So I've just finished Book of the New Sun and I've been well and thoroughly Gene'd

Also, how does that line up with the story Jonas tells about the beans?

(I don't remember, it's been years since I've read it)

They aren't his kids, though his kids will choose names for themselves eventually. The nature of Abia who might be floating down the river at the end giving commands is like the naviscaput, the story of spring wind tells you what happened on mars/verthandi, etc

Either planted in the sea or in the sun, something to stifle the empire of humanity until it passes the test (black holes or megatherians?)

Gene Wolfe is a very bad author.

Baldanders represents a monstrous self-transformation in humanity, devoting science to changing the self for power rather than something truly transcendent and perhaps noncorporeal

Plebby plebbington exposes his bad taste and poor reading skills

>though his kids will choose names for themselves eventually.
?
>something to stifle the empire of humanity until it passes the test (black holes or megatherians?)
I got the impression that the Cacogens don't really care if humanity wins out or if the megatherians win, which gives the impression they're just another faction vying for power rather than a "test"
In fairness, he doesn't seem like such a bad dude. Like what's really wrong with trying to live forever and learn science? Also, what was the deal with the Ayy lmaos saying that he would eventually die and disseminate his knowledge so others may learn?

>plebby plebbington
well if this is the level of insult you can provide, doubtless one would be best served wasting time elsewhere.

Gene Wolfe, I reiterate, is a very bad author.

Right, I may have been conflating sea monsters with Long Sun, given their names...

So Wolfeans, I currently have the Book of the New Sun, the Fifth Head of Cerberus, and Peace. I have read none of them. What order should I read them in?

Jump straight into the Solar Cycle, it's good stuff. Then read Peace.

PLEASE SOMEONE READ THIS I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT FOR YEARS

IF ANYONE HAS READ HIS SHORT STORY "REMEMBRANCE TO COME" PLEASE EXPLAIN IT TO ME IT'S MY FAVORITE SHORT STORY BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT! IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH PROUST BUT I HAVEN'T READ HIM!

>Solar Cycle
is it important/worthwhile to go on from BoNS to all of Urth/Long/Short? Or are there some that are more essential than others?

Urth is a closure to New Sun. Long and Short are different series, and you don't need to read them unless you just want more. Long isn't as wild as the New series, but still a decent read.

I personally rec the whole thing.

great, thanks for the input!

sorry man I've read Proust but not Wolfe, ask again in like a year

The inversion of power here gives the young too much and the old establishment not enough,but I think he is an old man with dementia really regretting his life and trying to revisit his past at a time right before he lost everything ... need to review it.

I.e. eventually he will remember that he is an old sick man and the time to make a difference is long past

Why

I've seen people mention that characters Sev considers attractive might actually be hideous to us. I can't remember anything that would imply this - can anyone expound upon it or even point me at some fan art?

The Proust allusions usually involve involuntary memories that show up later and change everything about the way you perceive the world, but I don't think you need Proust to enjoy the story.

Thecla sounds freakish but meh doesn't seem like something Wolfe intended

>reiteration of opinion with no argumentation or evidence
de gustibus non est disputandum I guess

We know the truth - the nay sayer simply doesn't get wolfe's nonlinear and intuitive structure, which sometimes lends the appearance of formlessness and randomness to the limited

Severian is a taurus

The Exultants are all very tall with beautiful big eyes

But tall people with expressive eyes are considered attractive by modern standards? What part of that description leads people to think they're literal ayy lmaos?

Wolfe is but what is the textual basis for this?

Citadel, chapter 23, last paragraph. He dreams that he is being tended to by a bull headed man, "a constellation sprung to life." Read it.

Exultants are unnaturally tall, their eyes are larger than typical human eyes, they're too slender, they have unnaturally long fingers. Severian remarks on this stuff.

I seem to remember it being made fairly explicit that the exultants are the result of breeding with cacogens which happened in the past, as such they're "newer" than the humans lower in the hierarchy, despite the exultant families themselves clinging to their old proud family trees and so on.

I always figured that it was natural selection at play, that is tall people are attractive so they tend to breed with other tall people and avoid shorties, the difference eventually becoming more pronounced over time. Same for other traits.

Hang on, I'll look this up in my Lexicon Urthus

Mixture of selective breeding, genetic enhancement and body modification. Their ancestors were likely nobility on other planets who came to earth to have fiefs of their own. They are an invasive ruling class of humans.

I win today

Nothing personnel, kid

Yeah they are an invasive force of humans that become the new ruling class, never says that they fuck aliens

Look maybe you don't understand, I'm Mr. Juntao's lawyer, legal adviser, he got into some shit again and he told me to come down here and I'm a very busy man, ain't got time to be down here this late but I'm down here, my wife want me to come home, my baby is shittin' all over the house, he needs diapers, would you please go get Mr. Juntao?

So are they just aliens or are they alien/human hybreds that can breed with the regular lower classes? Also, does that mean that the optimates are just "watered down" exultants, i.e they have a higher percentage of human DNA?

The Exultants are not aliens nor have they fucked aliens. Aliens in The Commonwealth are feared and hated, they are derisively called "cacogens" by both commoners and nobility. Exultants are humans, just an old and exotic breed who have returned to earth.

>returned to earth
And what's to say they weren't getting it on with Ayys as they made their way among the stars?

What's to say they were?

Wouldn't you?

no

That wouldn't make them any newer to the solar system than the heirs of bloodlines from before their departure, and is too worthless a loop for these elliptic mentions

So, they're people from a whorl then?

Here is as good as any other place to ask something I've been wondering about. Why do you anons out there think there is such a dearth of fan art for New Sun, especially so when Wolfe fans are so fanatical?

