Why do the Irish punch above their weight so much in literature?

Why do the Irish punch above their weight so much in literature?

it just clicks for us

t. Irish-American

It's in their culture and genetic makeup to be poetic.

begrudgery is a motivator

they don't, there are maybe 6 well known Irish writers, and that's only to English speakers

there are more good Scottish writers than Irish

It's the potatoes.

are you going to name names or run with your tail between your legs?

Its in the Irish blood, its been a country famed for poets and scholars since ancient times.
The Irish condition seems to be towards having a natural inclination towards a sublime madness, no other people is so comfortable with their own insanity among each other than the Irish, combine that with a strong sense of freedom and personal identity and you have the perfect mind for a writer

Kelman, Doyle, Banks, Scott, Burns, Stevenson, Gray, Warner, Welsh, Robertson

Literally who?

pleb

le Joyce and Beckett man, I am so well read x)

>being this poorly read

embarrassing

>its my responsibility to know all your precious local heroes

you asked for good Scottish writers and got thoroughly btfo, leave the thread before you embarrass yourself further

If they're so good how come I've never seen a single thread about any of them

because you're a pleb and still not well read enough to know that Veeky Forums doesn't even talk about good literature, it's mostly just wanking off philosophers and high school English test books

Irish aren't white.

Huh if you say so Angus

okay tyrone mcnegro

...

Do Americans really do this?

Im right. Your wrong

Godot?

Alpha Anglos have cucked the Irish into being lit-slaves, endlessly bound to write great works .... in English!

>in English!

*Bloque ton chemin*

Ayyy lmao

Only Joyce alone wipes the floor any day of the wekk with all those medium names you mentioned.

where should i start w/scottish lit?

nah, Joyce only wrote two good novels and a collection of short stories (Finnegans Wake is a failure)

but I can tell you're a limited reader, Joyce and Beckett are probably the only Irish writers you know

Influential but somewhat overrated writer with a very limited output

>quantity over quality

nah, Ulysses and a couple of the stories in Dubliners is all Joyce wrote that is high enough quality to re-read, Portrait is too romantic and juvenile

>Joyce only wrote two good novels

Yeah man, that's a nice way to say that he wrote the best book of a whole fucking century.

I Rofling hard, do you really want to bring more names to the discussion?

Sterne
Swift
Shaw
Wilde
Yeats

These, unlike the lows you mentioned, are all considered unique minds and truly did build what we can call the work of a genius, hell, even I can bring the ones like Stoker or Le fanu, and those alone have contributed much more to the canon and history of literature that any of the names you mentioned. But, as I said, that's not necessary, Joyce did archivied miles more with his writing in only one page or a sentence than anyone on your list.

Scotland

A poem By Scotty Scott

Ah luve Scotlund
Scotlund is greayt
Its manly
An' Scottish
It has mount'ns
Manly Scottish mount'ns
Not wee English mount'ns
Ahm Scottish

relying on Joyce is classic small country syndrome, every country with a small output relies on that one writer that is included in the canon

>Sterne
>Swift
>Wilde
all overrated writers, and they were British, not Irish, Swift in particular is fucking awful

The island suffered far less invasions than areas on the mainland. Although Ireland is proverbially conquered and beaten down, if you look at the statistics, compared to say Sicily, Ireland has simply had far longer between a serious incursion, which allows literary traditions to survive.

>Why do the Irish punch above their weight so much in literature?
Well there's so much they're poor at - science, tech, finance, philosophy, cooking, growing potatoes
I guess they had to be good at something

>and they were British

Ireland never existed in their lifetimes I'm afraid

They were Irish and British you fucking retard. Just like you are Scottish and British. Now please fuck off and procure some heroin.

you are right but making the frankly ridiculous statement that George Bernard Shaw is of greater canonical importance than Robert Burns and Walter Scott weakens your argument.

Ingrained suffering and misery make for good prose.

>Swift in particular is fucking awful

I lol

Well, look who is the "limited reader" after all. Let me guess, you just watched a hollywood movie telling the story of Gulliver and you think you already know Swift, or was it your mom who told you that little tale about the the lilliputians? kek... Swift is great idiot, I really doubt you have read him nor understand him whatsoever.

dumb ellipses poster

Great literature is borne great suffering, and the Irish, the Irish have suffered a lot.

