How do we reconcile Christianity with the theory of evolution by the process of natural selection?
Jesus serves no purpose without a literal Adam, Eve, and Fall from Grace.
I await your input.
How do we reconcile Christianity with the theory of evolution by the process of natural selection?
Jesus serves no purpose without a literal Adam, Eve, and Fall from Grace.
I await your input.
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Evolution is illusion created by Satan.
They don't disagree
Adam and Eve is a metaphor
Original sin is a metaphor for our flawed nature
Jesus died for a metaphor?
You can't reconcile.
The world is 6,000 years old, dinosaurs never existed, evolution is a Satanic lie, and God created everything as it is right now.
If you disagree with me you must be an atheist communist Marxist liberal funded by George Soros with a Cultural Marxist Frankfurt School agenda.
Are you stupid
What is the metaphor about?
The fall from grace is when apes become men, leading to the birth of sacrificial religion. It's completely compatible.
If there is no real origenal sin than what's the point of Jesus's death?
Are humans born sinless only commit sin later in life? If so why ever have children? Their souls start out as sinless and saved and than when you bring them into this world you expose them to sin? Having children would be risking them losing their salvation.
Jesus died so that our innate sin could be forgiven. If original sin is a metaphor then Jesus died for a metaphor.
Men are apes by definition
>dinosaurs never existed
The word "dinosaur" didn't exist until the 18th century.
Before that, they were called dragons.
Well... He resurrected himself so his death also an a metaphor. Perfectly logical explanation.
There is no such thing as "evolution", it's a myth that has been debunked years ago.
We all come from Adam.
>THEORY of Evolution vs FACT of Creation
>Evolution is the Greatest Deception
>Kent Hovind debunks Evolution (18 hours)
>Evolution is a modern fairy tale
>The Greatest Lie Ever Told
>Overwhelming Evidence for the Great Flood
>Dinosaurs are not millions of years old
The Biblical worldview is the truth.
That quote of yours has been debunked how many times now?
What does the metaphor seek to explain
Do you think they just thought up original sin one day when they were playing with their assholes?
The metaphor seeks to explain that all men are born with a corrupted soul by nature
That doesn't change the meaning of the story in any way
It just means the origin of original sin is not as the bible describes
But that doesn't fucking matter because the story wasn't made to explain its origin just to explain we are all corrupted
I mean actually THINK retards
Impressive! Eight hours long videos and zero compelling arguments against evolution.
Darwinism has been literally torn apart.
it has nothing to stand on.
>The metaphor seeks to explain that all men are born with a corrupted soul by nature
Ok how does it explain it? What causes our "courrupted soul" were we born this way? Because if so than God intionally created corrupted being.
Even if thousands of years ago some humans did something that pissed off God that wouldn't alter our DNA.
No shit. This is why science agrees with Neo-Darwinism.
But evolution is the foundation of biology and modern medicine is based on biology. Nothing makes sense in biology without evolution.
Ad populum logical fallacy, appeal to authority, etc.
Soviet scientists agreed with Communism.
German scientists agreed with National Socialism.
What's your point?
Garden = nature under natural selection
or, the environment that produced anatomically modern humans
Tree of knowledge = technology/intelligence/agriculture
After humanity acquired agriculture, they were "cast out" from the garden, and forced to toil in the fields endlessly. So, man went from natural selection to artificial selection, that was the single event that changed human history. That is, acquiring knowledge/agriculture and ceasing to be hunter gatherers one with nature to being the controllers of nature.
"Adam" literally means "Man". As in, mankind. I doubt the original writers were aware of all this and probably took a literal interpretation.
Do you think I'm god
I don't know the origin of all things
But if you can't look at the world and see that we are by nature sinners then you are an even bigger dumbass than I though
>God created intentionally corrupted beings
YOU DONT SAY
>what is free will
No it's not.
That's like saying beer is the foundation of sports.
You don't need beer to watch sports.
People have been studying biology and medicine for thousands of years before Darwin existed.
Scientist's agreement with political ideas are not authoritative because politics is not an empirical science.
> Ad populum logical fallacy, appeal to authority, etc.
My point here is that is doesn't matter how much Darwinism was torn apart because evolution from science is not from Darwinism.
It is like arguing against chemistry by saying that alchemy is wrong. No shit. This is why science is about chemistry and wasn't alchemy based.
