Just been thinking about this alot lately. Not really talking about any specific god, just any being whos supposedly perfect and all powerful. The way I see it there's basically two reasons god could have created life. 1 It wants something 2 it needs something.
I don't think it's the second one, since if it was all powerful it would never need anything. But isn't the first one kind of selfish? Even if you give it the benifit of the doubt and say it created life so it could see it prosper. Isn't it kind of selfish to do so knowing all of the pain and suffering involved with survival in this world. All just so god can be happy. Admittedly life has its high notes. But if I were creating something and I knew that 95 percent of it was going to be awful for everyone other than myself and a lucky handfull, then why do it at all?
when you bring hell into the equation God is truly a huge asshole. literally creating souls knowing they will feel intense pain for an infinite amount of time
i personally like the Hindu idea that he is bored and decides to dream. he creates reality to pass the time so to speak. he first lives out any and every amazing fantasy he can imagine. after he becomes bored with that, he started coming up with random things. a human, a tree, the sun, whatever it might be, and lives a life this way, and then starts again. this goes on until he finally wakes up and simply is
God Loves and is Love and wants to share that Love.
All major characters of the Bible suffer. And Jesus, the central figure of the bible and God Incarnate, is often shown nailed to a cross and writhing in agony as he slowly dies.
Ever see a volunteer sharing deep joy with those he's helping even if they are destitute or in pain? That is God working through man.
Offer a very hungry homeless man a sandwich with pickles, he refuses because he hates pickles, you offer again, he refuses stating he'd rather starve to death than eat pickles, eventually you just let him alone and he starves to death because he refused the sandwich because of the pickles.
That man is in a state of hell, rejection of a good freely offered and being turned over to his own devices. Hell isnt a prison God damns you to, it's him saying, "if you don't want my Love, fine. I'm not going to make you take it" and then being miserable because God, being the source of all Love is denying you love per your own request.
So god created man so he could watch as others ease their suffering? Or he created the entire universe so he could show them all how awesome "love" is. And if god IS love then he created everything so he could show them how awesome he is? Still seems selfish maybe even vain.
Prove a god would have motivations at all.
If you're coming to the conclusion God is Selfish, you need to reevaluate your idea of God.
motivation in the sense you describe is exclusively derived from lack, which would not apply to god. it's a concept that might as easily as not have been created exclusively for us. if things like time exist where it does not? ...it's hard to even make guesses about something that abstract.
Nothing, he just set the universe in motion and let it go from there. He doesn't intervene, just watches His creation grow.
>2016 >not being a Deist
If it didn't have any motivations at all, I would classify it as more of a force than a being. Like gravity or something. For now let's just assume it's a being.
>2016 >believing in something transcendent that can intentionally create and watch
You can't have joy and love without pain and suffering. One without the other would just be one consistent state of existing and, if you always exist in the same state, what's the difference between existence and nonexistence?
>What motivates god? The imagination of shysters and shitbags.
protip: he only exists in people's heads
Just creating existence just to watch it grow would probably be just as selfish and vain. It's like me cloning a billion horribly deformed sheep just to inflate my own ego.
You think your god doesn't lack self-fulfillment and independence? He's a petty prick who created people for the express purpose of groveling in front of him.
Stop projecting your horrible view of humanity
>It's like me cloning a billion horribly deformed sheep just to inflate my own ego Pride is God's robe.
>stop properly applying characteristics, only my idealized nonsense characterization of god applies
Why the fuck would god need to work through man. If I built a car, why would I use other cars to work on it. And if I were a god, why would I waste my time creating an imperfect being that needs to be improved upon in the first place?
It's not just humanity. The entire world is drenched in blood 24/7. There is not a single minute that goes by without one creature slaughtering another in order to stay alive. I think we can both agree that being killed and eaten is not exactly desirable.
God isn't all-powerful. He created Adam to be his helper (Adam's job was to till god's garden). Look it up.
>In the day that the Lord[g] God made the earth and the heavens, 5 when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; 6 but a stream would rise from the earth, and water the whole face of the ground— 7 then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground,[h] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
>15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it.
It sounds ridiculous but it makes more sense when you realize that god doesn't exist and that he is just the fictional invention of a bunch of nomadic iron-age tribesmen who had no mathematics or written language.
It's not much of a good if he hates pickles. That and no one would rather starve than eating pickles they would just remove the pickles. I do think like mayonnaise but I will eat a sandwich with it if I am hungry enough. Having gods love has far more detestable conditions than icky foods. I will accept gods love if I can remove the pickles.
Hah. Learn something new every day.
Oh great, he made us all so we could be slaves and do his grunt work. How nice of him.
>I take the stories of the Old Testament literally >I'm too stupid to understand symbolism
That's right, boy. Not get back to the field before you get another taste of the whip.
>biblehub.com/genesis/2-15.htm Hahahahahaha. This is even more ridiculous than the iron chariots thing, I really should get around to reading this trite book just for shits and giggles.
