Why does everyone hate her?

Falklands is a meme war

it boosted nationalistic feeling (god knows why), the main important outcome was the retention of the various benefits tied to control of the Falklands

but imo it is largely irrelevant to assessing Thatcher as a leader. unless you care terribly about the sinking of the Belgrano but i dont really

Pol Pot? You got a source?

Built first ironclad warship

>the year of our lord jesus christ 2016
>actually supporting Mandela instead of apartheid government after seeing what South Africa has become in the years since
literally unjustifiable

>if you fuck an AIDS sufferer without a condom just have a shower afterwards lol it will be fine trust me ive done it myself t. current leader of South Africa

newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2014/04/how-thatcher-gave-pol-pot-hand

that is my major criticism of Thatcher to be honest

her relationship with Reagan and the USA

Because neoliberalism is he worst thing that has happened to the modern world.

>rolls eyes to heaven

>in b4 /pol/ whining about degenerate neoliberals

>Thatcher took power in 1979
>Pol Pot was deposed by the NVA in 1979

What

She backed him in exile in Thailand.

Most /pol/tards praise neoliberal leaders like Reagan and Pinochet.

Neoliberalism is a meme. It just means stuff you don't like.

And also, people don't hate Thatcher. She won three elections handsomely, the opposition weren't even close. Her successor won another election, and Labour then had to copy her policies to win.

I put it to you that Thatcher and her policies are more popular than any alternative, and the last nine UK elections prove it.

...

>Why does everyone hate her?
Not everyone hates her.

Thatcher's policies were socially, culturally and economically divisive. They involved selling to private individuals government property that many in the working class, and more in the politically organised working class, considered common wealth. This irritated a large body of people.

Additionally, for the politically organised working class her union busting led to a long term antipathy.

Many felt that her war in the Falklands was a ridiculous frippery.

Finally her attempts to implement a capitation in Scotland and England, a "poll tax" caused mass resentment due to a detestation of taxes, and a belief that regressive taxation was unfair.

Reminder that she did nothing wrong by breaking the unions over her knee, the bastards had too much power already

>Many felt that her war in the Falklands was a ridiculous frippery.
I thought this was the one thing everyone liked.
Also I'm sure the Falklanders themselves don't think of it as "ridiculous frippery".

>didn't lift a finger to help US/Australia in Vietnam
Nigga what? She entered office in 1979.

"fuck all people who i don't like"
"only what i say is right"
"hahahah how is society real nigga like go back inside your home nigga"
">commonwealth >COMMON >WEALTH"
"political pottery is a good man, so what if some yellow people died"

t. margaret tacher

>Corbyn
>militantly left wing

lol

I know. He did propaganda for the Iranian government FFS.

>people don't hate Thatcher

>I put it to you that Thatcher and her policies are more popular than any alternative, and the last nine UK elections prove it.

it is definitely not a meme, it has concrete meaning and denotes specific economic and social policies

She is the Ronald Reagan of the UK

Very effective as a leader but depending on your side of the political spectrum you will either fucking hate the shit out of her or love the shit out of her

How? Because apart from the elections which Thatcher won, purely because Labour were an absolute joke, you have Major, who everyone loved precisely because he wasn't Thatcher, Blair who was popular because he was labour and so even less like Thatcher (on paper) and then a hung parliament which the Tories managed to snag only with Lib Dem help and then Cameron, who still faced significant opposition; not least from Scotland who almost entirely rejected all the Westminster parties.

I put it to you that it's only the conservatives actually like Thatcher.

>I thought this was the one thing everyone liked.
Go read The Tin Pot Foreign General and the Old Iron Woman.

Also a lot of people didn't like the Three Penny Opera of condemned ships sinking.

>but it's the left that care about people, not the evil conservatives, i wish they would all die

>muh strawman on a photo with no context

Oh I see. She only won because Labour were a joke. Not because her policies were popular. Bet Labour are kicking themselves for being a joke when they could have been in power the whole time.