So what you are telling me is that it's a metaphor but you don't know what it it is a metaphor for?
>what is free will
But angels have free will and are far less prone to sin. It's generally understood nothing tainted with sin can be in the presense of God. Angels are in the presense of God so they are sinnless.
So God can create something that both has free will and is not prone to sin. Why did he fuck up with humans?
Adam and Eve were the first Humans.
Prior to that there were many homonid species.
All those species came about due to evolution.
All those species lacked souls.
Adam and Eve had souls.
Adam and Eve were the first hominids given souls.
The soul made humans greater than the animals and immune to death.
The Fall corrupted Humans and made them vulnerable to death.
It made them as though they had no souls.
Why guy here is soviet? Soviets doesn't believe in evolution because natural selection is capitalistic. It is better for their agenda if you can train people to cooperate and shit.
>The world is a sphere
>"NO IT'S NOT YOU STUPID IDIOT, LOOK AT ALL THESE SCIENTISTS THEY BELIEVE THE EARTH IS FLAT! YOU'RE A HERETIC!"
Your logic is retarded.
Provide me facts and evidence to support your worldview, not appeals to authority.
Are you retarded?
Darwinism paved the way to Marxism, Socialism, Atheism, Humanism and Relativism/Pluralism.
> what is free will
Another cop out? You could choose between one good act and another. Being corrupted isn't really necessary for free will.
So are Souls made from DNA or do they just fall out of the sky?
If they are made from DNA this has some really interesting properties. Imagine being able to use genetic engineering to change our souls.
If they are not made from DNA how does a person get a soul when they are born? Is it breathed into them like some sort of Gnostic divine spark?
>Because virology, bacteriology, or anything involving DNA would be possible without the theory of evolution.
your ignorance is incredible
First you have to define what you mean with "evolution".
It has like 6 different meanings.
The only "evolution" that has been observed is variations/micro-evolution. There can be many variations of a dog, but it always stays a dog.
The idea of an animal turning into another animal is completely unscientific. There is no proof for it whatsoever.
> Stars doesn't exist because astrology has been literally torn apart!
I am here not to defend evolution but to point out how retarded your argument are. Darwinism was literally irrelevant in modern evolutionary science.
Kent Hovind has already debunked your argument m8
DNA and fossils point towards the Bible being true. Especially 'Neanderthal' skulls (pre-flood man).
God you are stupid
How many times do I have to tell you
ORIGINAL SIN IS A METAPHOR FOR OUR CORRUPTED NATURE
You probably still don't dumbass
>angles have free will and are less prone to sin
>who is Satan and his demons
Oh I get it now
You have absolutely no understanding of the bible AT ALL
Okay man just stop
If you can't understand the simple concept that
>man is not good by nature
>he is usually bad by nature
>he needs someone to save him from himself
>that person is Jesus
Then you will never understand the bible
evolution is a joke.
it has been proven wrong and yet its pushed in our school system to brainwash kids into believing they are nothing but animals.
the occult/freemasons want the world to deny God so that they can bring in their Antichrist
its all part of Satan's plan that he has worked for so long. the only way his plan will work is if people don't believe in the bible.
> Are you retarded?
Why do you think Lysenko was so popular? Entire capitalistic economy was based on competition so theory that says that competition is major force for biological progress is going against all soviet ideas in its core.
>choosing to do bad things
>not free will
> pre-flood man
Flood never happened and physically impossible.
>It has like 6 different meanings.
In what parrelel universe?
>The only "evolution" that has been observed is variations/micro-evolution. There can be many variations of a dog, but it always stays a dog.
Species difference is a human construct, a species changes from one to another when it meets human invented criteria for what constitutes a species. All large scale evolution is just the culimination of many micro evolutionst
>Macroevolution can be seen as the sum of periods of microevolution, and thus the two are qualitatively identical while being quantitatively different.
>Flood never happened
Yes it did. Look up the 'Hydroplate theory'.
You can have choice without choice between good and evil. You don't need to choose between Hitler and Jesus on president votes.
One could jnterpret "God breathed life into Adam" as "God gave this particular homonid a spiritual reality called 'a soul.'"
However, it is not a Divine Spark as the soul is nowhere near God in nature. It is merely the spiritual reality of Mankind. Just as Angels are purely spiritual beings but not Divine, humans are spiritual and physical beings but not divine.
