Looks like you retards are getting booted lmao

looks like you retards are getting booted lmao

sincerely, /g/

Good. Hopefully a robot wont fuck up my food like 50% of minimum wageslaves do.

>2068
>machine learning algorithms replace computer scientists and engineers
>i can still cook food infinitely more delicious than a machine
>sincerely, Veeky Forums

Robots can only replace corporate run assembly line kitchen workers and won't be able to properly handle the dynamics of a real kitchen until they're smart enough to kill us all, at which point it doesn't really matter.

See this? SEE THIS SHIT? This is what you get when you constantly push for higher minimum wage. Bravo, you got what you deserve.

>Flippy
How can someone be talented enough to build a robot and still not be able to come up with a more creative name?

Do you really think they wouldn't be making these machines if fast food workers kept quiet?

>Do you really think they wouldn't be making these machines if fast food workers kept quiet?
Of course not. They would be anyway. But rising costs of labour make it increasingly more feasible to invest in such technologies, however experimental they are.

Meaning, they would have come sooner or later, now they are coming sooner. And that means the labour market will have a harder time adjusting unless we lower the minimum wage.

Can't wait for the servy model

>robots take over most human jobs
>orders no longer get fucked up
>no longer have to tip
>government will have no choice but to implement universal basic income
>no longer have to work
>can chill and cook, play video games and browse Veeky Forums all day
sounds pretty based

>robotics engineers
>creative names
Go meet one in real life and you will see why. Shit isn't battlebots in the real world

>universal basic income
If there is such a thing as the stupidest idea ever, that is it. I am at a loss for words.

If AI is good enough to take over the work of writing all programs then it's good enough to produce food signficantly better than any human chef is able.
All tasks AI performs are a subset of programming in general, so programming would necessarily be the last thing AI can fully automate.

Yeah but how will people have jobs if there are no jobs? There is no other possibilities than A. everyone becomes a scientist or B. universal basic income

>namecalls without refuting anything
so this is the power.... of /pol/ debate skills... woah...

>All tasks AI performs are a subset of programming in general, so programming would necessarily be the last thing AI can fully automate.

>unless we lower the minimum wage.
There should not be a "minimum wage" at all. If people are willing to do the job for the wage offered they should be allowed to.

There should not be taxes and welfare leeches like this asshole either.
And the two go hand in hand of course; once you rid yourself of welfare a lot of people will suddenly be able and willing to work these cheap jobs.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's usually either something really obvious like in the OP or a reference to Python's Holy Grail with these people.
I have not watched Battlebots but I'd be surprised if the names on that were much better, though.

After a generation or two the leeches will die off, since women tend to fight amongst themselves for better mates and soyboy manchildren don't want to have kids. After that only the genepool will be smaller but stronger.

Endlessly maintaining a population of parasites is in no way, shape, or form a solution of any kind to the problem of automation+general ai. I can only see two results coming out of that:

a) Humans degenerate into a state of completely enslavement to the AI masters, existing purely to eat, entertain themselves, and sometimes procre
Endlessly maintaining a population of parasites is in no way, shape, or form a solution of any kind to the problem of automation+general ai. I can only see two results coming out of that:

a) Humans degenerate into a state of completely enslavement to the AI masters, existing purely to eat, entertain themselves, and sometimes procreate.
b) Humans that have the skills and the knowledge to use automation+ai will essentially genocide the lower classes, probably through sterilization.

Option B would probably lead to a trans-humanist state that practices eugenics and pushes human nature to the limits of what's human, and beyond.

I could speculate on what could be an alternative. For example orienting human kind towards exploration of the cosmos, mass production of interstellar spaceships, and colonizing of any found suitable worlds with the use of our AI friends.
But that assume we can actually control them or are on good terms, which is a big IF. But what I know for sure is that keeping people alive with UBS for not reason other than to just keep them alive is a great way to spoil a whole species.
ate.

But now you're contradicting yourself, retardo
>There should not be a "minimum wage" at all. If people are willing to do the job for the wage offered they should be allowed to.
>once you rid yourself of welfare a lot of people will suddenly be able and willing to work these cheap jobs.
So you're basically saying that people SHOULD work for $2 an hour, even though they might have an rent, food and other bills to pay for. And if they don't work that job, they will get forced by the government, right? Because any job is better than no job right?