Maybe only Conservatives liked Thatcher, but they seemed to outnumber non-conservatives. If everyone who wasn't a conservative hated Thatcher it should have been easy to beat her in an election.

Why have her economic policies been continued by every subsequent government? It's almost as if there is a correlation between electability and being Thatcherite

tl;dr you are clutching at straws. People like it and they vote for it. Come up with something better or stop whining. You can't seriously believe Thatcherism is unpopular. All the evidence is against you

Well precisely.

The left cares about people, which is why they hate sociopaths like Thatcher.

Fuck Thatcher. I went to a party when she died it was great. This speech is great.

youtube.com/watch?v=KVHuxixPJRA

>go read some old picture book
why

It directly refutes the prior claim? Go read the fucking sticky.

Just like cultural marxism right?

Celebrating someones death is pretty sociopathic tbqh senpai.

>It's almost as if there is a correlation between electability and being Thatcherite.

No there isn't you fucking moron. Cameron is only elected PM since Thatcher who is actually a self acknowledged Thatcherite.

Major and Blair both won on the promise that they were not going to be like Thatcher. Whether or not they continued her economic policies AFTER the election is meaningless.

You have to look at the election promises, and consider the question whether it's even possible NOT to continue we economic policies after she completely reorganised Britain's economy.

Further, the conservatives DON'T outnumber everyone else, they just outnumbered everyone else who voted, les than 70% of registered voters.

>some people liked it, ergo everyone likes it

You're a moron.

what does the sticky have to do with thatcher and her popularity in england.

>She only won because Labour were a joke. Not because her policies were popular.

Absolutely correct, unless you think people thought Scargill and his crew were fit to lead.

>a high level of discourse is expected. …

>When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

Fuck off back to the other place.

Not really, it's a fairly natural human response.

I mean, if you kill a Nazi in a video game you don't feel bad, do you?

>Neoliberalism is a meme
meme and cuck are two words that should be banned here, i swear to god.

I'm sorry I don't consider a children's picture book a reputable source.

How about this: Neoliberalism is a vacuous term with no stable definition. It is used to characterise policies that actually involve massive state investment and a coordinated market system.

Then it is your fundamental loss. The question was whether people opposed the Falklands war. The presence of an anti-Falklands war picture book which was widely sold, award winning, and typifying of a position in the politics of Great Britain tends to be suasive to the literate.

Consider switching to sociology where secondary source only analysis is acceptable, and where your eminent skills in "discourse analysis" will serve you well.

>It is used to characterise policies that actually involve massive state investment
Elaborate.

Most people agree that Thatcher and Reagan are typifying of "Neo-liberals," no? Both oversaw massive increases in state expenditure on weapons systems, and moved state services from a bureaucratic model to a controlled capitalist model through limited tendering systems.

Hawke/Keating in Australia, often accused of neo-liberalism for its bank deregulation massively expanded the public health and education system out of state expenditure.

The term is largely vacuous: post 1972 western government have seen a tendency to increase the predation of state-aid dependents, but the scope and volume of this state-aid has increased massively: in weapons systems, procurement, and welfare.

Moreover, the development of the Public-Private-Partnership method of construction of infrastructure has led to a massive wave of state infrastructure spending, now that this state expenditure is acceptable to the construction cartels.

I mean shit, it is like people don't bother to check theoretical claims against empirical data.

she's a fucking bastard who murdered a MP, instituted a shoot-first-ask-questions-later policy and just is an overall cunt

too bad the lads at Brighton didn't have a wee bit more gelignite

going 2 bust a nut 2 Maggie desu

She's a terrorist.

Was, mate, was.

>Patsy the Arab

One Struggle.

>cerebral patsy

I guess that's also why they want to let in hundreds of thousands of Islamic economic migrants who hate gay people, hate Jews and have already raped and sexually assaulted women en masse in Germany and Sweden.

Anything to show everyone how 'progressive' you are I guess. Even if that means refusing to criticise people who are seen as a minority in the West.

