What went wrong?
What went wrong?
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Idk but i'm fascinated with this country
hopefully we invade it once we're done with afghanistan
Somaliland is doing quite well desu senpai
>400 usd gdp per capita
I guess if you consider not dying 100% to be doing well
Communism, drought, over fishing
Better than your sorry NEET ass
Well you had a Junta get in power that decided they were more concerned with uniting "Greater Somalia" than they were with bettering the country.
They weren't doing unusually bad until they invaded Ethiopia in 1977. The Soviets dropped them, turned around and backed up Ethiopia, and thoroughly slapped their shit. From that point on, the regime was severely weakened, and, although they had got some token support from the US, they never enjoyed the kind of support they had under Soviet influence.
This all got compounded by the same drought that fucked Ethiopia and the collapsing economy that followed the Soviet withdrawal. The Barre regime fell in the early '90s, and they've been struggling to get a functioning government ever since.
>What went wrong?
it's populated by somalians
Didn't we already try that, kinda?
The answer to "What went wrong" is basically the same for most African counties. In chronological order,
>Cold war shenanigans
Don't forget ethnic conflicts
Fuck off you Anglo cuck
I hate how you try to pass of the theory that only British colonies in Africa were the successful ones, when Italian Somaliland was probably the best product of European colonialism. We gave them everything before their civil war; airports, theatres, stadiums, roads, schools and what not, while Kenya and South Africa were busy committing ethnic massacres
Italy hasn't been relevant since the Renaissance
>be fertile land next to beautiful ocean, littered with minerals
>have black people
Well there's your problem.
>Implying pizza rolls aren't more valuable than Somali currency
with few natural harbors without need for dredging technology
what use are uranium and large copper deposits located deep in the jungle requiring industrial-era technologies to access to any prospective agrarian society looking to advance in technology
Holy shit. I just did the math, it's 2.99 for 40 pizza rolls, 40/2.99= 0.134 cents, round to thirteen. Then I looked up Somali shilling to usd, it's equal to 0.0016. Pizza rolls are actually worth more.
These sub humans are flooding my country
t. Somalian who wants to migrate.
Europe for the Africans
Nah, that was a UN "peacekeeping" mission.
I hear their colonisation of Sweden is going well, they still have to deal with natives, and then there is the muslim competition too. I guess they are having it pretty good
>it's another letting people know that you're butthurt instead of discussing history thread
I'd argue that it was
>Cold War shenanigans
that had the most to do with it.
Barre got into power and decided he was going to spend all his efforts trying to unite "greater Somalia." So while he got a shit ton of support from the Soviets, instead of trying to better the country, he squandered it all on a massive (but still hilariously incompetent) military and funding terrorist groups in Ethiopia and Kenya.
Then he goes and invades Ethiopia in 1977 and the Soviets pull support. America wanted to fill the vacuum, but of course Carter wasn't too keen to openly support a brutal regime like Barre's (especially when they had just pulled support for Ethiopia due to human rights abuses), so Somalia was left with a shitty economy practically designed by the Soviets with nobody willing to deal with them.
Even though their army got almost completely annihilated in the war with Ethiopia, the support for terrorists continued and human rights abuses only got worse as the economy deteriorated. It seems like Barre never tried to fix the clusterfuck he created so much as just retain his hold on power, so once his regime finally fell, the country unsurprisingly imploded.
A lot of the problems they have now with terrorism are thanks to the fact that Barre was so happy to support Somali terrorist groups.
The government owns only its capital city. The rest is autonomous warlords and unrecognized governments. You think anybody cares about their currency?
They used to be pretty successful under Ajuuran and Mogadishu sultanates
somalis are muslim din jävla hanrej
AFAIK Somalia is one of the more ethnically / linguistically homogeneous countries in Africa (although there are a fair number of somalis outside of its borders). You'd think that would have made it more stable than it is.
Anyone actually been there?
Seems like it would be a nice place for a cheap beach / diving vacation without the crowds.
meant to quote Somaliland post
Somaliweyn was a worthwhile and inteligent goal.
Only the 1000 shilling note is used.
Somali never had "Warlords" it had clan generals
somalis in minnesota are doing just fine, its europes fault they they suck at integrating
>Somaliweyn was a worthwhile and inteligent goal.
Not when it brings the parts of the country you do control to ruin. Plus it's not like there was anything in Ogaden worth fighting over in the first place - it was just nationalistic dickwaving over some barren wasteland.