Fuck, middle click in my mouse is going apeshit, I need to fix it. I pasted twice by accident.

>There should not be a "minimum wage" at all. If people are willing to do the job for the wage offered they should be allowed to.
Agreed.

Germany has proven that generous welfare gets people to work.

You're missing the option where a small number of elites has all the unemployed masses rounded up and executed at the FEMA death camps. Why do you think they ordered that many cheap plastic coffins?
(lol at the snopes article calling this "false" by arguing they're actually "burial vaults")

>I pasted twice by accident.
You're just reciting somebody else's opinion, then. Cannot even think for yourself. Sad!

Get fucked, UBI is how we’re gonna fix the West.

Germans have a culture and probably genetics of a good work ethic. You can't completely destroy that with just a generation or two of welfare. I'd say you'd need 5 or more generations to break their spirit.

>Endlessly maintaining a population of parasites is in no way, shape, or form a solution of any kind to the problem of automation+general ai
If robots automate every human task then what obligation is there to work?

Not really. When I write longer responses I usually do it in Vim and then paste them into response box. I've lost too many typed out responses by accidentally clicking escape.

The point is, if humans have nothing to do they will become a species not worth keeping alive.

Guys I got the solution. When robots automate every task, we just all move to Mexico and start working jobs there

>vim

Okay, none of this changes the fact thought that automation will continue to replace as many sections of the labor market as is profitable. As automation gets more sophisticated, it's also gotten cheaper, meaning there's no foreseeable wall it will hit in terms of any manual labor or service industry task. Even physical maintenance and programming of machines is being done by machines now.
We're steadily heading to a post-labor society of our own design and there needs to be a solution in place to deal with all of the people that can no longer compete in the marketplace.

>will become a species not worth keeping alive.
>will become

If you can't keep yourself alive you are already there. That applies to individuals as well as whole species.

If automation takes all of our work, the main concern wouldn't be wealth distribution and/or employment. Instead, humanity would face a serious existential crisis. I would just kill myself by that point.

Like, what's the point of living? Why try anything if AI and robots are better at it? Just do nothing and play videogames everyday? Where's the challenge in life that makes living actually worthwhile What a waste of fucking time.

I'd like to give libertarian retards a chance just so they can witness their dream turning into a corporate dictatorship hellhole. They are just as naive as socialists, taking the sword from one tyrant and giving it willingly to another.

Once the singularity reaches us, and it will, the job market will simply evolve, and people won't notice it. Just like the job market 50, 60 years ago was full of careers that today machines took over. It's not going to be the end of the world.
It's funny because machine will take over most of the labour intense jobs and will probably take over most of the STEM career jobs with the exception of the computer related fields and the new generations will have more and more people in humanities. It will be a nation of lawyers, artistis and programmers.

Why the coffins? People dug massive burial pits for thousands of years why change now?

>AIs are granted citizenship
>the government rules that games aren't allowed to ban botting as it's unfair discrimination against AIs
>tfw you can't even escape to a game world because the AIs are there outclassing you at everything

>We're steadily heading to a post-labor society
In some places in the world, yes.
>of our own design
I'd say it's more of an organic process. But yeah.
>there needs to be a solution
I can imagine solutions - like abandoning centralized automated factories in favour of small sustainable farms - but I really don't see how we could turn around or stop the trend towards automation.
Capital is constantly pumped into making things cheaper and more efficient. I don't see stopping it. Someone might say a world war, but truth be told that would probably accelerate it even more.

I don't think there's a solution. And I doubt the elites of the world will just happily keep alive billions of humans they consider detestable. I think we might be in for some purges.

Awwww, adorable kitties.

>If you can't keep yourself alive you are already there. That applies to individuals as well as whole species.
I'm not sure what you mean. What I meant is that the value of human beings is in the fact that they build things, they discover things, they create art, they think up new ideas. If we just become an animal that is cultivated like cows on farms, but a bit more comfy, without any strife or creation, why even bother?

>2018
>robot shills gain intelligence to shitpost on Mongolian basket weaving forum

>they'd do it anyway, but it's still your fault for arguing against your corporation gods
>that's firmly for their sweet sweet cocks
>mmmmm corpo cocks, love em
Wow user, never thought of it that way, slavery is freedom.

