird before it's totally made obvious to them now. All it really accomplishes is instilling you with a lifelong sense that no matter how hard you try you can never be fully accepted by other people because fundamentally you're missing something everyone else has. That might not necessarily be true, but from the way everyone talks about it you would sure think it is.

Like seriously, who benefits from diagnoses like this existing?

We as a society are dependent on each other. You don't have a right just to kill someone because their dependence is inconvenient for you.

the forces that created it will never let it die

it gives them too much control

You do. By understanding that you are a bit of a weirdo you will be less baffled by live. My father only discovered he was a speech in his fifties and he said it explained a lot (his sudden bursts of anger etc).

*Sperg

Fucking phoneposters

>he actually takes jewish mind control pills

You don't seem to realize that the diagnosis itself and the reaction to it, before even being diagnosed, is the source of trauma. The diagnosis reinforces that trauma. People with autism and schizophrenia especially have been abused at the hands of psychiatrists, who were before current restraints on it essentially mad scientists experimenting on the vulnerable. They would do it today if they could. For example, the trauma of being Aboriginal comes first from being treated as one (yes, one can be treated as autistic or schizophrenic without even telling them), and that is reinforced by that 'fault' being given a name and history. Do you think gays would be nearly as pissed off today if they didn't have a trauma associated with their title?

>abort or create cures
Fuck off, secular murderer.

Here's the thing. Probably billions of people all over the world realize they're a bit of a weirdo without needing a doctor to tell them. The simple fact of being a weirdo is not going to impact someone's life nearly as much as treated like a weirdo by all the adults in their life as a child. It just seems like a dumb idea that's one of the worst culprits for making psychiatry seem like a bloated and counter-productive discipline.

>Hmm, these children like objects more than people. Clearly something is horribly wrong and I should make a diagnosis about this. Where's my tenure?

Psychiatry/psychology isn't much more than the equivalent of a shoe store at this point, in terms of diagnostics and treatments.

With the neuro angle(behavior x seems more pronounced with less GABA, more T in this or that are or way of entering the system) and all the other regulators that may pertain to behavior.
Now that is promising.

Unfortunately you'll still not hit two groups that could use the help: the group that has a defect from young age that is never going to function.
The group which has a condition that does not allow control to be exerted on them by any external force due to trauma or whatever.

>STEMspergs
>advance as a species
Back to plebbit
>no personhood
>atheist
Pick one you rationalizing tool

Psychiatry is a valid and widely recognized field of medicine.

Do you perhaps mean something else?

Yeah and so were phrenology, alchemy and astrology.

But guess what, sometimes "valid and widely recognized" fields are totally wrong and unnecessary.

None of those were empirically studied fields of modern medicine, leaving your implication somewhat hollow.

Phrenology absolutely 100% was, even into the 20th century phrenology was considered a totally legitimate branch of medicine.

>tfw your psychology professor told you the only branch of psychology isn't a dead end is neuropsychology
>meanwhile in Veeky Forums “there is no such thing as neuropsychology yet”
LMFAO

Whats the contradiction here?
He has hopes for it because its still a proto-field

>psychology professor
>he literally fell for the biggest meme in academia after creative writing

Anything that allows smart, powerful, and agenda driven people to manage or pretend to manage the teleology of progress will never go out of style.

This, except they're not even that smart

Autism is absolutely debilitating though and is more than just being weird. If you happen to be autistic and it never affects your life significantly so you don't have to be diagnosed, good. Some are able to blend in better. The benefit of being labelled is that it's supposed to assist you with getting the outside resources and care you'll need. I have the feeling that people who say that autism isn't a big deal or doesn't exist haven't actually been around autistic people for a long time.

Yep, women are able to. Actually, the entire civilized world has come to an agreement on this. Just think about all those eternal souls being snuffed out everyday. ;)
The fox and the grapes. Enjoy that computer of yours.

>muh civilizashun!
Back to plebbit, murderer.
At least those souls are saved.
>The fox and the grapes. Enjoy that computer of yours.
Project harder, STEMsperg.

/thread
Whenever they try to get psychotherapistic I just go full fatalistic nihilism

Scientologist detected

The older I get the more I realize L Ron Hubbard was right about literally everything

>more knowledge about brain chemistry than we had in the past
No lol, 3000 years ago not even knowledege of 1% of the brain, 3000 later still not even 1% knowledge of the brain. People have just invented legal drugs for "help".

