/ccg/ - Classical Conservative General

Enough already about "classical liberalism". Here's a thread for classical (traditional) conservatives and the literature thereof. Here is the Wikipedia article on that if you don’t know what that is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism

If nothing else, post your faith. I’m personally an Orthodox Christian.

There’s a book out recently, you might be interested in it: “The Politics of Virtue: Post Liberalism and the Human Future. Here is a piece on it: newstatesman.com/culture/books/2016/10/liberalism-and-capitalism-have-hollowed-out-society-so-where-do-we-turn-now

Feel free to post other book recs as well as articles. I enjoyed these:

catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2017/01/13/long-read-what-liberal-intellectuals-get-wrong-about-transgenderism/

abc.net.au/religion/articles/2016/05/17/4463500.htm

Music, it’s a non-liturgical piece (liturgical music for us must be a cappella) by one of our bishops in homage to Bach: youtube.com/watch?v=A5XgsLqUN6k The finale, 1:41:45, kept playing in my head after my baptism (we do full immersion and it’s quite beautiful). You can see a political and religious interview with him here: youtube.com/watch?v=ZzfjCb-3bcY

Please, feel free to post art, but make it great art, not sentimentalist crap.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Works_by_Edmund_Burke
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

faith and tradition are for gaylords

gorrilla minset by mike cernovitch is a must read for all conservatives

Why?

He's fucking with people. Cernovich is a joke.

A book I'd encourage people new to this stuff to check out is Archeofuturism by Guillaume Faye.

What are some right-wing novels that are actually good?

Were you born into Orthodoxy or did you convert? It seems like a lot of conservative-but-smarter-than-/pol/ posters on Veeky Forums convert to Orthodoxy.

Are classical realists invited too?

>Orthodoxy annoyed Catholicism got most of western canon
>those anglophone links
I'm offended on behalf of traditionalists tbph

Convert, I was baptized in adulthood

We do convert to Orthodoxy. They 're actually even more high church than Catholic and have very conservative saints and monks. Also our theology and aesthetic are centered around tradition, tradition, tradition. It's very satisfying for tradition to be considered so important and reverently in an age that is concerned with overcoming tradition


>What are some right-wing novels that are actually good?

Demons

Dostoevsky
Julius Evola

Evola is hardly a classical conservative

>I’m personally an Orthodox Christian.

Enjoy hell.

Don't associate with degenerates!

Leftists analysis about civilization is mostly right, but their solutions are wrong. They believe we can overcome the negative outcomes of modernity through further progression - greater equality, more deconstruction, newer morals - whereas the traditionalist knows that one can only defeat modernity by leaving it completely, to abandon the idea of progress altogether, and to return to what sustained us for thousands of years.

We believe hell is heaven, God's fiery presence, but in an ungodly state. So if I'm enjoying it, it's heaven

I think that depends on which leftist analysis you mean. Also the focus of value is much different. Classical conservatives, for instance, want to repair our estrangement from the land and therefore support things like conservationism and reviving gardening and farming. Leftist enviromentalists by contrast are more about protecting earth from hunanity than recovering our bond to the land. Leftist economics also don't analyze non-material factors, which are crucial for us in considering flaws in a system.

>Evola
>Classical conservative
He is more of a reactionary t b h

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Works_by_Edmund_Burke

>"I will simply point out the error of principle that has provided the foundation of this constitution and that has led the French astray since the first moment of their revolution.

>The constitution of 1795, like its predecessors, has been drawn up for Man. Now, there is no such thing in the world as Man. In the course of my life, I have seen Frenchmen, Italians, Russians, etc.; I am even aware, thanks to Montesquieu, that one can be a Persian. But, as for Man, I declare that I have never met him in my life. If he exists, I certainly have no knowledge of him.

>....This constitution is capable of being applied to all human communities from China to Geneva. But a constitution which is made for all nations is made for none: it is a pure abstraction, a school exercise whose purpose is to exercise the mind in accordance with a hypothetical ideal, and which ought to be addressed to Man, in the imaginary places which he inhabits....

>What is a constitution? Is it not the solution to the following problem: to find the laws that are fitting for a particular nation, given its population, its customs, its religion, its geographical situation, its political relations, its wealth, and its good and bad qualities?

>Now, this problem is not addressed at all by the Constitution of 1795, which is concerned only with Man."

T.Joseph de Maistre

smart guy.

the new climate of absolute egalitarianism is one of the stupidest mistakes ever made by mankind, and proceeding with it as a first principle will continue to turn out terrible results until we finally abandon the idea.

