Was there ever a bigger idiot then him in charge of an Army?
Battle of Carrhae
Was there ever a bigger idiot then him in charge of an Army?
Battle of Carrhae
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a man who owned approx 25% of the whole country couldn't have been an idiot
He might have been a good businessman but he has no place on the battlefield. Protip: slaves don't count as adversaries
Btw hes worth would be over 2 TRILLION in todays terms that the entire net of US GDP! The richest man in History ever makes Bill Gates look like modest in comparison.
Hey Veeky Forums, what are some good books on this absolute madman?
He's the reason we have the term "fire sale", that craft fucker.
in case someone wants to know what he means by this
According to Plutarch's "Life of Crassus", Crassus made most of his fortune through "rapine and fire".
"When buildings were burning, Crassus and his purposely-trained crew would show up, and Crassus would offer to purchase the presumably doomed property and perhaps neighboring endangered properties from their owners for speculatively low sums; if the purchase offer was accepted, Crassus would then use his army of some 500 slaves which he purchased due to their knowledge of architecture and building to put the fire out, sometimes before too much damage had been done: otherwise Crassus would use his crews to rebuild. If his purchase offers were not accepted, then Crassus would not engage in firefighting."
What the fuck is this number, 25% of the treasury is not the same as 25% of the country.
>The richest man in History
He wasn't even the richest man he knew. Both Caesar and Pompey became richer than him after campaigning in Gaul and the East, bringing back enough spoil to match years worth of the roman treasury income. Augustus literally threw around the equivalent of Crassus' total worth just to buy the loyalty of the legions during the latter civil wars.
It was actually 100% of the treasury.
Also, Augustus just got the stuff by either inheriting it from Caesar or by proscribing people, while Crassus made his money
He as the undoubtedly Richest Man in history. Your mistaking Power with Wealth accumulation. By that equation Hitler would be the Richest men in the 20th century.
Like he didn't start those fires himself.
No idiot, roman war spoils were private income, not public. What Caesar and Pompey (and Lucullus for that matter) brought back from their campaigns was their own private property.
Don't forget the money he inherited from daddy Octavius, that was a shitload of money too. And what does it matter that he made it himself, still not the richest guy.
Spoils of war =/= Wealth
let me guess
>Spoils of war =/= Wealth
Why even. No roman would ever agree with you. Nor would pretty much any society in human history aside from our modern post colonialist western one.
Can you explain to me why Hitler isnt considered one of the Richest Men?
I think he was talking about real-estate, but i don't think he owned 25% of Roman real-estate. More like he owned +70% of Roman (city) real estate
Because Hitler wasn't legally entitled to claim individual spoils of war, whereas roman soldiers were. Really of all examples of monarchs you could (still fallaciously) give to support your argument, why choose Hitler who so obviously doesn't have a legal basis to claim german wealth as private property?
>I think he was talking about real-estate, but i don't think he owned 25% of Roman real-estate. More like he owned +70% of Roman (city) real estate
Still absolutely ridiculous desu. I'd like to see anyone with any kind of souce to back that shit up.
>yfw you realize how astronomically rich Romans were
Anyone who says that Romans would be poor by today's standards needs to read a fucking book.
Hitler was an Absolute ruler. He could do as the Caesars and mint his face on the Reichsmark. Yet his Wealth was never tied to his Power. Again you mistaking Power with Wealth and they arent the same. Power results from votes, force or God. Wealth results from others slave or contractual labor and speculation both which Crassus engaged in.
Actually that number is much too big.
For one thing, the reoman republican treasury was nowhere near the richest even just in the Mediterranean region (Augustus brought back enough money to cover a decade worth of government budget after annexing Egypt for example). Can't really use the US budget to make that comparison.
Your wrong. US budget isnt tied to its debt. Rome never had a Fiat economy everything was derived from a quantitative value like Gold, Silver, Produce or Labor.