>this butthurt
Major was Thatchers preferred successor and people knew it. They could have voted for Kinnock, but they preferred to stay with what was working. Labour learned the lesson of the 1992 election quickly, why haven't you?

Blair was electable because he was the first, and last labour leader to understand business and privatization were good things. He wouldn't have won three elections as a socialist.

>Further, the conservatives DON'T outnumber everyone else, they just outnumbered everyone else who voted

That's democracy bitch. And for all you know, all the people who don't vote are secretly tory.

Scargill was not Labour leader. That would be Callaghan, Foot, Kinnock, Blair, Brown, Milliband, and Corbyn. Spot the odd one out there (hint: the right wing Thatcherite guy actually won elections. His party hates him)

Which one? I thought Bobby Sands committed suicide. A choice he denied his victims.
Shoot first is the best policy for murderous terrorists, look at the Paris attacks

Thanks for your high quality views on politics.

Unfortunately you seem to have made a typo. You seem to have accidentally typed "his" when you intended to type "pol."

Please don't make this mistake in future.

Please explain how thatcher is responsible for the death of a man, who under no duress, committed suicide.

Please explain to me how a terrorist and murderer who killed innocents indiscriminately is deserving of sympathy.

>Other shit exists.
That's nice. History doesn't deal in value judgements such as "responsibility" or "irresponsibility" for deaths. Nor does it deal in value judgements such as "terrorist" "murderer" "innocent" "indiscriminate" or "sympathy."

Regarding the matter of indiscriminicy: you are factually incorrect.

Could you post your valuable value judgements elsewhere, such as on /pol/ where they belong.

Had she not cut defense spending, we wouldn't have had to go take the Falklands back. Considering the government was ready to sell our Avro Vulcans to the Argies, you can guess Thatcher didn't give a fuck about the military unless it involved flogging military equipment to despot states.

She funded the Khmer Rouge against the NVA because the idea of Soviet-backed Commies beating US/UK-backed Commies was infuriating to her. Also her blockade of aid to Vietnam such as milk, resulted in a generation of malnutrition, effectively making her a 'milk snatcher".

You can't hide behind objectivity when you disagree with me about the evaluation of the facts. Further the legal definitions of "terrorist" and " murderer" apply to Sands and not thatcher.

There's no difference between private and public moralities when it comes to historiography.

Here's some SAFE claims, "Sands was prosecuted and convicted for murder and terrorism," "[Organisation X] declared Sands to be a terrorist in 19YY," "Margaret Thatcher was never prosecuted for any unlawful death."

Notice how these don't contain a value judgement purporting to be a fact?

Seriously, go to /pol/, your capacity to think isn't up to par for Veeky Forums.

Fuck off back to history 101. Any history that does not evaluate the facts is lacking. Evaluation is the only reason to do or read history.

>facts
Ha ha, oh wow.

Ejaculating pathetic party political lines with no documentary connection isn't "evaluation" mateywatey.

Nor is history comprised of "facts."

Do you want to explain yourself? Or to you only wish to feign superiority?

Saving Britain from collapsing economically and becoming Italy 2.0
Lefties are just retards that cant understand her greatness.

If you want to support the contention that history is comprised of facts, feel free to demonstrate that monads or absolute ideas exist and that, contra Hume, human knowledge can produce them from a fallible and contradictory documentary record.

Everyone else thinks you're an epistemological fucking idiot pissing in his pants.

So did Bobby Sands starve to death or not?

>apatheid in South Africa
What is wrong with this. Look what south Africa has become after Nelson, the destroyer of countries,Mandela. A pity that negros took power and destroyed a prosperous country making it a shithole with 27% of unenployment, with violence and raping everywhere.

I'm just using common language here. There is no need to get into the deep philosophical questions.

My position on knowledge isn't as you assume, but I'm not an autist so I am able to use the common language to speak to people who do not share my philosophical worldview.