>put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it This simply means that He gave him something to do.
You must hate Jesus' parables. Grow up.
>i only take the least falsifiable parts literally, making my ideology fall apart
>symbolism triggers me It shows kiddo.
Symbolism strips your religion of the religious part of it. Your pseudo-intellectual babble is what triggers me.
>see I'm not violating child labor laws by sending my kid to the factory, he just needed something to do. He was getting so bored after school
Are you just pretending to be retarded?
>Symbolism strips your religion of the religious part of it weak bait
>my god is a metaphor That's about as good as saying he doesn't exist, christfaggot.
>stories of the Old Testament
>stories Paul took Adam and Eve as literal people. he justified women's inferior place by that Eve had been decieved by the serpent. Jesus (of the gospels at least) took Moses, Elijah and Abraham as literal people. how do you draw the line between actually true and "metaphor"?
Is this bait or what? Genesis was transparently symbolism even to the ancient Hebrews. For fuck’s sake, "Adam" literally just means "human" or "humanity". Gee, could it be that this guy named "humanity" symbolizes humanity? I wonder!
I like how you say this, and yet after thousands of years of rationalizations it's not transparently symbolism to a vast majority of people who believe this.
And you're still left with everything your god does being metaphor. Enjoy your book of fiction, but don't then pretend there's some divine truth to it.
>Genesis was transparently symbolism even to the ancient Hebrews if it was they wouldn't have bothered to to give humanity a whole genealogy from Adam including the number of years each person in the line lived. outrageously long lives can be found in sumerian kings lists. it was a common theme at the time to think that people in the past lived super fucking long. also I'd love to hear how to make the literal giants called the Nephillim and the sons of Anak that Israelites fought at various times into a "metaphor"
It created us so it could see itself, experience itself.
1. If it's all powerful it would be able to see and experience itself without us.
2. It would have to be pretty fucking full of itself.
That's deep, mang. But what if it's nothing, and we literally came from nothing. Woah.
Everything comes from nothing, nothing is perfect, and nothing lasts forever.
>it's not transparently symbolism to a vast majority of people who believe this The word you're looking for is: proddies
Why is there something instead of nothing?
Religious apologists have existed since before the 2000's when we started getting youtube debates with them. It's curious why their apologetics never penetrated the common teachings.
>my I'm just entertaining an idea without subscribing to it. Your evident idea of God, however, is pointless and uncompelling.
Because there can be.
>my It's not my idea, it's the idea of an overwhelming majority of christfags. I don't know about your idea of god without you defining it first, all I can do is refer to something widely believed.
Better than be a lazy fat ass like his old man. Work builds character.
I hate to be that guy, but... I mean, we're all thinking it.. women pretty much have been established as inferior, am I right?
they are desu
Okay, so say your down a cliff and god throes you a rope. It's like you saying "waah, climbing a rope is hard, float me up the cliff" and god says "if you don't climb the rope, you're gonna fall down the cliff" So, you can save yourself, gods not gonna do all the work for you. I guess.
Except god threw you down the cliff first.
It is really retarded to even hope we can answer this question. If I were to come up with an answer though, just for the sake of it, I would say God does what he does because he is pure love and therefore by his own nature creates us and sustains us.
So, God is all lonely. >>God makes man >>God sees man is basically a sheep >>man decides not to be a sheep and finds reason in the difference between good and evil >>God wants man, now with reason, to choose to be with him I so r ta see that.. like, a loving wife is better than a sex doll that has a recorder lodged in its mouth saying "ooh, your a big boy
And then he's pissed that man doesn't love his genocidal, petty and insecure attitude.
So God is just playing a universe-sized game of Dwarf Fortress?
Shitty analogy. God out me on the cliff face to begin with. The rope is also made of razors and highly aggressive fire ants. A quick death might be preferable to that suffering. My analogy is not perfect but it is better than yours.
An artist has the urge to do anything, regardless of its implications, simply to express their emotions. Besides, when you consider the fact that God is beyond existence, and probably has been for an infinite amount of time, you realize how bored one could be.
In my eyes god needed a reason to exist
My reasons for thinking so are thus
We are made in the form of god We naturally desire meaning Exestential crisis fucks people up People usually make meaning for themselves afterwords Therefore god desired meaning therefore created everything
My idea of god is more human than others. Look how no one else but humans and god have such intense emotions and the like. If we are made in his image then surely we act like him in some way.
What about aliens who look nothing like us. Your conception of God is lame,but somehow manages to keep the Christian arrogance that a god would choose a form anything like ours
Motivation comes from desire, you're giving human charachteristics to something that is not humanfrom its mere concept.
maybe he doesnt exist?
How can you try to rationalize what a supreme being does ? That makes no sense ? You think that any human can make an understanding of one ? That's like an ant trying to figure out the actions of an aeroplane.
