Bi-weekly reminder to be nice to one another

Nice way to imply that 2666 is actually genre garbage for pseuds, OP
Smooth operator

Yeah, it's completely unproductive. It's funny that we're horribly mean to people who are trying to engage in discussions about literature that 97% of the world's population could not care less about.

Fuck off, im not goibg to pad you on your shouldera for trying. Eceryone ob this site are worthless worms and deserve ro be treated accordingly.

Except me of course

The anonymity of Veeky Forums makes kindness a near impossibility. It's futile to even try. The embittered and ignoble thrive in places without tangible consequences for their actions.

That's why it's on us to try and create a positive and productive community. Without action, this place falters. But when we try to discuss honestly and without prejudice, to simply talk about something we all like, then we have the chance to make a good change to ourselves and the board.

You can be part of the problem if you want, but that would be a choice of yours: don't find justifications in the behaviour of others. Be a model instead, and champion your beliefs.

Let's make Veeky Forums great again.

We should be nice towards plebs. /pol/tards should be either ostracized aggressively or ignored: if one chooses to respond to them, he should do so by writing good comprehensive posts, and then stop debating him, so that no baiting and flaming will arise.
Plebs should be helped, and words such as pleb and philistine should be used in a camraderish context, to signal that yes, he is a pleb and yes, he should be humble, yet this is only a temporary condition, which can be overcome through education and discipline.

This definitely

Probably reddit. I'd imagine the voting system keeps the threads on topic with no shitposting, at the expense of humour and probably general fun

This but unironically

bump

A certain level of combativeness and elitism is necessary to keep the quality high(even though we're reaching rock-bottom in terms of quality, but for different reasons). If you don't tell genre-fiction readers to go back to sffg, or tell YA readers that their books are garbage and they should start with the greeks, discourse will be lowered to the level where John Greene and other equally bad authors are considered worth discussing. It is through competition that things grow stronger, become more refined, more efficient, and removing that element through being overly kind is a quick way to turn Veeky Forums into r/books. If anything we need more elitism, not less.

this. the problem is mostly /pol/, secondly reddit getting a hold of that chart a couple years ago, and the site-wide crush of phoneposting normies is tertiary.

I think we need to ignore /pol/, all their shit is bait and not about books anyway. but telling e.g. John Green or Harry Potter posters to fuck off was standard practice back when we were great.

But I agree with OP's first three sentences, though. If you're a good enough writer, you should be able to craft a burn that makes the pleb want to get on your level.

This. It's not saying very much, but this is probably the Internet's premier highbrow discussion board.

It's the general cuntishness that keeps us elite. If we start head-patting this will become a Harry Potter board.
You limp-dick dogfucker

There's a space between "head-patting" and being a jerk.

This user has the correct idea. Criticize, without being rude.

Mods should ban jewposting when it's completely unrelated. If the first post about a thread about Spinoza is about his Jewish heritage, that post should be banned. At this point the baiting is apparent, and the mods should counteract it.
This of course applies only to thise threads in which the Jewish heritage of the author is not the main topic, and if it interests you so much, open another thread instead.

I'm so fucking tired of stormfags raids, I just want to discuss literature in a coherent manner.

personally i think that even if we should or should not make more of an effort to be kinder or ruder, we should at least be considerate enough to remember that there are probably understandable reasons for someone to be a moron or ignorant. What we should focus on is making the attempt to hear them out before you eviscerate them.

If this is really the last place people can talk about literature, then the standard should be that you /do/ get to talk and take something away from it before you get shit on.

THIS

I reckon newfags are confused by the two hundred layers of irony some Anons operate on.

You're the one who got duped into thinking that there are 200 layers of irony. It's just people saying edgy shit, and when someone calls you out you either dismiss them as being not cool enough, or you make up an excuse on the spot and pretend that it was all part of a masterplan.

I do no such things. I try to be as sincere as I can.
It just irks me when Anons reply in a manner like this: >falling for the Joycean meme; instead of giving arguments. I reckon newfags must get somewhat confused over what should they read, and to say: «read it and find out if it's good» is not valid, because there are millions of books and one can't read them all to find out if they were worth reading. Veeky Forums is, sometimes, a good place to get recommendations, but only if you can tell whether Anons are being honest or not, that's not easy for a newfag.