The fact remains that millions of angels have lived trillions of years and never commited a sin. Something no human has done.
Clearly God is capable of creating species that are have a very high resistance to sin, something he intionally did not design humans with.
Better yet, why not just create more Gods. God himself has both free will and no sin nature? Is God capable of creating other being such as himself (if not than he is not all powerful).
The fact is that God had several different natures to pick from when creating life: his own nature, angel's nature, human nature. He intionally choose a sin-prone one.
>ORIGINAL SIN IS A METAPHOR FOR OUR CORRUPTED NATURE
If god is perfect and original sin never happened then he created us corrupted to begin with. That's fucking RETARDED.
He had to send his son who is also himself to commit suicide to fix our corrupted nature even though he made us that way in the first place. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Being serious this time
Have you picked up a bible?
Where all of this water now?
So is a soul put into a person's body at certain point in their life or are they born with a soul.
If they are born with a soul than souls must be related to DNA.
If they the soul needs to be inserted at which point does this happen? Does it happen the first time a cell divides? The first time sperm fertilizes an egg? The first trimester? At birth?
>Kent Hovind has already debunked your argument m8
>one deranged man with a shit degree from an online degree mill vs. pretty much every other scientist in the world
Bible doesn't explain shit and there is no reason to believe various commentaries.
>bacteriology would be possible without the theory of evolution
not so, they first observed bacteria in 1676.
It's called oceans you retard.
Look on a map, the world consists mostly of water. That wasn't the case before the flood.
Are you capable of answering the question or not.
I can tell you one thing about the bible. Origenal sin does not exist in the old testament. It's a 2nd centuary concept. There was no history of the idea existing until than.
Butthurt atheist tard detected
your monkey religion got debunked, stay mad
We don't. You can't reconcile Biblical facts with man-made lies.
You are going by the assumption that evolution is true, which it is not.
I answered your questions assuming you are the guy I've been calling a dumbass the last couple post
You are just too stupid or arrogant to accept my answers
You have evaded the question. Perhaps you cannot answer it.
God had 3 natures he could have picked from when creating humans. His own nature which never sins, angel's nature of which 2/3s of angels lead sinless lives, or human nature which cannot lead a sinless life. All 3 of these natures are also capable of free will.
Why would God intentionally choose the nature that is most sin-prone?
> That wasn't the case before the flood.
So... All of this water magically *appeared* instead? Nice way to prove my point retard.
Evolution was literally observed in nature thousand times. God's miracles aren't observed even once.
How do you know that?
why would I be mad when I'm 100% right?
Most contemporary theologians believe ensoulment happens at conception.
A soul does not need to be, and is not, related exclusively to DNA, it can have a connection but only insofar as Body and Soul are perfectly intertwined. if anything we don't completley know how it works beyond "it does." Or at least if the Cathlodoxy does I don't know it of the top of my head.
Yes Orthobros, I'm lumping us together but only because we both put actual thought into this stuff unlike the Protestants.
Assuming you are trying to find the physical reality of the soul, good fucking luck. Finding the physical reality of a spiritual reality is like finding the blueness of the color red. Logically impossible.
Scientists didn't ever think the earth was flat
That's an enlightenment myth
Was that your question?
We can not know his motivation for anything
Trying to understand it is useless
The same question could be made if God is all powerful why not just make everyone exactly like himself and avoid all the sin, dumb humans, devil, demons, and angles
We don't know
Well... You can't really argue with facts. So yes. It is poor bait. Bait should distort facts not state them.
> We don't know
Because there is no god.
Make everyone like him would be best option.
the choice to have the nature of angels with free will and less likelihood to commit sin is objectively better. there is no reason for humans to have a less perfect nature. we don't know doesn't cut it
There is a God
All this fucking bait related to science.
Go there please christcuks
>it would be his best option to make everyone exactly like him
You don't know that
You have absolutely no way of knowing that and pretending you do proves you can even understand the concept of God in the right way
Or in other words you are too stupid to understand the concept of God all together
Maybe there is corrupt one or apathetic to humans and their life.
ITT: filthy heathens use the lie of evilution to deny God and deny the responsibilities that come with it
Just admit it, unbelievers. You don't want to face up to the responsibilities and the debt you owe to your creator. Threads like these demonstrate why we desperately need something like pic related.