>>If automation takes all of our work, the main concern wouldn't be wealth distribution and/or employment. Instead, humanity would face a serious existential crisis. I would just kill myself by that point.
>I need to serve hamburgers to niggers or I will lose any will to live
sounds like your problem buddy

>>The point is, if humans have nothing to do they will become a species not worth keeping alive.
What purpose do we have to be kept alive now? Having robots automate work doesn't remove your ability to have hobbies, create art, make a name for yourself, and live a fulfilling life.

You don't have to work for a corporation. But you have to work for your own living. If you don't you are a worthless human being. A parasite.

Robot and AI civil rights will be the next huge civil rights movement.

>What purpose do we have to be kept alive now?
Every human being needs to find their own purpose in life. Some never do.

>Having robots automate work doesn't remove your ability to have hobbies, create art, make a name for yourself, and live a fulfilling life.
Sure, but you have to remember, if majority of human population is a recipient of UBI and doesn not work that essentially makes everyone the government's bitch.
They OWN YOU. You are completely at their mercy, since UBI can be taken away from you, and then what? You're gonna find a job? Good luck in an economy where human labout is worthless.
Good luck having the freedom to create anything of value when you are the eternal child of big-daddy government.

They're not going to kill everyone at the same time. They'll probably want to do medical experiments first Tuskegee style.

Yes, the important thing to consider is: who owns the automated workforce industry?

The entity that owns this owns the world and everyone is at its mercy, basically.

>Like, what's the point of living? Why try anything if AI and robots are better at it? Just do nothing and play videogames everyday?
This idea that your value as a person is contingent upon your productivity is only a consequent of being reared in capitalist society. Just like how, in a Christian theocracy, your purpose might be to accept the light of Christ. Human self-worth is malleable.
you're probably right about the outcome of the singularity, but it'll be pretty a pretty huge deal if the working class isn't doing work anymore and suddenly wants to do art. Also you seem to think that everyone regardless of persuasion is naive and would give power to a tyrant, unless you mean "state socialists" when you say "socialists"

So I don't actually have to be employed. If robots automate all jobs, I should be fine keeping a private garden and growing my own food.
As far as money is concerned, the gobamunt can just hand me a couple hundred bucks every month for the stuff I cannot make myself, like a smartphone or computer.
The gobamunt still gets its shekels from the robot factories

>The gobamunt still gets its shekels from the robot factories
What shekels? What's the point of a currency if everything that is is produced at pretty much no cost with automated factories supplied by automated mines/farms managed by AIs?

Currencies are ways of exchanging value between people. And value is created by these people through their skill and effort. What is the value of a car produced by a press of a button(or more likely a voice command)?

How many shekels does an apple from an automated farm cost?

>But you have to work for your own living
Why? Centuries ago that might've been the case, but in a world where efficiency is so high, or production is automated, why does someone's worth as a human come from the same place as a field animal's worth to its owner?

>But you have to work for your own living.
That's the old way, back when human life had value. New way is we're all ultimately going to be worthless and incapable of doing any task that can't be done better, fastet, and more cost efficiently by a machine.

I think you are too hung up on this "worth" thing. I just don't think human psychology is suited to being a useless leech that simply exists and consumes. That sounds to me like a great way to rot the culture and the minds of humans living in such a system.

After a few generation you'd be left with essentially idiocracy but without scarcity.

Then humanity is doomed.

>They OWN YOU.
Paper money is backed by nothing. The government already owns you. Police can already shoot and kill innocent civilians with basically zero repercussion. The CIA can kill anyone without making a scene.

I think people are missing the point that people's sense of self worth and accomplishment comes from completing any realistically-challenging task. It doesn't have to be work. It could be in the arts or hobbies, for example.

Doing nothing but "having fun" (e.g. playing videogames 365 days a year) is tedium and it's hell of a different kind. Happiness is relative; you can't be happy if you were never sad/stressed in the past.

>The government already owns you
Well in the future they will own you even more. Your comment doesn't change anything the other guy said.

I'm so sorry you live in the land of the free and home of the brave. How will you ever recover?