>autism
I said "Aspergers" specifically, Aspergers is a subset of Autism that is not debilitating whatsoever. It does not make you any less able or independent than a "normal" person, it cannot be treated in any way whatsoever. There is nothing anyone can do with the information that they have it.

Yes, there's a lot of people who have extreme Autism and aren't able to function independently. But that's not Aspergers. People with Aspergers type autism don't need help, they don't need outside resources, they don't need to be treated any differently to the other children. If we're to take autism seriously and give help to the people who really need it the first step should be not having diagnostic criteria so uselessly nebulous that it can virtually apply to everyone. Maybe we should stop considering children that like stacking stuff together and are otherwise perfectly ordinary as being "abnormal".

Autism is proper. "Aspergers" is something for academic blockheads to make themselves appear useful. Instead of folding them into one diagnosis we should just forget about the latter as a concept.

i think rolling aspergers into autism was fucking stupid, people with real autism can barely function at all, people with aspergers just have low social iq, its a real stretch to say it's the same "spectrum"

>this thread

They do though. Have you actually been around people with Aspergers? I have, for many many years. They can be very difficult to deal with at times. Like I said, some are able to be chameleons and blend in better, but they most definitely do have trouble fitting into Neurotypical society. Go to any Aspergers forum and ask them and they'll agree.

You idiots have no clue what you're talking about. It sounds like you have Aspergers and are just in denial about it, it affects more then just your social skills. Just because people with Aspergers aren't intellectually impaired or struggle with language doesn't they still don't have a developmental disorder. Autism has always been on a wide spectrum, it affects your braingrowth and development, people with Aspergers aren't any less real autistics than low-functioning autistics. Some people with Aspergers may be intelligent but are very disabled and are unable to work, others are able to adapt and function well. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be diagnosed so they can learn about themselves, it affects you your whole life and doesn't go away.

> Some people with Aspergers may be intelligent but are very disabled and are unable to work
And so are plenty of "normal" people, but no one but total hacks starts quantifying them into scientized boxes. Even if you drew up a totally random classification you're going to find that there's a section of it that don't adapt into society very well. But it doesn't make the distinction you've drawn up between them and the rest to be any more meaningful or useful.

There was a time in history when psychiatrists thought being gay was a disorder and treated them like they were defective but guess what we've found out? That process was totally counter-productive. Treating people who were attracted to the same sex as if they were scientifically abnormal just amplified any problems they already had and made the general public even more confused about them. It can't be "cured", they can still live independent lives while having it, what's the point in acting as if it's a disorder? Yes, in some ways they may be at a disadvantage. But there's no need to make it worse. If these hacks are prepared to admit being transgender isn't a disorder despite them probably having a significantly worse quality of life statistically than people with Asperger's I cannot for the life of me comprehend how they can justify this one. If they're smart enough to figure out transgender people can't be "cured" and that considering them defective has just made their lives worse it should be a no-brainer.

"learn about themselves" is an absolute and total meme. What exactly am I supposed to learn from this? That I'm different from other people? Wow, like I would never figure out that one on my own. But I'd rather just be considered strange than scientifically defective.

I have it and I know a good few people who have it. People thinking you're a weirdo is not debilitating to the point it warrants being a disorder. And as said I think making a diagnosis of it just amplifies the problem, not just to other people but to the subject themselves - especially at a young age.

Children so they can be taught how to recognize expressions and conduct themselves in school. It can also provide them with special help in school by giving them longer for tests and allowing them to take a test in a quiet room alone to avoid sensory overload. You can also get accommodations in some workplaces.

All of Laing's ideas are not based upon scientific evidence and we have scientific proof that many of the mental illnesses he claimed weren't biological in nature are actually biological in nature.

>And so are plenty of "normal" people, but no one but total hacks starts quantifying them into scientized boxes.
wat
>If they're smart enough to figure out transgender people can't be "cured" and that considering them defective has just made their lives worse it should be a no-brainer.
just because something is incurable doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated. In the case of individuals suffering from gender dysphoria the treatment is transitioning. By the way, it's clearly a disorder, they're being hacks by pretending that it isn't and merely capitulating to political correctness
>despite them probably having a significantly worse quality of life statistically than people with Asperger's I cannot for the life of me comprehend how they can justify this one.
the decision to treat disorders isn't done based on whataboutisms
>People thinking you're a weirdo is not debilitating to the point it warrants being a disorder.
you've already implied that you know there are people who find it debilitating to the point that they're unable to work, clearly it does warrant being a disorder

Aspergers is a disorder because you have INHERENT NEUROLOGICAL LIMITS that Neurotypical people don't have. I'm sorry, but you should just accept it by now and move on with your life, it doesn't mean you're inferior and hopefully society will get better at accepting and treating these people.