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>being a conservative when there is nothing left to conserve

this

>Being a liberal when there is nothing else to liberalize

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But so is the idea that superior people should simply enjoy superior place. All should work for the benefit of society, not just one's class or oneself. Classes ONLY serve the purpose of bettering society as a whole, just as church classes (laity, monks, hermits, deacons, priests, readers, choir, fools-for-Chtist, bishops etc) only exist for the benefit of the Church; without that defing purpose, they are just special interest groups.

>feminism and welfarism is destroying the family
>atheism is destroying religion
>multiculturalism and social mobility are destroying the community

It's going well, but there's plenty more work to be done before Rome falls

Wtf I love liberalism now

>atheism is destroying religion
Except athiesm is the fastest dying belief in the world. You see you, can't have children if you never get laid in the first place.

Are you guys racist, too?

>What even is a nation like it's just borders lol
>What is a common modality between a large group of people inheriting a political sphere that they govern over without too much conflict of interest
Is this guy retarded?

>/ccg/ - Classical Conservative General
you fucked it up, we are gonna get drowned in american """"conservatives""""

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>What is a Crip? I refuse to be kille- *pop pop pop*

>not being an accelerationist and gearing yourself up for the rebuild

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True, Christianity is still being lost in the West though, and that's significant. The idea of atheism being replaced by Islam doesn't exactly fill me with hope.

it's impossible to be an intelligent human being and religious at the same time.

It is impossible for a human being not to be religious. It only depends which particular certainties they choose to cling to and which idols they choose to follow.

That makes no sense.

I am a human being. I am not religious.

We believe different peoples have different cultures and temperments (therefore a utopia, one-size-fits-all government style is not practic). We don't factor in or care about racialist science, though, and we certainly aren't interested in making policies to harm different races out of spite

Yes you are.

Except you are? Modern athiesm is based around scientism , their moral authorities come from talking heads on the television, and their tradition stems from a secular interpretation of liberation theology.

The only kind of men without religion are total psychopaths incapable of empathy and relation with others

>plato
>conservative
>wants to literally create a new man and forbid traditional myths and poetry
yeah, no

Why is this not on /pol/? It's literally just a political ideology general that barely references books.

And it has been up for almost an entire day now. What the fuck, jannies?

Religion is not an individualist conclusion, it's a collectively inherited and treasured system of belief and practice. It does require a willingess to not exalt one's own reasoning as the foremost source of truth and wisdom.

>We
Speak for yourself, pal. Biological determinism is something I defend, including race naturalism. Any kind of large scale interaction with other racial groups should give you an immediate sense of quintessential differences between different kinds of folk. Even within racial groups there are differences between different kinds of folk as well.

Human biodiversity and biological determinism are conservative and anti-egalitarian values. Whether or not people see this as "racist" doesn't matter. I for one don't hate other races, I just like my own and accept their differences.

Gotta purge fast

This, again, makes no sense. You're assuming my moral authorities come from television?

How does atheism (where it necessarily must not believe in a deity) ever derive from liberation theology?

Can we ban this shit from Veeky Forums? Go back to screaming on street corners you deluded loons.

Politics and culture are inseparable and have profound effects on each other. Also
>trying to have an intelligent discussion on /pol/

Except Plato's republic and the responses to it are essential to understand conservative thought, especially his defense of aristocracy as a form of government

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>where it necessarily must not believe in a deity)
>He is such a brainlet that he doesn't understand that most laws and mores of the secularized west come from Christian values
>Doesn't understand that egalitarianism comes from Christianity either
Fucks sake

if your country is developed to the point where you can access Veeky Forums from your home and you are still religious you are an idiot.

How can any adult in the 21st century still be brainwashed by pedos who believe in magic sky men?

I guess that depends on what you mean by "biological determinism". Classical conservatism is more rooted in tradition as justifaction (seeing it as collective wisdom we might not always understnd), that trying to justify tradition. As soon as traditions become based on rational justifaction, you're on the modernist ride,

>Veeky Forums is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to Veeky Forums. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/.
If OP wants to make a thread about The Politics of Virtue: Post Liberalism and the Human that is fine. But literally just a political ideology general is ridiculous, it's not on topic at all.

>trying to have an intelligent discussion on /pol/
Have you considered that this is because political discussions are retard magnets and making Veeky Forums an acceptable place for political generals would only make Veeky Forums worse?

>You're assuming my moral authorities come from television?
>Assuming
Except I'm right. Unless you would like to tell me where your socialized morality came from?
>Inb4 idk , school

I understand where laws come from, the only problem is most of them also come from common sense and we would have gotten here (much quicker, may I add) without religion.