I don't think it's the kind of work that supports "secondaries", Wolfe fans would rather read and discuss whereas ASOIF fans would rather draw Jamie X Brienne fanart. Also, while Wolfe fans are pretty fanatic as you said, there aren't that many of them - don't let how vocal they are fool you.

You are ridiculous. End yourself brainlet.

Its the odyssey not the ironclads

The battle between the ship and the ogre is based partially on the battle between the Monitor and the Merrimack combined with elements of Theseus

As far as I can tell, most wolfe fan tributes come in the form of stories, ie shadows of the new sun. Maybe he doesn't appeal as much to visual artists.

The exultants -- which includes Thecla and her sisters -- are probably the biggest one. They're definitely very (unnaturally) tall and slender. I think Severian mentions Thecla's sister is quite a bit taller than him and walks with a birdlike gait typical of exultants (I don't have the text in front of me). They're descendants of humans who returned from the stars, whether their differences are the result of selection, engineering, or hybridization is left ambiguous. The use of "extrasolar breeding stock" is mentioned as a possibility in one of the appendices.

Jolenta isn't just voluptuous, she's a land whale. When he has to carry her around at one point, Severian -- who's a tall, built guy himself -- says she might weight as much as he does. He also says that her breasts at the size of his head.

When talking to Jonas, Severian asks why, if the dying earth has changed certain objects so much, why haven't humans changed? Jonas doesn't answer, but "the look on his face told me that I was a fool; that we had changed".

>Jolenta isn't just voluptuous, she's a land whale. When he has to carry her around at one point, Severian -- who's a tall, built guy himself -- says she might weight as much as he does. He also says that her breasts at the size of his head.

shes meaty but that might not be enough to increase her weight in itself. it probably has to do with parts of her being replaced with metal, via talus's enhancements.

I'm inclined to believe a lot of what Talos did was pheromones and shit as well as cosmetics

so you dont remember the part where sev discovers exposed wires in her?

>as well as
nigger can you even read?

There are a few indications in the text that things we would consider revolting and perverted are the new normal on Severian's Urth. Wolfe does this in an interesting way, by having Severian claim nothing of the sort occurred when in our culture the mere possibility would never even be mentioned. Like in the third book when he's looking after little Severian, who can't be more than eight or nine years old, he writes that "There had been no sexual play between the boy and me, as I believe there had at some time been between Dorcas and Jolenta..." Now imagine in your own life you're taking care of a nine year old boy; would you EVER write a line like that one? Of course not because the thought would never even cross your mind. It's a very artful way of indicating that Urth's morality has degenerated.

Shit yeah I forgot about that. It didn't even register at the time, I guess I was distracted by the Dorcas/Jolenta bit

Other user is wrong. Cerberus, Peace, then Solar Cycle. Ideas in Solar Cycle are first explored in his earlier work.

>pheromones and shit as well as cosmetics

>nigger can you even read?

apparently you cant

your posts only addressed cosmetics, which are defined as being only surface level, not compatible with inner machinery, and additionally, "pheremones and shit" covers only biological additions.

nothing you said is grammatically tied toward indicating your post was compatible with the robotics shade of jolenta.

keep backtracking.

>what is cosmetic surgery

What was with people who talked like "as the X said to the Y"

Is it a sailing thing? Everyone who talks like that is a sailor of some sorts, but sev guesses it's a regional thing. Is this just another case of him being retarded?

Also is miles Jonas? It certainly doesn't seem like it, given that Jonas didn't even die

How is this Shadows of the New Sun?

yes, cosmetic, which even in machinery like cars, refers to outward changes. you didn't say robotic surgery, in which case would have been fine.

you're an idiot. just admit you didn't know what you're talking about.

>cosmetics on cars: bits of metal added that change appearance but not function
>cosmetics on Jolenta: bits of metal added that change appearance but not function
Really activates the fucking almonds ey?

>>cosmetics on Jolenta: bits of metal added that change appearance but not function

But if you actually read it, her internal organs appear to have been replaced with wires and other machinery. And nothing on her outside was replaced with metal, otherwise the reveal would have just been an obvious conclusion. You're just being a weasel, because you're an autist who won't admit being wrong.

Again, keep backtracking.

hey buddy how did you misread things this badly

if you can't even into basic crit wolfe is not for you

Internal or external it doesn't change the fact that they served to alter her appearance rather than function, making them C O S M E T I C

Angel's Egg was heavily influenced by Wolfe, so I disagree.

it's worth it

I also disagree, clearly Wolfe fans can get quite visual

>3 Wolfe Moon
Haven't seen that one in a while

Its good. A bunch of stories in tribute of gene. Best if you've read A LOT of his stuff, the authors make cheeky references to a disperate works in his catalogue.

Is this true!? Are there proofs?

which i was not arguing against

you're just grasping at straws now

Interview with Yoshitaka Amano somewhere.

That's exactly what you wet arguing against retard, you got flustered over my (correct) use of the term cosmetics.

but wait!

?

He also did the covers for the Japanese edition of the New Sun and some artwork.

these shirts were a 00s* thing

Shit was meant for I remember 3 Wolf Moon, I wonder will it ever make a comeback? Like will there be kids in 2040 saying "the 00s were awesome I was born in le wrong generation check out this retro vintage 3 Wolf Moon shirt I got so quirky"

I loved The Sailor Who Sailed After The Sun

But what is this Book Of That Which Is In Tuet? Closest definition I could find for "tuet" at the library is "lizard or lizard-like".
See how a really good story or poem gets into your head and makes you wonder things?

I'll be damned, such a thing really exists. Thank you.