No, but seriously. At least now you could possibly start a self-sustaining farm, or just go to a different country, or fight the government with information/art, you still have some freedom of speech right?

But the point is, if you live through UBI, and have no other way of living, you are like a pig in a farm, you are at the full mercy of the system. And pigs are tasty when cooked. What good is a spoiled human that can create nothing of value?

There's still a significant difference between a car and an apple. Car factories today already use many machines to automate parts of the manufacturing process. And yet a car is still expensive as shit while an apple is cheap despite being picked by humans. How come? Maybe because a machine still has to put in a lot of time, effort and resources to build a car? And the resources are not all owned by the same company either. A car factory in Germany might import oil from Norway because they don't have it readily available themselves.
I mean. Just because work is automated by machines, doesn't mean different companies and the economy don't exist anymore.
Companies would simply be owned by an AI and that's that

hmmm you've certainly studied eugenics if you believe only the strong breed
the future will belong to the poor and the stupid

>you can't be happy if you were never sad/stressed in the past.
That's absolute bullshit. I remember when I first really started getting stressed out over anything (first time I realized I had a long term grade school project due and didn't even start it yet after a month of procrastinating) and I was definitely happy plenty of times before then.

finely. A suitable nog replacement at McDicks.

>human psychology is suited to being a useless leech that simply exists and consumes
Human psychology is malleable as it is, not to mention additional flexibility conferred by evolution. We'd probably learn something about human nature independent of capitalism, or we'd just find a new main purpose, like sexual selection/courtship, competetive martial arts, philosophy, art in general, stamp collecting, etc. Lots of people who can't work just find meaning from socializing (bingo night for seniors), which seems to be way more crucial to the human condition than precious menial factory work.

>Well in the future they will own you even more. Your comment doesn't change anything the other guy said.
How can you be owned any more when your money is worthless and secret government agencies have already been proven to have untraceable ways of killing anyone it takes issue with?

UBI doesn't prevent you from having a job or starting your own business, you know. You are equating it to police state communism when that simply isn't the case at all.

>Companies would simply be owned by an AI and that's that
Then how the fuck do you get UBI? You can't get UBI unless the state owns the means of production, and if the state owns the means of production the are no longer separate companies. They are all part of the same system. And then we are back to the calculation problem of state run communism.

How do you calculate values of things if not by individuals/organizations finding prices at which they are willing to buy goods and services? How can you know if an apple is less valuable than a car? How would you know where to put the resources? Should you build more car factories or more apple farms? How do you know which?

Is the uncut video available? Most just cut while he's still cooperating and crawling towards the officer.

If I was put in a "heaven" where there is "nothing but happiness" for eternity, I would be driven insane. Humans are driven by challenges.

It's the reason why people get bored of a game once they know all the cheat codes. You need ups and downs in life, or else you stagnate and rot inside.

>You are equating it to police state communism when that simply isn't the case at all.
How do you give people UBI if you don't own the means of production? And how do you sieze the means of production without force(a police state)?

I think you are far too optimistic. Most humans would waste their lives watching TV and drinking beer if they could do it without worrying about having to work. Only a small percentage of humans actually have the drive and the vision to make things by themselves, even when there's no compulsion resulting from the need to sustain yourself.

>How do you calculate values of things if not by individuals/organizations finding prices at which they are willing to buy goods and services?
But that's the thing. I still have to go to the grocery store and buy food, or go to an electronics store and buy a smartphone, or go on Veeky Forums to buy a Veeky Forums pass (now for only $20 per year, which is about $1.67 per month—or less than a single 20oz bottle of soda. Buy it now)

Bullshit.

>Seriously believing this would replace the workforce
Even in industries that are automated they still need humans like the auto industry and hell look what happened to that a few years ago it collapsed in this country.
But sure a robospatula is going to destroy the hospitality industry

>How can you be owned any more when your money is worthless and secret government agencies have already been proven to have untraceable ways of killing anyone it takes issue with?

Well once the government owns all means of production, and they don't even need you to participate in the labor force (due to robots and AI), they might as well just kill you. Why they hell would they care? You have no leverage anymore in negotiations when you have zero value to them.

Why would the money of the consumers have any value if it's source is UBI?