>reddit gets fed up with opinions on /r/books/
>migrates to Veeky Forums
>tries to turn it into /r/books

>Here is where we come to drop all pretense of civility & engage our shittier natures.

Stop shitting up the board, useless.

>I can easily rattle off 5 much better communities revolving around the discussion of literature.

No you can't.

10/10 bait, ostensibly 100% serious.

Nah but nice attempt at sounding clever and funny, funny guy

this is arguably the worst website on the surface web for discussion of any kind, 99% of the 'literary discourse' is shitposting and most of us just come here to laugh at people trying to draw a link between some jew and how they fit into the jewish master plan

>The guy making fun of anti-semitism should go to /pol/
I'll allow it

Too give up more freedom than everyone else is to place yourself beneath them.

Civility elevates the thought of all parties involved.

Daily reminder that you can find people to talk about literature with IRL.
It might be difficult based on your position but it is possible, especially so if you're a student like much of Veeky Forums.

I can't do that from my bed though.

Yes you will have to leave your bed or conversely invite people into your bed.

Reddit is overly polite. It gets in the way of discussion when everyone is too busy giving eachother handies for upboats.

reddit everyone

i've heard this said about writer's groups and i think it's toughguy bullshit. i don't use reddit, but a lot of time when you have to sign your name to something you do it with an unsigned note of respect. that is to say, i have been down this road and know that it is tough, both in learning and doing, so i will give you the benefit of the doubt. you are likely your greatest critic. so i will profess my expertise, without ever stabbing your lack thereof.

or idk maybe they're pussy faggots.

This board is nice. I don't like contrived kindness but I also don't like perpetual shitty anger. I wouldn't want too much of an etiquette building up, and calling someone a faggot or being called a nigger is kind of necessary, par the course and even affectionate.

You have the same freedom as them. Being a cunt is your choice.

>I've had zero experience in these areas
>but let me tell you what its like

Visit reddit for five minutes and you'll see how wrong you are

Kill yourself you fucking cunt

How can I be nice to anyone else when I am not even nice to myself?

It's just a stupid website get a grip people.

Veeky Forums is garbo. Reddit is garbo. 95% of the internet is garbage. You have to look for tiny micro-communities to have any good discussion of literature online.

Comparing Veeky Forums and Reddit is amusing, but it's all a wank. Saying one is better than the other is wispy and insubstantial opinion with absolutely no weight.

What the hell is "garbo"? Why can't you speak like a normal human being? How old are you, you little whiner?

>garbo
Fuck off.

Garbage. Like you. You couldn't put that together?

I'll speak how I please thank you very much.

>garbo

Oh my God

that's the difference between following and leading

lol shut up

No you

>Being kind all the time negates the unkindness that is in every human.
Having no restraint is just as bad as (if not worse than) being repressed. That humans have bad impulses and are capable of following them does not make the deed acceptable. Sublimate that energy into something else. Instead of calling someone else a faggot, show them how they are wrong.

Faggot

So you like spending your time among garbage? Are you a pig?

(Just so you don't get the last word.)

I'm just here for the lulz. xD

...

I'd rather have intelligent discussions on the impact of John Green than shitty one-liners in a thread about Gaddis. Elitism leads nowhere if you have nothing to substantiate.

The virgin bedleaver vs the bedridden chad

I really like this thread

Situation: You talk about YA authors and their effect on the industry. The quality of discourse is high even if the subject matter is sub-par; this thread is a benign cancer. People visit Veeky Forums for the first time, nubile and unacquainted with serious literature, their favourite books are harry potter and the hunger games. To their delight they see great discussions on the authors they know: JKRowling! John Green! Veronica Roth! excited they jump in, and maybe create threads of their own. They tell their friends about this great website to discuss books, Veeky Forums!, their friends join and necessarily talk about YA. What was once a benign cancer begins to enter metastasis as these threads perpetuate themselves without the input of the original members, the ones which made the quality of discussion high in the first place. The word continues to spread, and the new supple virgins to the board see a tonne of YA discussion, considering it the norm the perpetuate these threads. They aren't told to start with the greeks, they aren't told to read the meme trilogy, there is no reason or pressure for them to change their appetites. It starts to replace all literature threads, this is stage 4, as the cancer is no longer operable and continues to grow. Anyone who wishes to discuss literature, or considers YA of lower quality, begins to be called pretentious and their opinion is discarded. As with Odysseus, the suitors have taken over the house, however in this scenario there is no Athena to guide us back home. It's a numbers game from here; there are far more YA readers than literature readers, and if you yield to ravenous hordes you will have no way to beat them back when they come in numbers.
Basically Elitism helps stop the foot getting in the door in the first place. I'd rather have people shit-posting about Gaddis than no one even knowing his name. Disagree? Replace YA with shitposting and memes, and you have exactly what is happening to this board right now.