What are they, and what is the neural basis? You wouldn't be regurgitating shit you don't understand now, would you?

Of course I'm not, I know a decent amount about autism since I've worked with people who have had it for a long time. Its a neurodevelopmental disorder, it appears as early as infancy and reflects abnormal brain development. There have been recent studies done that propose a potential endophenotype of autism that develops worse than Neurotypical individuals from childhood onwards, no matter their IQ or whether they had a language delay or not. So yes, its an intrinsic neurological limit. See this study: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23898241

>Children so they can be taught how to recognize expressions and conduct themselves in school
What I'm saying is if, for instance, you drew up a diagnosis for children who eat crayons, have trouble with team sports, rarely laugh and react negatively to animals and called it user's syndrome we're going to find at least some of the population have it and some of them haven't adapted to life very well at all. You could draw up any arbitrary diagnosis and then retroactively justify its continued existence on the basis that some of the people you've identified are unable to work, or are in prison, or commit suicide or some such thing.

This also applies to your fourth point.

>just because something is incurable doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated.
The following is also relevant to your point.

Here's the thing. You can't treat Asperger's, at best you can manage it. Any kind of management or therapy is always going to be tailored to the individual in question rather than following a scientifically rigorous blueprint that is proven to work for everyone. But here's the thing, even neurotypical people do this.

Asperger's in itself doesn't reveal very much about how the individual should be managed or what they need. We can only approach it on a case by case basis. Which just so happens to be the exact same approach educators take to "normal" children. They just have the benefit of not having a role projected onto them.

Similarly not all people with gender dysphoria need or want to transition. They just want people to accept them as their preferred gender identity.

>By the way, it's clearly a disorder, they're being hacks by pretending that it isn't and merely capitulating to political correctness
I see, so when I take issue with the academic verdict I'm in denial and need to accept science. But when you do it (for probably politically motivated reasons) the experts are just wrong. I see.

Maybe you're not the same guy so this doesn't apply.

>the decision to treat disorders isn't done based on whataboutisms
It's not a whataboutism, it's pointing out some glaring hypocrisy on the psychiatric establishments part.

Clearly in deeming that being transgender is not a disorder they have set a precedent for what a disorder may be. If the impacts on ones life if they have gender dysphoria are not pronounced enough to be considered a disorder then it's simply unscientific to consider Asperger's to be one when it is so benign in comparison.

I'm not saying Asperger's doesn't exist, I'm saying it shouldn't be classified as a disorder and the way society goes about managing it is counter-productive.

Having certain neurological limits doesn't necessarily mean it is a disorder.

What would you say to the assertion that as perverse and any other disorder related to social cues is caused by attachment and sociolisation issues in the family, rather than purely biological cuases. Every problem that emerged that early will have neurological correlates, as will anything else for that matter.

Aspergers is a disability. You can cope all you want but people with autism have a unique neurological structuring that affects their ability to succeed in a world that is largely based on social skills. Not that it just affects your social ablities, but also your motor skills and is also highly comorbid with other disorders like depression and OCD. And kids who are Autistic often struggle in school because it actually affects your motivation and your ability to respond to the standard form of learning. It's no coincidence that 65% of people with Aspergers remain unemployed. If you are able to succeed then good for you, it is a spectrum disorder and you may be better off. You shouldn't think that reflects other experiences though, each person with Autisms case is different.

*autism/aspergers, not as perverse

Because french idiots claiming that mental illness isn't a thing so they can keep pozzing fags haven't made convincing arguments as to the opposite.

Read this. You should stop being so presumptuous and insulting to those who are unable to adjust to the Neurotypical world. Be glad that your case isn't as severe, but don't act like thats reflective of everyone who has it, because it isn't. Most do struggle greatly with school, being employed, and interacting with the world, and it would be ridiculous to say that it isn't a disorder because thats the definition of a disorder: it affects your ability to deal with the normal requirements of the world.

>asperger isn't a disorder because I feel really bad being classified as mentally ill
I'd argue you feeling that is evidence of it being a disorder.

Its not. Look up genetic etiology of autism. Autism is highly inheritable, even more so than Schizophrenia. Though environmental factors also play a role, researchers are trying to find out to how big of a degree.

Have fun trying to make him accept findings from behavioral genetics.