Are you retarded? Why are you making up definitions? Wealth is the abundance of valuable resources or valuable material possessions.
Hitler wasn't the legal owner of Germany's wealth. He might have been if he chose to pass a law about it, but he fucking didn't.
On the other hand, war spoils for roman soldiers were considered part of their compensation for military service.
Sorry that you cant understand that both Hitler and Augustus already had the power to make laws at the signing of a pen.
What's that supposed to prove? Rome didn't have sizeable cash reserves, by the time of the second triumvirate losing access to the yearly eastern taxation meant inability to pay the legions.
So fucking what? He didn't.
I live 10km from the german border, Hitler could have seized my house easy as kiss myu hand during ww2, but didn't. Does that still make him the owner of my house from 1936 to 1945?
>Rome didn't have sizeable cash reserves
but it did have pretty large amount of resources and a massive population that could be taxed including millions of slaves. Btw todays economy isnt much different when you equate slavery with millions of Southeastern Asians working for 50 cents an hour.
It means your house was under the dominion of the Reich. The title to your home remained the same.
>It means your house was under the dominion of the Reich.
Wrong. It was under the dominion of the Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft.
See now the difference between could and did?
He wasn't bad, it were the Parthians that were too fucking strong and clever.
Cleon's up there too. Bonus points because he's set up as the opposite to Brasidas who was Elder God tier
>Btw todays economy isnt much different
That's not what modern historians believe.
The per capita estimates are around 1000$, plus minus 500$ depending on the research paper.
Consider also that they had 1/6 of the population as the US, and that they basically only raised as much taxes as required to pay for the legions, since most public works and almost all bureaucracy were done at the expense of the presiding magistrate.
At least they he managed to somehow get to Brasidas
>He wasn't bad, it were the Parthians that were too fucking strong and clever.
Carrhae was a horrendous series of strategical and tactical blunders. He was led straight into a trap by a man in the parthians pay, and he completely ignored all conventional roman military doctrine and his advisors' advice.
its no wonder
No wonder that I know what private property is?
I thought that everybody knew about it. Even commies understand the concept.
I think what he means is that Germany never invaded Switzerland. Its huge fucking mountains make it nearly impervious to attacks like a giant castle.
Hitler also never appropriated the german treasury.
The political raminifactions of such an act would have made it just as retarded as attacking Switzerland (and more retarded than attacking my house since there's no mountain between it and the border and it would literally only have taken the troops to move in to take it). See my point?
>basically only raised as much taxes as required to pay for the legions
but weren't most Legionares kinda like mercs then instead of actual soldiers? Even Auxiliaries were slaves. what happened if they couldnt pay off the Legions like Ceasar having left his troops in the rut for years without pay ultimately giving them Romes conquered lands.
Carrhae was a disaster, but other than that, Crassus had a pretty solid career: he did the bulk of the victorious campaigning against Spartacus, for example, even if he was robbed of the credit.
In any event, you had way worse boobs in command of armies throughout history. Guys like Pemberton and Elphingstone were WAY worse.
>tfw i actually got over 50 (you)s in a /mu/ thread
>even if he was robbed of the credit
Pompey was a overated General
>but weren't most Legionares kinda like mercs then instead of actual soldiers?
No. they were contracted soldiers with an obligation to stay in service for a number of years (7 to 25 depending on the time period), with a regular pay and right to share in the war spoils.
>Even Auxiliaries were slaves.
Absolutely not. They were just non citizens , but still mostly volunteers. Even those who weren't still coudn't be considered slaves (no more than any other conscripted soldier could). They were paid and shared in spoils too (albeit at alesser rate compared to the legions).
>what happened if they couldnt pay off the Legions like Ceasar having left his troops in the rut for years without pay ultimately giving them Romes conquered lands.
They mutinied or deserted. Both criminal behaviour under roman law btw. Also Caesar didn't leave his troops unpaid, he made so much money during his campaigns that he was richer than the republic itself. And the land he gave the troops didn't count as pay, it was a traditional end of service donative.