Go back to Digg

>being kind to a bunch of status striving smug dipshits

how about no?

Thanks. All this accusation of psuedointellect gets really depressing. It seems like all threads devolve at least partially into IQ shitslinging. It's boring and really reveals the insecurity of a vast portion of this board.

>garbo

Why are you simply occluding the possibility that intelligent discourse about literature can occur here?

im drnk

I agree with the sentiment

Veeky Forums is the only board I visit.
Do the other boards make threads like this commenting on how shitty that board has become?

Yes. I'm not saying it's shitty, goddamn it. I'm saying we should be nicer to one another so it doesn't become shitty.

drink plenty of water

ITT: reddit crossposters

fuck off with your positivity, desire for productivity and muh toxicness. people like you are the ones who ruin communities and give power-hungry mods the prerrogative and support to fuck things up

No. Reddit is shit, we all know reddit is shit, nobody here's a reddit cross poster. Stop using reddit as an excuse for being a faggot brainlet whose sole use of this board is to mock people's taste in literature simply because you're insecure about how poorly read you are.

>This board, believe it or not, is the last bastion of literary discourse in the "digital age." Veeky Forums is Monteparnasse in the twenties and thirties.
this level of narcissistic delusion is unhealthy. If you believe this you have never been to a decent university and probably not been outside.

you're obsession with enforcing polite discourse makes me think you're also an autistic pussy ass coward.

>le pol boogeyman
lmao return to r/books you kike bitch

this is Veeky Forums, not your faggot-ass lowbrow circlejerk subreddit. stop trying to socially engineer Veeky Forums; we won't become another castrated sanitized YA book club just because embryonic newfags like you can't take the heat

>nobody here could possibly be reddit
fuck you discussion cuck

Okay. Go back to college and learn about Shakespeare's latent antisemitism and Kafka's homosexuality. That's how literature is meant to be discussed.

>says the word cuck

Sorry you never fit in with anyone in your actual life outside of /pol/. Consider necking yourself

Niceness and "safe spaces" are what killed literary discourse in the first place, so fuck you, cocksucker.

Imagine no longer, reddit is shit. Veeky Forums seems like it should be the worst but if you actually browse other places you will see OP is right.

sounds like I hit a nerve, lel

t. OP

t. edgy twelve year old who is going through his "hates reddit phase"

reddit is based! If you don't like it it's probably because you're an anti semite who rollplays with his nazi friends and gets banned.

Reddit is a great website generally speaking. That said, /r/books is complete and utter trash. /r/lit used to be okay, but now it's essential 1 or 2 average articles posted a day and very few meaningful discussions. /r/canonade had a light resurgence but then farted its final fart.

There is simply no literature community on reddit worth visiting at the present time

/r/literature, not /r/lit

@10077925
He didn't even say /pol/, you've fallen for le le pol boogeyman boogeyman

Are there any places left online where I can discuss things without ignoring political sperging out? I can't stand this place anymore.

No. Fully 50% of all social media posts are delivered by ideological automated bots - essentially drowning out all interesting discussion. Real life is the only place where ideas can be exchanged in a meaningful fashion, assuming you can find people capable of saying anything interesting to begin with.

There's two huge problems with your take on elitism.

The first is that memeing a book is not a sign of having read it, because memeing by definition is low effort. What this leads to is an endless echo chamber of low quality posts that can technically go on forever. And not only does mindlessly memeing books not certainly mean people will read it, but after a time even that itch might lose steam. Remember the Meme Trilogy? Yeah, me neither.

This is the current state of Veeky Forums, with a few occasional expections.

Now the second problem is it makes discussion rigid. There's only so much that can be said about a work of art, and then there's so much that hasn't been said about great works of art; it's possible that someone could come up with a better reading, but it shouldn't be expected. Furthermore, carelessly to brand everything under a label as from the get go undersirable, is unwise. We could very well miss something very good just because it's "genre fiction" or whatever subtilized is in vogue. It also leads us into the problem of authority. Do we want to give the whole authority of the board to college proffesors or do we want to take it for ourselves? Who gets to say what stays and goes?