>JOYCE BRO BEST BOOKS EVER BRO
Please shut the fuck up

Don't be resentful of the truth

Irish vowel sounds are designed for assonance to a greater degree than Russian. Read Nabokov's Notes on Prosody, and combine that with a Catholic education system focused on classics and multilingualism.

guinness

Guinness is Good for You was thought up by Dorothy L Sayers and most of their market is abroad.

>they don't know about the Hibernian conspiracy

No wonder we're called the Golden isle.

Many islands have an intense and unique culture

Only it did, 2/3 of them were born in the Kingdom of Ireland before it was integrated into the UK.

Oscar Wilde was born in the UK, but you may as well say that English people don't exist today if this is your logic.

Portrait of the Artist as a Young Boy was alright. Rest of his ouvre wasn't good. None of Beckett's ouvre was good.

>He hasn't ever just sat there staring at a sentence of Ulysses in shock

Scots are like Jews without the high IQ, best disregarded

start with the picts

Why do you use oeuvre when you can't even spell it. I'm also tempted to believe you're not fully familiar with either man's work.

nice projection

the Kingdom of Ireland was an English territory m8, they were English

only as English as Indians were English, Ireland is just the closest part of the former colonies.

Don't waste your time, he's an unserious person

>was an English territory m8, they were English
m8 don't say m8 if you've never seen a pub landlord
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYiOCctlPR0

They don't. The only good Irish writer is Joyce.
Yeats, Beckett, Shaw, Wilde, etc- all anglo irish

hahahahah literal whos

>Wilde is anglo
kek, you haven't even read Wilde

Besides, O'Brien is better than Joyce.

>Welsh
Best not be Irvine, user. There is nothing memorable about his edgy, poor man's Hubert Selby Jr act.

>every country with a small output relies on that one writer that is included in the canon
Meh, this argument can be used for any country with one, let alone two, writers in the canon.

If you mean Flann than yes, his writing is far more enjoyable. As poetic? No.

>Besides, O'Brien is better than Joyce.
irish iq

High amount of Catholics.

Irish Americans are annoying fuck wads that are unironically proud of their heritage, they think it makes them different. Just like Americans that tell you they're 1/8 Indian (it's more like 1/32) they just want to be special and different. It has pissed me off my whole life but yes, it is an American thing.

>what are nationalities

>in English!
Bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunnt-rovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!

...

>As poetic? No.
Is this a joke about him writing bad poetry on purpose in At Swim?
>irish iq
Is this a joke about his German lyrics in Cruiskeen Lawn?

>McWho
>O'Who
>Stwhoart
>Whonderson
>Whoman
>Whoanks

Who?

>all overrated writers, and they were British, not Irish

The lowly Scot, on being confronted with his inherent inferiority, retreats to the comfortable motte of "British" identity. In this way, he can avoid knowing himself, living in a state of Narcisstic innocence, as he clings to the coat-tails of English greatness.

uh, you don't get to bring rhymes

Forgetting one of the greatest writers of the 20th century? Plebs, plebs everywhere.

Anglo-Irish means fuck all in real terms and has done since before the flight of the earls, they considered themselves Irish, that's enough.

serious question: how do you all find the time to be so well read? if you're familiar with 7 great scottish authors chances are you're familiar with hundreds of great writers from all manner of countries right? How much do you have to read of an author to be familiar with them? How the fuck can any employed person find the time to read even 100 essential canonical english language novels? A-anons, I'm trying...

idk who this dude is but I really like his face and he's irish so where should Istart?