"If we outlaw murder people will kill each other less"
wow we really needed god for that one didn't we?

See my last point.

Sorry I didn't get my entire life philosophy from a book written by ooga-booga ghost man and his twelve dickriders

i could understand plato in general being key to conservatism, but not the republic which is pretty revolutionary, he wants to break the traditional family, open up all positions to all citizens, in principle men and women, put all kids in the same undifferentiated pile, educate them together and choose the best of them

that's a meritocracy but i wouldn't compare it with a normal hereditary aristocracy

Orthodox believe God is an energy (depicted most oftwn as a light or fire) dwelling in and sustaining all things. Heaven and hell are acute experience of him

I grew up Orthodox and most people subscribed to the magic sky man interpretation.

I've experienced enough of your people's stupidity for one lifetime . Santa isn't real, kids. It's time to grow up.

Except the concept of kin and the differences between folk has also existed as collective and intergenerational wisdom for thousands of years? Conservatism still allows for rational justification, it's the definition of "rational" that conservatives have a qualm with modernists. Where modernists only see the surface of things and call the denial of things underneath it

>my morality comes from common sense
>Has no idea where the collective sense of morality of his surroundings comes from

I'm sorry you're too stupid to realise the inconsistency of religion and its morals.

Keep deluding yourself. Hope you have fun in heaven which is totally a place.

>Because killing each other is wrong a priori
Except that's a Christian teaching. Not every culture sees murder as being inherently evil

>the only problem is most of them also come from common sense
are you retarded? it's 2017 and you have seen what multiculturalism looks like, the "common sense" meme died a long time ago

If that's all you can grasp, that understanding is fine.

I'm not comfortable using rationalism and science as justification because they are rooted in change and progress. The sun used to orbit the earth

>Dude ad infinitum denial is any better than ad infinitum faith
>All of my morality comes from absolutely nowhere and is a praxeology , it's just something that always was human law and always was moral since the beginning of time
How to spot a moron who doesn't know himself 101

it's not about wrong or right, it's about self-preservation. Did jesus not tell you about social contract theory?

"I don't kill you and you don't kill me"

and most of the problems from other 'cultures' are actually problems deriving from religion. even a religious moron like you must understand that.

>'grasping' something that doesn't exist

faith is just another world for delusion.

leap of faith = committing to something despite reality = delusion


do the world a favour and please commit suicide. All of you. There's nothing worse than religious pseudos.

He wanted to create a meritocratic aristocracy, probably because he recognized that the son of someone prominent does not always have the same abilities as his progenitor

And btw I'm not saying change progress when based on tradition is bad (tradition changes unless it's dogma), but science and reason make abrupt, radical changes. Tradition makes cautious change over a long period

>Treat those as you would have them treat yourself
>admitting that the basis for your morality comes from a religious decree and being too stupid to realize your hypocrisy
Wew, when did self preservation and individualism become the basis of morality in mankind? When was that inherent?

>Because asserting that there is nothing beyond yourself isn't a leap of faith that asserts a form of reality

yes, he wanted to break with tradition, the republic is not a conservative book

What's your point? Given the choice, I'd asser there is nothing beyond myself than taking a blind chance on magic god man's existence, and then using that belief to follow an incosistent moral doctrine

Since survival of the fittest was a thing, or do you not believe in that either?

Iinb4 fedora posts because you guys have no argument

why don't you all go back to sucking dick at the altar

Except it was? His critiques of democracy and inquiry into human nature needing to be reigned in by the the state. He also calls for eugenics and a ruling class by the state.

In fact, he kind of advocates for an early form of fascism, and you're right that this would make it utopian, but still it's an important work to read and has (some) conservative values within it which are important to consider as well.

>I'd asser there is nothing beyond myself than taking a blind chance on magic god man's existence, and then using that belief to follow an incosistent moral doctrine
So you're openly admitting that you are taking a blind leap of faith via solipsism that asserts a reality you aren't willing to question.

Good job user, it's good that you can admit that

Most great literature is pretty conservative. Leftists tend to see life in black and white terms. This kind of literal worldview can be good for producing naturalistic literature, like Dreiser's Sister Carrie and Sinclair's The Jungle. But it's hard imagining a leftist writing a Henry James novel.

>In fact, he kind of advocates for an early form of fascism
so? fascism is revolutionary, not conservative, the italian fascist party was literally called Fascist Revolutionary Party

and yet it STILL makes more sense to do it my way than yours, why is that? is it because religion asserts a whole laundry list of other shit it can't prove with a single bit of evidence?