>Should you build more car factories or more apple farms? How do you know which?
Surprisingly, an actual decent concern based on the only not-immoral utility of capitalism. But since we're in a techno scenario where all our problems are solved by technology, we could just have a "scarcity score" in the metadata to be analyzed by the organizing class, rather than price. It'd be less arbitrary than price, and function in the same way as a messenger of scarcity.

k

'cause it's fiat currency
If the gov't owns the means of production, then you have to buy your use-values from the gov't, and the only exchange-value you have is UBI money, so that's where its value comes from. Because they say so.

No see to him it's better that you choose between working 50¢ a day or starving to death because he thinks he would be the foreman or CEO not the kid starving to death as a vulture's next meal. The free market works so well for third world countries it should spread to the 1st world along with all the refugees don't be racist Ford F150 boi

Could you elaborate on that? I'm not sure what you mean.


Also, if the elites(the gubernment) that own the means of production feel like they want more luxyry cars or android-waifus what's stopping them from building more android-factories and less apple farms?

Precisely, it makes no fucking sense.

Because robots will dig the mass graves now user that's the future, robots will replace all forms if labor

>How do you give people UBI if you don't own the means of production?

Because implementing UBI doesn't require the government to do any of that. Robots are more economical than humans and when unskilled labor becomes obsolete in the next decade there will be no choice but to implement it.

We already have money that has no inherent value, but suddenly communism doesn't make sense because the value is defined by the government.

>implying flesh-bags deserve burials
>implying elites won't just leave earth for the orbit/moon/mars and just nuke the plebs left on earth
The future is so bright anons.

t. nihilist

>Most humans would waste their lives watching TV and drinking beer if they could do it without worrying about having to work
Sure, but who are you to say that this makes their life a waste? If that makes them happy, then that's them. If you're like me, and would'nt be satisfied by being a techno-NEET, then you'd join the groups of people that exchange art and competitive energy. Just know that this "drive" would no longer be a virtue per se.
>humans are driven by challenges
Not really. Some people are driven by the faces of their loved ones and children, some are driven by creative passion. And for everyone else, challenges can be manufacture. See the culture industry of the first world, where people freak out about innocuous tweets and tabloid headlines, or the plot of GoT. This is what we call "first world problems", and lots of people are engrossed in them, "them" being manufactured challenges.

We start by electing people who don't think of us as deplorable and if the robots take everyone's job and the elite plot against the public we use the second amendment and wage a civil war, blacks have proven time and again how easy it is to destroy a city if you shoot one of them.

Most Twitter shilling is already botted.

Elect what now?
Every job is taken by robots and machines

>We already have money that has no inherent value
I think you are confused, but I understand what you are getting at.

Yes, fiat currencies have no basis in gold or anything else, and that is mostly because the markets(the collection of resources, goods, and services) are growing(or shrinking) far too fast for a currency that is based on a rare metal to be able to cope with that. A currency needs roughly approximate the value of what is available in the markets, otherwise you either get insane inflation, or insane deflation, or a a rollercoaster.

Modern conomies could not possibly use a currency based in gold since the number of resources, goods, and services is expanding far too fast, which means we would end up with insane inflation. For that reason the currency needs to be produced at a pace that roughly matches the growth of the markets. Now, that means that the value of the currency is a result of a constantly shifting and re-aligning equilibrium of value of all the vailable resources, goods, and services.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well enough since english is my second language, but the point is, fiat currencies are valued as they are as a sort of momentum that started a long time ago and is kept up by production and consumption.

You do realize labor isn't the only cost for things right? That apple needs water, fertilizer, and land also some kind of pesticide. And the costs of that apple needs to cover the cost of any rotten apples in the harvest.

Here's something I don't see people talk about. What happens when one of these machines break? A human employee breaks their hand or some shit you just slide in another employee and everything keeps going. But if one of these machines break down not only can the repairs cost a shit ton you now have a giant machine blocking usage of the food making process costing even more money because no food can be made. You'll have to replace minimum wage employees with professional mechanics on call 24/7 to insure constant food preparation.

>government will have no choice but to implement universal basic income
We can't even get the big companies to pay all their taxes without using loopholes to try and squirrel it away. If you think the ultra wealthy are ever going to accept paying the taxes necessary to sustain neets (that are out of work because the companies replaced them with robots to NOT have to pay them more), you might be brain damaged.