Honestly my dude, it just gets easier. If you're struggling with some litcore doorstopper, rest assured knowing you'll eventually be able to mow down a couple of 700 pages bad boys in a week (I can do it while studying, having a gf and irregular jobs here and there, so can you)

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE fuck you

>you'll eventually be able to mow down a couple of 700 pages bad boys in a week

holy fuck man

>(I can do it while studying, having a gf and irregular jobs here and there, so can you

i'm not saying i dont believe you, but i don't want to believe you. do you skim read? every time i come to the board i feel intimidated and stupid

I don't skim at all. The biggest problem for people who aren't used to read is probably the constant distractions. Just take some time and SEPARATE it for reading, away from all your devices and other distractions. Instead of playing 2 hours of vidya, play half an hour and read an hour and a half, take your time and you'll eventually just start reading faster. I don't know if you commute, but I do and I usually read 50 pages going to school and another 50 coming back home, 100 pages a day is more than necessary.
What about the 700 pages left? Weekends and time on the shitter is for that, plus that hour you separated.

i read like 40 pages a day from commute, fair point. i just know i'm so far off being well read that it feels like im withdrawing from the present by immersing myself in old writing. does age have any bearing on a text's worth? no maybe not but the effect is still isolating. i have to git gud.

Because they are all bitter, depressed alcoholics living in an ironically idyllic pastoral landscape.

German-American here, idk wtf you guise are talking about

...

>Anglo-Irish means fuck all in real terms and has done since before the flight of the earls, they considered themselves Irish, that's enough.
Many of them called themselves Englishmen

A good thing to do is not force yourself to read stuff you don't want to out of some sense of obligation. You'll get interested / ready for more complex or older stuff once you're acquainted enough with literature, and the best way to do it is at your own pace and reading what you want (don't force yourself out of some delicious PKD because you haven't read the Upanishads yet). Eventually, references from other works, essays (a example I can't help but mention is Emily Brontë, only once I read Bataille's reading of her work I managed to sit down and try to understand it), while some shit simply isn't for you (I for one simply can't read Dostoievsky). Just take it easy and look for secondary stuff if you get particularly stuck or appalled or confused by something.
Also, some good (fiction) authors who are both easy to read, have historical significance / "accepted" merit and also reference a lot of works (which will help you branch out) are Eco, Perec and Borges.

Thank you man. I'll keep at it. Ironically i'm an english minor but you know how that goes, you don't need to read every text they recommend you when secondary lit + quotes pulled from random pages works just as good. Borges confuses the fuck out of me, his writing is so dry and overwrought to me. though everyone keeps recommending him so i'll try again

god bless you

most of them lived their entire lives in England, received English educations and only spoke English, there was really nothing Irish about them

Oh no he's up there with my all time favs but he's just not as purposefully poetic. Joyce strikes me as a writer writing as an artist. O'Brien is a writer writing a story. His characters and stories are far more interesting IMO.

50 pages a day gets through most books in a week user. As for nationality, I learn about it after I've read it. I don't really go out, say, looking for Ukrainian lit.

>O'Brien is a writer writing a story
He one of the most purposeful stylists of the 20th Century. Ryder by Barnes is probably the only thing that comes close for imitative styling like At Swim. The whole book is part critique and part homage to poetry from classics to incompetence, and it's his most obviously pro-Joyce work. Huxley, Joyce, and Catullus all get dropped in new forms or cited directly as inspiration within the first few pages, so I'm hoping that's not really a spoiler.

Oh dont worry I've read a lot of O'Brien.

I read like twice as slow when I read non-fiction than when I read fiction. Dunno why. Think it has to do with visualization, reading fiction it feels like I speed-read cause I stop reading and (eventually after a few pages) start "watching" instead, per se.

It's almost always a bong who gets butthurt about an American saying he is Irish on pol or int. It's practically a meme by this point. On the other hand, you would get massively butthurt if some of your Jamaicans and Pakis started calling themselves English.

Personally I don't identify with a particular group because some of my family goes back to the 17th century here, so I'm proud just to say I'm American without any hyphens. We used to exclude a lot of Irish and Italians, hence their saying "Irish-American" or "Italian-American." Now, however, not many of those people have much of a discernible difference between the rest of us American-Americans.

they don't, it's just a meme meant to make the inhabitants of an irrelevant shithole feel better about themselves. same thing with le scottish inventors meme.

>ireland was making latin memes in the 16th C
that really doesn't make them look less competent desu

I have a bullshit theory based on nothing but having lived there. I think it's because most of the Irish people are complete fucking mongoloids. The average IQ of Ireland being 90.
Most of the best Irish writers became reclusive or at the very least felt like outsiders to their homeland.

Lot of truth in this too.