Can I ask you a question? Do you seriously think you're a sane person?

>Individualism is Darwinian
No
>Mankind lacks any autonomy like the animals around us that run on pure instinct
No
>Self preservation implies no murder, rape, theft, etc on an individual level
No, and according to your Darwinian morality, anything that promotes you genotype and reproductive dominance over others is morally justified. So rape is , you know, fine then?

>is it because religion asserts a whole laundry list of other shit it can't prove with a single bit of evidence?
Except your belief system also assets a whole list of mores which you believe in by a quasi biblical decree that just happens to be "common law" and egalitarianism , neither of which have any kind of real argument for that goes beyond moral ones, the morality of which ultimately coming from Christian traditions This is all, meanwhile, coming from an assertion of total solipsism beyond the self which is ten times more absurd which in itself is a religious assertion.

Man is inherently religiou, period.

>Is revolutionary
Reactionary, but yes still had post-enlightenment assertions of egalite in it. It would be hard to call Codreanu, Hitler, or Rivera revolutionary compared to anyone else at the time though.

Still, Plato's republic is a good read

wow, so all that's stopping you from raping people is your God? That's fucked up.

I understand the damaging psychological and physical consequences of rape. I would not wish it upon myself (I also would not wish it upon others, but thats beyond the point) and others would not wish it upon themselves. Therefore, in the same way no murder laws would come about, no rape laws would happen. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand

Oh wait, you're stupid enough to be religious, so Imay as well tell you my moral code comes from frogs that whisper in my ear every morning telling me not to rape others


please give me some of these assertions from my 'belief system'

>>(I also would not wish it upon others, but thats beyond the point)
>being this clueless
>introduction christian morality in a parenthesis without justification
wew lad, the least you could do is at least be edgier if you are going to portray this level of fedoraism

>wow, so all that's stopping you from raping people is your God? That's fucked up.
It's the same with you though, the social contract is based on Christian morality.
>I understand that it hurts people and hurting people is inherently wrong just because
>I mean that sentiment is just inherent, it has been what mankind practiced since the dawn of time because it's Darwinian

Except taking war brides was always something mankind did, and if you want to justify morality by a Darwinian decree, then the Rape of the Sabine women was the most moral thing for the early Romans to do because it asserts their reproductive supremacy over others. Just admit that your morality comes from a Christian basis already, this is just getting sad

>please give me some of these assertions from my 'belief system'
I already gave you solipsism and egalitarianism. I guess I missed pacifism , although not all athiests are pacifists

are you really that dense that you can't get to empathy without god?

and I inb4'd fedora comments, but nice try.

i am against rape because I don't want rape to be a thing in our world. You have to be literally autistic to need something other than the definition of rape to be against it. Then again you're all religious, so the autism thing make sense

>i am against rape because I don't want rape to be a thing in our world
Yeah because you have a moral sense that stems from Christian thought but you're just too dense to understand how mores develop within a society.

Lrn2 humanities m8

>are you really that dense that you can't get to empathy without god?
lol, i'm not religious, i'm just not clueless and i'm aware that your "common sense" is just as magical as their "god". values are not created from thin air and morality has no basis in science.

>i am against rape because I don't want rape to be a thing in our world.
well of course, because you've gone through a western education and been completely christianized, not you just take it for granted and want to ignore the roots

you're a steaming hot retard

please continue to fund pedos and anti-science practices with your outdated beliefs, lads. I'm out of here.

Lets hope I don't rape anyone on the way out!

So this was a troll, right thread? There's no way this was real person?

He insulted people and kept saying "inb4 Fedora memes", although nobody posted a fedora meme. I think he is a troll.

One day, you might understand. Until then have fun rereading The God Delusion and believing yourself rationally superior to everyone else

>Makes generalizations and ad hominems everywhere
>Strawmans as a desperate attempt to claim moral superiority
>Literally believes religious people are insane
Did you literally just finished reading The God Delusion, and came here to shitpost, or are you underage?

Specification (as opposed to the delusion that an ideology being "universal" makes it better) does not imply such a stratification.

There is almost something innocent in people trashing the concept of nations that didn't have to live the first 15 years of their lives around muslims.

Yes I'm a troll you got me I actually believe in god teehee

Not bad to be honest, I've literally had the same argument about 500 times

Those are the best arguments.
Like defending Tifa on /v/ or 2001 on /tv or Kissinger on /pol/.

if god exists then why are you a faggot?