I think people should be allowed to defend what they consider good. What we should strive for is not a standard of taste but a standard of discourse. Even bad or mediocre books can be discussed productively, if you have a sense of the greater picture. Likewise, if good ones couldn't be discussed badly, then high school literature classes would actually be effective.

As for the numbers problem, it's kind of a false equivalency. Given the structure of this site, a loud majority can (and often has) made the difference. Not only that, writing allows for much more calm and thoughtful responses, which is precisely what the uneducated and the passionlead cannot follow upon.

The problem of Veeky Forums has that it is in a site that functions in the opposite way of what this board is about. Books are not conductive to the seasonal hypes that characterize other, larger boards. So we should not follow their example and instead look elsewhere. We should do away with empty threads and empty posts which elicit automatic responses in the reader and instead work towards slower dayly, even weekly discussions which do exercise the capabilities we want to make ours. And we should do away with the instinct that any response should be a hostile one, otherwise this turns into a hugbox. Then perhaps, we could come off our screens feeling satisfied instead of wasteful.

I don't care about this moronic virgin thread, i just came here to say that the skinnier girl in the image has nice toes.

Veeky Forums, smaller and medium sized boards, is essentially an internet magazine, with content sourced from a community, curated by a culture of people in ways that are not explicitly shown (upvotes, downvotes). Elements of chance are combined with familiarity and total freedom in discussion (anonymity, lax mods)..

At a small to medium size, relative to large boards, the censorship on a board is largely in the hands of the culture, but in a non-quantitative, more mysterious way than simple upvotes and downvotes.

This is why Veeky Forums small boards have so much "edge", mistaken for elitism: the community and culture, to reinforce its own standards, has to be dickish. They can't downvote you, so they try to make you feel like an outsider through special jargon, or an expression that your viewpoint is naive and that everybody knows full well why liking X is for chumps, or make you look like a fool by baiting you into a "no u faggot" contest, or whatever else they can do through text to bother you and reinforce their standards.

The problem is really one of scale. When there are so many people, to be heard at all means to say something brief, and rely on cheaper forms of quantitative feedback. Cultural reinforcement of an ideal is replaced with some form of mass culture, which can be seen on reddit and the larger boards of Veeky Forums. Quantitative feedback begins to dominate over qualitative (post replies, upvotes/downvotes), and soon, everybody is posting but nobody is really talking. Entire threads look like bots could have written them.

So if you have a problem with Veeky Forums's culture, then I don't think it has anything to do with something preventable, or some great moral failing. It's just an increase in scale. There's nothing you can do.

So you want Veeky Forums to become reddit? Might as well implement upvotes and dowvotes, faggot. No thanks.

>They can't downvote you, so they try to make you feel like an outsider through special jargon, or an expression that your viewpoint is naive and that everybody knows full well why liking X is for chumps
This takes me to a pertinent phenomenon: copypasta.

I think copypasta is one of those institutions we've lost with time. In a sense, the modern shitpost is a micro version of copypasta, but it's lacking the extension of argument that gave copypasta its capacity for trolling. The trolling of copypasta consisted precisely in that it would make the other side think you had gone through the effort of making an argument. This illusion, however, is broken by the screencap, which puts out an old argument with sincerity, as the answer to a question, thread or new person -- screencapping in itself being a gesture of legitimacy.

This takes me to the second point: there is technically no proscription against copypasta. The modification of a piece of text changing only the relevant parts is quite common and well accepted (pic). However, pure copypasta is perfectly usable if a poster does not want to make the effort to respond originally to a repetitive topic, or if they do not have a better argument than that of the copypasta. Likewise, an original, aware response to a copypasta isn't something that is bad of itself: the reinstation of problems is conductive to their solution. In the end, to obligate people to always overpower loweffort posts is to not make good use of the technology we have.

There's always the archives and lurking as well; but that'd be a matter for another post.

>When there are so many people, to be heard at all means to say something brief, and rely on cheaper forms of quantitative feedback.
As far as I see, it's a feedback loop. Low entry levels means even more people will come.

>garbo
SHE JUST WANTS TO BE LEFT ALONE