>I do think like mayonnaise Yes my friend, you surely do.
>You think that any human can make an understanding of one? Sure, try us.
No it isn't. It's like a sapient being capable of reason trying to figure out the actions of another being. That kind of reasoning is just a theistic cop-out.
Well then thank God you aren't God,
>ITT: prideful humans ordering their thoughts around faulty notions of justified disobedience
I don't know, and I can't know, but I know that it's going to work out someway
Okay, think about explaining sight to a person without eyes. Imagine being blind for a second. You don't see darkness, you see nothing! So if I can have that much disconnect with a member of my own species on a sensory level, how can I possibly understand what is supposed to be omniscient?
Why, have you been smote recently?
Not an argument.
He gave my girlfriend herpes from sitting on a bus.
That's just what she told you.
>So if I can have that much disconnect with a member of my own species on a sensory level Through human ingenuity (or barbarity) we CAN figure out exactly what that feels like though. Are you saying it's possible, we just need to figure out how to do it (which we have the capacity to)?
We can sever and reconnect the optic nerve through surgery or accidentally and completely understand what seeing "nothing" means. You're making a really good case for the human mind user.
Good boy. Now sit.
Nothing could be more arrogant than believing you personally are the point of the entire Multiverse.
What motivates Superman?
He's just trying to impress Lois.
He wants. Simply as that.
By the way, if you want to find GOD, do take good care into looking at the supposed "devil" of the bible. Whom the "god" of the bible says is opposing him, whom jesus said won against.
The bible claims the world is in the hands of the devil and that scripture was changed.
Isn't it obvious where GOD was placed?
Don't believe me? Who is more like jesus and less like the devil? Who is more like the "god" of the bible and less like the alleged satan?
Why would GOD not be prideful, arrogant, lustful, boaster? Sexually "perverted". And those things the "god" of the bible call evil but seem insanely fun?
Why would GOD make a prostate that gives anal pleasure and then say it is not good to put dicks there?
It is obvious that your FATHER whom is loving wants you to enjoy, and anal sex doesn't have why to be bad, because HE made you gay and it IS HIS WILL.
And people always do HIS WILL. Because HE is omnipotent. It's a paradox, you have free will but at the same time you are doing what HE WANTS AND WILLS. Because it is omnipotence, every power conceivable and unconceivable.
Your desires are HIS desires, and no "god" of the alleged "scripture" since it was falsified and even this scripture warns about it should tell you how to behave.
Try disobeying jesus and doing opposite believing you do the will of GOD see how it goes for you. And consider that the guy posted as "satan" is the actual GOD.
The angel who "rebelled" (as you cannot do opposite of what GOD wans even if HE wants) simply ordered his sons to fuck up scripture and GODS commandments are not there to be found.
It is simple: If we live among sons of satan? How come we have to give them our money and belongings when they are poor? Or be kind to them and bless them when they hate us? Why not hate them? Or why not be prideful among them? Or disobedient? Or however the fuck we want? And fuck like lions and with lions?
If God gives freedom, how come the "god" of the bible is so unable to provide it and so unloving and unaccepting of his "alleged" children? Why wouldn't GOD love his homosexual son when HE is the one desiring HIS son to be homosexual and he is doing HIS will by being homosexual?
Hey remember when mom was gang raped to death? Well too bad God was bored and had to pass the time with SOMETHING. Apparently he fantasized about genocide and rape.
Everything about nature screams violence, death, and meaninglessness. This notion that there's a personal creator who embodies love is bat shit insane. This very moment, probably over 95% of sentience is suffering. Go fuck yourself with your God of love you imbecile
And you lack understanding, because the sons of the devil went and placed the actual GOD in the place of the devil. So it is natural that bad things happen.
Not him but the way you write makes me want to throw up. Stop randomly putting words in all caps, it doesn't impress anyone
The bible is an extremely important part of our culture. It is a work written during a primordial early civilization period. It is equivalent to many of the things we think about now, only from a different perspective. Think of it like the magna carta but longer and covering different areas of life. It is both general and specific and teaches us a lot about how people can and did percieve reality at a different earlier time. We can still reinterpret it to fit modern times. You can question why we should use it but it is relevant exactly because its so old and complex. Why should we use any old document and think about what is written in it? Because certain documents and books were very influential for many different reasons. In some ways you can use it to criticisze modern society. I mean why do we still find Plato's works important? All his ideas area already included within arguments by modern philosophers... And yet it is still important because their perceptions back then are fundamental ones from wich all other fields grew. they are the basis on which we reiterate our understanding and find inspiration for further progress.
So you feel like throwing up when somebody honors the TRUTH?
I WILL DO IT MORE.
I've noticed you've looked for an excuse to throw shit at me the moment I've said something that makes lots of sense, as if you wanted to get revenge for it.
Care to refute anything I said?
If man could understand God, he would be God already. Go find something useful to think about, dude.