Christians should take over society and ban everything that promotes sinful behavior. We must rule, centralize, manage and control according to the Holy Scriptures. Every aspect of society should be under our control, to prevent the filth we see like in this thread, and on this site. In fact, we should probably start with this site. Us Christians should make a concentrated effort to turn Veeky Forums into the internet hub of Global Christianity
I believe in evolution and God
It's not an issue
This guy first proposed the Big Bang theory.
What now? Are you going to scream "muh Whore of Babylon!" like a fucking retard?
I can't tell who is trolling who.
I'm sorry for making this thread. I was hoping for a purely theological exercise.
Of course he is that's the troll who has no legitimate arguments in his favor and unabashedly ignores anything said by the opposition. I've debunked shit he's said multiple times but he just repeats his memes
see Here was an actual answer
sin is bad yes? free will is good yes? less sin and free will is by christian theological standards better. we know that God can create beings with free will and less sin than us. this means that objectively our nature is worse than what it could have been. really you just want to use "you can't know" as a way to dodge any ability to make any analysis of your religion
> You don't know that
Try to name one better state of existence for being that in not existence as the God. You can't do this and if you believe that there is one... Then you just doesn't understand concept of God, retard.
Jesus fucking THIS. If you don't believe in evolution because of "muh bible" you are a legitimate retard. Plenty of religious people accept science. Many of them are scientists themselves.
Nice Christian role-playing here! Can I accuse all of them for being heathens too?.. It isn't like faith could be more than a game at this point.
If your theology cannot handle basic questions why should I take any of this seriously? God intionally choose fallible human nature over superior angel or God nature (both of which are more resistant to sin and contain free will), knowing full well he would need to commit a ritual suicide in order to redeem the very nature he choose to have. The very center tenant of the religion is a giant plot.
This also raises further question. If God nature is completely resistant to the urge to sin than why did he bother with the angels in the first place who only have a 2/3rds success rate?
Maybe it's God's nature that is flawed?
The problem is that the church, both Orthodox and Catholic, hasn't always been accommodating towards evolution.
The Church Fathers themselves (and yes that includes Augustine) did not reach a consensus on whether or not Genesis was "literal", however we have every reason to believe they taught that all mankind was descended from an 'Adam' who lived about 6000 years ago. This touches on the doctrine of biblical inerrancy however that topic is probably beyond the scope of this thread.
You scare me
You guys are under that assumption that God wants to provide us with the most comfortable life possible
If you faggots ever read the bible you might know about a man named job
Adam can exist 6000 years ago while the Earth can be 6 billion years old.
Plus you sound like the Church fathers had radio carbon dating or something.
If your answer to the problem of evil is that God is an evil being than I can agree with you. This could be a logical theological position.
God is the great watch maker in the sky, he set everything up at the beginning and is now just sits back and watches. He created the primordial ooze and the right conditions for us to evolve to be what we are today. Every now and then he comes in and fixes a gear or two (see Moses and Jesus), but for the most part is completely hands off.
>You guys are under that assumption that God wants to provide us with the most comfortable life possible
no I was under the assumption God doesn't want us to sin. that has fuck all to do with Job, which by the way has an absolutely shitty message of u cant no nuffin
You do not have to believe in a literal Genesis but you do have to believe in Adam and Eve and "The Fall" if you're Catholic or Orthodox. That shit is doctrine, and they have anathematized people who argued against it.
If Adam existed 6000 years ago then there is no way that "original sin" could have spread to the entire human race by the time Jesus came to earth.
>Plus you sound like the Church fathers had radio carbon dating or something.
it doesn't matter that they didn't know the correct age of the universe, what matters is they used the bible for a source for the age of the universe, thus taking it literally
Catholics can believe in theistic evolution, but Adam and Eve have to be real and the first homosapiens to gain a soul.
Scientifically it's probably not perfect after all the question remains did Neanderthal have souls?
>provides you with every opportunity to save yourself and repent
>"it's his fault that I don't want to take responsibility for my actions and repent"
I bet you blame your mommy and daddy for all your issues too
This is actually closer to the interpretation the "writers" of Genesis were going for but this is absolutely not how the Church has interpreted it.
Please. You still havn't addressed the problem that God had 3 natures to choose from.
A God nature which cannot sin.
An angel nature which has a 2/3rds chance to not sin
A human nature which has a 100% rate of sin.
What God did is the equivelent of rolling a 6 sided dice and complaining he didn't get a 20.