>Also Caesar didn't leave his troops unpaid, he made so much money during his campaigns that he was richer than the republic itself.
are you telling me his war haul stretched for miles? anyway in some chill documentary i saw it appeared that when Caesar made it back to Rome he ordered the Treasury be opened and looted the gold in carts to pay off his men.
Caesar did not come back to Rome with all his troops and spoils, he came back with a single legion. He sacked the tresury because upon entering the city the three legions that guarded it defected to him, and he needed money to pay them.
got it thanks for clarifying. your pretty good at this Roman history. got any good books i can read for starters?
If you have no previous knowledge, Everitt's books are pretty good and easy to read. He wrote biographies of Cicero, Caesar and Augustus, giving you a thorough history of the 70-20 period.
Actually let me amend that: Caesar's bio was written by Goldsworthy. Everitt wrote Cicero, Augustus and Hadrian.
got it most of what i know about Rome came from shallow history lessons or acted out documentaries
Most were poor and lived in squalor. By the end of it, the rich had amassed so much political power, that the poor were taxed to the limit, so much that they could not reproduce. That is why they needed immigration to keep up their population.
Seems like we're headed in the same direction.
>private property is?
If we are talking about commies, they consider a house you live in to be personal property. Private property would be something like a factory where you don't work, but extract profits from.
Well, yes. Look at the birth rates, and the low birth rates of "white" Americans. They are being outcompeted and replaced by Latinos who have a lower cost structure due to a superior culture and immmigrate in large numbers due to NAFTA destroying their country.
In a Finn. Does not apply.
>Total War graphics and soundtrack
Crassus was a moron at Carrhae. But people neglect to mention that Surena was also a prodigy at war himself. The Arsacid general was young as shit, yet singlehandedly won Ordoes II his throne after the civil war.
The saddest part of the whole backdrop of the failure of the First Triumvirate was Surena being murdered by his own ruler who he was absolutely loyal to.
Would Julius Caeser be able to defeat the Parthian Empire if he wasn't cucked by his own Senate?
We have zero ideas. Marc Anthony also suffered a humiliating attempt at a Parthian expedition against the Arsacids and Octavian did not feel remotely confident about entering war with their empire given how much civil war wracked the Roman Empire.
Its a complete speculative theory.
He could've done as well as Trajan before realizing he's over-extending the territory Rome has to administrate and garrison. Or he could've done as bad as Crassus and Marc Athony. We don't know.
>born into wealth
>uses shady and dubious tactics to accue more wealth
>clearly knows nothing about foreign policy and lead a headlong charge into a meatgrinder
>First as a tragedy, then as a farce.
Roman infantry struggled against cavalry. Parthian soceity was arragned so that it could field lots of cavalry.
Every russian leader ever ?
Like I said in my earlier post, we have no idea how things would've played out. What do you think would've happened if Ordoes II hadn't had Surena assassinated? Would they have conquered the entirety of the Roman East?
Galba was super rich too right?
For some reason I thought he was the richest guy, but I can't recall where I first got that idea.
Yes, Caesar could pull victory out of nowhere
It has to be Boadicea
Werent Caesar and Pompey in a fuck tonne of debt because of their wars?
Caesar was in serious debt before his wars.
He definitely would have, at least some of the time.
Didn't he retreat?
I doubt it. At the moment, the Parthians were in a two way war. Maybe they just didn't want to get into it with Romans in an area where they had advantage.
The desert did provide a strong defense where they could easily fight them with horse. And also make it hard for them to siege anything, since foraging food and protecting supply lines in a desert is a bitch.
No one knows, but if they had wanted to attack, I doubt it depended in a single general.
A highly competent pairing of the son of Ordoes II and a Roman traitor general nearly did do all that. Surena was vastly superior to Ordoes II son, so its entirely possible.