>Eternal Anglo and Friends colonize the shit out of Africa
>Africa gets fairly fucked up by this
>Eternal Anglo and Friends take a class on humanism and realize they need to release their colonies and give them majority rule
>Process is unpleasant, but things actually look good for the colonies
>USSR and China gommies recognize that the vast resources of Africa are currently controlled by weak transitional governments and that a definite power vacuum has been created
>Gommies fish out their old hand-me-down guns and traffic them to any warlord in Africa willing to kill whitey and install communist "utopia"
>These new African states are overthrown by warlords and they become dictators
>It turns out that warlords don't make for good dictators
>USSR kills itself and China loses interest in Africa
>Nobody to economically support dictators
>Zimbabwe tier countries ensue
I don't know anything about Somalia, but this seems to be the trend, how accurate am I?
That the italians didn't genocide them and populate somalia with italians.
Barre was a commie himself, and there was a war with Ethiopia and a bunch of proxy shit.
>genociding your racial kin
>>Eternal Anglo and Friends colonize the shit out of Africa
>>Africa gets fairly fucked up by this
I guess if you consider introducing savages to technology, civilization, and rule of law fucked up.
You're story can almost be applied to what happened, let me explain:
>Eternal Anglo and "Just fuck my shit up" Italy
>Seperate a people in two colonies
>Eternal Anglo doesn't interfere with the people, just wants to have a safe port for goods
>Italy interferes with people and slowly degenerates and corrupts the people and government
>years pass, wars pass, independency happens
>Eternal Anglo gives little british somaliland independence
>somaliland finally has independence!
>merges with degenerate other half
>lets them have control over the whole country
>what can possibly go wrong?
>civil war happens 30 years later
Honestly, they should've never merged together that's where shit went wrong. It's as if NK and SK become Korea again in a week. Both of their cultures are incompatible despite being the same people.
Why haven't Ethiopia annexed them yet? They had multiple opportunities through history since Somalia was never a unified polity. It especially shows in the 19th century when all the strong sultanates collapsed and the emperor was joing in on the colonial game and could have easily taken all of Somalia instead of the Ogaden region.
That is like defending a math teacher for molesting his students by saying he taught them all really good math while he was at it.
>Everyone in the world wants the same things
Likely a combination of ethnic reasons, plus the fact that any kind of operation into Somalia requires you to go through the desolate wasteland that is Ogaden.
More recently, it's probably because once Soviet support kicked in, the US started offering just enough token support for Somalia to prevent Ethiopia from invading.
Ethiopia is already facing some issues with it's populations. Adding more is gonna wreck it further
Because poorer countries get some of that military DOSH from the UN when they peacekeep foreign countries. So Perverse incentives since you lose that much needed military money to modernize your forces to making sure the place status stable isn't the most important thing on your mind.
>somalis in minnesota
i heard that there's a high rate of african migrants to alaska that end up killing themselves. what compels them to move from hot africa to freezing cold northern states?
everyone kills themselves in alaska
but in MN, many came because the job market was good in the late 90s and the 3rd party relief organizations and the local/state govs were experienced with helping the hmong/viets from a decade earlier
warm clothing, shelter, and climate control technology
Tribalism in a 'modern' nation.
It's hilarious during the summer when all the natives are wearing really light clothes to keep cool but the immigrants from Canada and Africa are always wearing full winter clothes
*mexico not Canada
Can anyone recommend any good books for reading up on the history of Africa?
I understand that's a very generic/big ask, so summaries to get up to speed on the continent would be helpful.
That's actually a surprisingly apt analogy
That's as vague a question as asking for a book about the history of Europe. You're going to have to narrow it down to regions and more specific time periods.
If you're concerned with recent history of the Horn of Africa and you're interested in the Ogaden War, I'd suggest checking out Wings over Ogaden by Tom Cooper. It's a fairly short read that mostly talks about the air campaign of the war, but he does a good job explaining the background of the war for an audience that knows next to nothing about the area.
>Mexicans in Alaska
Yeah but we pussied out
>good beach vacation
Go away mufasa
Nah, best colony was Eritrea, people there actually fought for Italy tooth and nail until they were forced into Ethiopia
>Somali never had "Warlords" it had clan generals
A rose is a rose by any other name
Except they weren't savages, they were a fairly advanced, sea-faring people since antiquity. Somali ports show up on Roman and Greek maps, and when the Portuguese tried to take the city in the 16th century, they had to nope the fuck out of there. Even the British struggled to fully occupy their part. It took them 20 years and the first bombing campaign after WWI to fully take the territory. Somalia was actually a lot more prosperous in the past than it is today. They didn't need white people to teach them about "technology, civilization and the rule of law" you fuckwit.