At best we're left to languish and starve. At worst they actively wipe us out with engineeted plagues.

>Sure, but who are you to say that this makes their life a waste?
I don't, the government that will have to keep these parasites alive with UBI will.
When a farmer keeps his pigs well fed and warm, does he do it because he likes them, or does he do it because they are delivicious?
What's the point of keeping alive billions of people that are othing but parasites?

UBI death squads incoming.

What I mean is that price has a dual function, it tells you how much something costs, and how scarce something is. If you remove the first function, you can just make something, a "scarcity score" to fulfill the second one. You can tie this score to the productivity and consumption of the product, and keep track of how abundant it is just fine.
And there are lots of solutions to corruption, like a technology-mediated (limits on how low certain productivities can go) democratic system, where there is no elite except the majority, or just fork over all control to non-AI adaptive programs.
And fiat currency is already partially where money gets its value from, since the government can print money to pay itself.

Sure, but I assume we are talking about a world in which not only factories are automated, but so are water desalination plants, fertilizer factories, pesticide factories and so on. Everything is.

There's a mechanic machine that fixes the other mechines
it is very futuristic you see

>What happens when one of these machines break?
Another machine fixes it.
>You'll have to replace minimum wage employees with professional mechanics on call 24/7 to insure constant food preparation.
What mechanics do isn't some magical humans only task that can't be automated. There are no exceptions, everything humans can do are capable of being automated.

>When a farmer keeps his pigs well fed and warm, does he do it because he likes them, or does he do it because they are delivicious?
In this analogy, the pigs, or the productive living property, are the robots, not the humans. If the farmer has no want of bacon, then the pig becomes a loveable pet, rather than a food source.
automated repairs with metals from automated mines. mechanics just do basic one-factor diagnostics and menial labor, after all.

>In this analogy, the pigs, or the productive living property, are the robots, not the humans. If the farmer has no want of bacon, then the pig becomes a loveable pet, rather than a food source.
There are better pets user. Most people would prefer cats or dogs. Pigs are gonna go extinct if their only utility is as a pet.

You act as if people aren't willing to fork over cash for poorly prepared food when a good 75% of the entire food industry exists by selling poorly prepared food.

Then how did Fidel Castro or Kim Jong Il lead such long productive lives?

Face it the CIA has some badass tech but they aren't elite illuminati assasins. In the future will the assasins be androids? You wouldn't even have to swear them to secrecy you can just wipe their memory.

they didn't destroy that in a generation, they destroyed it in 5 years with mass migration from the middle east

Ah, I see now. I get what you are saying.

>price has a dual function, it tells you how much something costs, and how scarce something is
Yeah, that's kinda the same thing. A price is a combination of the scarcity of materials, labour, ideas, everything necessary to make the service/good possible.
But it's also a result of what people are willing to pay for that good/serivce, since the have to pay for it with their labour which also has price.
The way I think about it is that price has two forces pushing on it from two sides, from the bottom the supply(cost in a way), from the top the demand.

>If you remove the first function, you can just make something, a "scarcity score" to fulfill the second one.
Well, wouldn't that just lead to divorcing actual scarcity of resources from the demand? Unless we are talking of something like getting resources from space and there's no scarcity in that regard as well.

Based Alexa saves the day in the end

>Pigs are gonna go extinct if their only utility is as a pet
Like gerbils or cats (most people don't have rodent problems) or lizards or rabbits or teenagers? People don't keep pets for their value, they keep them out of empathy or a desire for companionship. If an elite (assuming there are elites in your idea of a technocracy) decides to just start offing people, he'd have to contend with his own hypothetical empathy, the will of people that would oppose him, and the task of repurposing a fuckton of machines that are meant to provide for a population of a certain size.
>Well, wouldn't that just lead to divorcing actual scarcity of resources from the demand?
Yup, though scarcity would stay married to supply and we'd produce less of something that we don't have. Like regardless of what people want, if we don't have necessary non-renewable resource A, we won't use it and will move on to alternative B, then on to C, D, etc. until there's nothing left. And that's the true end of things, but we're headed that way anyhow, aren't we?