Fuck off back to freshman year.

All thise people saved there countries from collapsed. Rip based Pinochet. You saved your country from becoming Venezuela on steroids.

>They involved selling to private individuals government property that many in the working class, and more in the politically organised working class, considered common wealth
Do you mean to stop leeching unprofitable industries,that costed tax payers a shit tone of money? Thank god that she did that.

>I'm trying to defend /pol/ posting
Good on you, do that on /pol/.

Your "philosophical world view" is shared by Durant.

>Do you mean to stop leeching unprofitable industries,that costed tax payers a shit tone of money?
>shit tonne

Also public housing units.

The point isn't whether this is desirable or not, but that it divided public opinion in Great Britain leading to some people liking her greatly, and others despising her bitterly.

She did what it had to be done. If she didnt do it,great Brotain would have an uncompetitive economy and the UK's GDP per capita would be Spain or Italy tier.
If a bunch of miners had to lose their jobs,for the overall health of the economy,so be it.

Thanks for your high quality views on politics.

Unfortunately you seem to have made a typo. You seem to have accidentally typed "his" when you intended to type "pol."

Please don't make this mistake in future.

Is anything false? We are talking about Thatcher. She saved the economy period. If you leftards dont like different opinions,you can go and fuck yourselfs in your safe spaces,in which you can agree on your made up """"""scientific"""""""" """"""""theories"""""""" about economy.

As far as I recall it was the IRA scum who were killing MPs.
Would you like to try a cheeseburger bobby sands?

To be honest she didn't have to give milk, it would have been nice of her to do so though.

Thanks for your high quality views on politics.

Unfortunately you seem to have made a typo. You seem to have accidentally typed "his" when you intended to type "pol."

Please don't make this mistake in future.

I thought she was pretty funny

> The Foreign Office proposed a counter-strategy founded upon a distinction between 'sovereignty' and 'administration'. It suggested that Thatcher aim to reach an agreement with China whereby Britain would cede a titular sovereignty over Hong Kong to Peking, in exchange for Peking's formal agreement **to allow British administration to remain in place in Hong Kong beyond 1997.** Thatcher eventually digested the proposal in principle **more easily** than the Foreign Office had feared

independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/how-mrs-thatcher-lost-hong-kong-ten-years-ago-fired-up-by-her-triumph-in-the-falklands-war-margaret-thatcher-flew-to-peking-for-a-lastditch-attempt-to-keep-hong-kong-under-british-rule--only-to-meet-her-match-in-deng-xiaoping-two-years-later-she-signed-the-agreement-handing-the-territory-to-china-1543375.html

> Thatcher later said that Deng told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that "I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_sovereignty_over_Hong_Kong#Talks

> Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping tells her that sovereignty is not negotiable and China will take back Hong Kong on its own terms in 1997 no matter whether UK agrees or not.

> Mrs Thatcher falls off steps after talks with Chinese leader on Hong Kong issue

liveleak.com/view?i=ecd_1365482566

Name Bobby Sands victims. He never killed anyone, he was convicted of holding weapons

So what were these guns for? I know they have a range of household uses.
According to the Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN), a research project at the University of Ulster, the Provisional IRA was responsible for the deaths of 1,823 people during the Troubles up to 2001. 581 (31.8%) were classed as civilians.

>Four people were killed as a result of the massive blast, including two babies—Tracey Munn (2) and Colin Nichol (17 months)—who both died instantly when part of the wall crashed down upon the pram they were sharing.[2] Two employees working inside the shop were also killed: Hugh Bruce (70) and Harold King (29).[4] Unlike the other three victims, who were Protestant, King was a Catholic.[5]

They were caught fleeing the site of the bombing and got into a gun battle with the military.

Please read the sticky and keep your discussion 1990 and prior.

Sands committed his murders in the 70s.

Doesn't relate to the CAIN source quoted, maybe you can quote a modern source relating to Sands murdering people in the 1970s.

Did he push the wall down on them?

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