If they weren't savages, why did they get colonized in the first place? Where were their trains and guns and skyscrapers?
They colonized in the 1920s only after doing fierce fighting with the Europeans (a little known conflict)
Just like the middle east they weren't industrialized like western Europe but they had firearms passed down to them by the Ottomans and through trading during the 1500s-1600s. Also, large buildings and palaces were constructed during the past.
So basically what you're saying is that they were a solid 300-400 years behind Europe. Sound like a bunch of savages to me. I'm not really seeing your argument here.
They had all of the above which you asked except industrialization.
If not being western means being savage then I guess Eastern Europe, The Middle East, and most of Asia are 'savage'.
This is what cuckservatives ACTUALLY believe
>They had all of the above which you asked except industrialization.
They had literally nothing that I said. They had no skyscapers or trains, and the guns they did have were 400 years old. They did not have modern technology, they were not industrialized. They were savages and they deserved to feel the grasp of European civilization.
>If not being western means being savage then I guess Eastern Europe, The Middle East, and most of Asia are 'savage'.
I see you've realized that your argument is pretty shit, so you've resorted to putting words in my mouth. I'd agree that the Middle East and Asia, barring one or two exceptions, were overwhelmingly uncivilized at the time. Eastern Europe, depending on where exactly you're talking about, was either modernized at the time or in the process of modernizing. Either way they were more than a step above the barbarians of Africa and Asia.
Americans today remind me of the Chinese in 1800. So fucking infantile and close minded
Your standards for not being barbaric are way out of touch
Are you the offspring of some rich Somali mass murderer and studying abroad?
Isn't it funny then that those 400 year old guns humilated the Italians? Reminder that their leader "The Mad Mullah" recieved weapons from the Ottomans and others in the middle east which were more up to par for 20th century standards and proceded to beat the British multiple times. This close contact with the middle ensured Somalia never fell too far behind and, if they had the desire, they probably could have tried to moderize themselves by means of being self-independent.
And no, they did not deserve to "feel the grasp of European cicilization" they felt that their security was threatened and retailiated. Their way of living was confortable to them and fit the mold more better with the rest of the non European world. Your definition of civilized is quite cherrypicked as well.
Jealousy is one hell of a feel there, Hassan.
How silly of me, I forgot that white, cis-gendered men are backwards barbarians. Only strong black kingz of Africa are civilized.
>Isn't it funny then that those 400 year old guns humilated the Italians?
Humiliating the Italians is by no means an accomplishment.
>And no, they did not deserve to "feel the grasp of European cicilization" they felt that their security was threatened and retailiated.
That's a pretty shitty worldview to have. Why do you think that Somalis don't deserve the same comforts of civilization that we get? We're all humans and we all deserve reap the benefits of modernity.
The power/order vacuum left by the collapse of an authoritarian gov't with no (domestic) democratic precedent
Foreign meddling which exacerbated armed conflict
By that metric
>2040s: foreign power enforcing free trade on the US leads to military humiliation and the ceding of some port to their control
>2050s/60s: zealous Christians try to form Heavenly Republic, provoking a devastating war
>foreign powers support the sovereignty of some remote territory a la Tibet
>2090s: upstart neighbour (Canada? why not) fights, and wins, control over a contested region
>Turn of the 22nd C.: grassroots nationalist rebellion against foreign influence leads to multinational military intervention
>territorial degradation; further concessions to foreign powers
>2110s: revolution against presidency, establishment of new/different form of government
/autism. It was fun.
You're out of your fucking mind.
Somalis hate Ethiopians. Like, really fucking hate them. I'm talking Greek-Turk levels of hatred. They have a history of warfare, genocide, and general violence between the two of them that goes back centuries. Somalis would never accept Ethiopian rule.
Ethiopia is the US's strongest partner in Eastern Africa right now. The Ethiopian Army is miles ahead of the Kenyan one despite lower funding.
>Ethiopia is the US's strongest partner in Eastern Africa right now.
Oh yeah that makes sense. They were really big US allies before the Derg took power, and the Soviets pumped a shit ton of money into their military. Once the Derg finally lost control, it makes sense that we'd try to fill the vacuum.