Tell me about haiti. Why has it always been a miserable shit hole. Was it bad soil? Lack of domesticateable animals...

tldr: Dinduism.

But there are other carrib states doing well and Haiti problems were not solely from the revolution and you are an.idiot to think so while ignoring the other more impactful shit.

"Always been."

No.

The revolution fucked shit up, but much more importantly the MASSIVE FUCKING DEBT the French forced on them removed the possibility of them becoming a successful state.

If it wasn't for France being petty, they'd be the best Caribbean nation.

They deserved all that they got.

Then there was the American takeover, papa and baby doc, various forced removals of presidents from outside forces, earthquake, company interference, forced dependency.

ehhhhh no they could have been ok but the economy was nowhere near as big as it was before the revolution. The truth of the matter was that for producing sugar and coffee slavery was the best answer at that time. Once most of the infrastructure was damaged during the revolution and chattel slavery was abolished there was no way to regain their previous place. That being said it was the French induced debt and the fact that no one wanted to recognize a slave republic in Caribbean that turned it into the poorest country. This lack of recognition also hurt trade even more. Also the government of Haiti was never effective unless it was despotic. Finally, the Haitians deforested their land to the point of catastrophe.

...

Seriously:
businessinsider.com/wikileaks-haiti-minimum-wage-the-nation-2011-6?IR=T

White people.

I mean, yeah, France was being petty of you want to use simple terms. But let's not pretend murdering every single white person on the island was a good idea

All the answers here will try to tiptoe around the answer but it's really as simple as that they're black.

That didn't mean haitians had good lives. Probably only the french ones.

I'm really fucking tired of this meme.

>big mean ole foreign power forced it on them!!
>they're just big meanies!
>poor little guys!
>abloo bloo bloo

You can only get shit forced on you becuse you have no political clout, your leaders are shitty, and your planning, preparation and determination all blowed. Haiti's leaders let it be in a position to be exploited, Haiti's people were too apathetic to get or produce better leaders, Haiti fucked up because its people fucked up and a country that wasn't led by incompetent buffoons exploited the one that was.

It's the people of Haiti's fault bad things happened to Haiti.

I'm not saying that at all. Slaves were such a cheap commodity that it cost less to import slaves than keep them alive

WE WAS RICH N SHIT
Then whitey forced debnts on us despite the fact we DINDU NUFFIN

literally blame the victim: the post

They let themselves be victims and put themselves in a situation to get exploited.

>They let themselves be victims

They were literally kidnapped into slavery...

>Women let themselves be victims and put themselves in a situation to get raped.
This is how you sound.

>kill all french citizens
>be upset when the french don't like it
por que

Shut up you shitposting /pol/tard. That has nothing to do with anything, stop trying to derail the thread.

And then they weren't slaves anymore and were free to choose what to do.

Cont. The average life span of a slave on saint domingue was a little over 4 years. The work was absolutely brutal and relentless. During harvesting season the sugar boilers needed to be running day and night to process sugar cane into a refined product. But the French planters were just as keen on improving their plantations. They invested tremendously in improvements. Infrastructure was improved and huge irrigation works were constructed to put previously arid soils under cultivation. One central valley of haiti is in fact a desert and it through irrigation it was made into a fertile area.

Tldr the soil or crops were not bad at all. French planters were very attentive to innovation and the colony was seen as model of agricultural production before the revolution

>And then they weren't slaves anymore

Which is why everyone shunned them, because they broke out of slavery. So what exactly are they supposed to do? I mean, I'm not saying they did a good job or anything (certainly they didn't, not knowing how to do anything but menial labor), but they were in an impossible position to begin with.

i also think thats how it sounds though
maybe..
maybe YOU'RE the shitposter??

>giving coherent explanations
Get off my board

I though they killed whitey after they stopped being slaves

It's due to sheer incompetence of the natives. As the video pointed out, the Haitians were given support several times only to wreck it every time.

You're trying to steer this into sexual politics and rape cases, no, you're the shitposter.

Niggers.

>So what exactly are they supposed to do?
Why does it always come down to this? Does my inability to more adequately navigate 19th century international politics in your mind somehow justify their decisions as competent or reasonable?

The facts stand, they made their decisions and they were unprepared for global politics and they paid the price.

He was pointing out that your argument is retarded by using reductio ad absurdum, one of the most basic forms of argument. Rather than trying to argue back, you threw a hissy fit and derailed the argument yourself by accusing the other guy of derailing.

The Revolution, followed by just a series of downfalls directly related to it.

First was after the revolution, Haiti was absolutely fearful that the French would come back for retribution, so they exhausted national resources building a network of fortifications that fell to disuse after no invasion happened.

During which, the entire Imperial world refused to trade or recognize haiti as they feared it would give legitimacy to a slave revolt state. The haitians tried to offset this by occupying the neighboring Dominican Republic for 20 years before they were forced back.

The French eventually did return, and offered to recognize Haiti in exchange for paying a massive debt as reimbursement for the lost colonial revenue. Haiti was in no position to refuse as French ships of the line were in Port-au-Prince ready to open fire, so they accepted.

After that it was just one uneducated leader, military coup, and economic disaster after another. Haiti never had the political clout to bargain for much of anything due to their inept leaders and corrupt military governments.

The Duvailer family did have some influence on the world stage, levering the US for favors in exchange for helping to stamp out Communists in the Caribbean, but after that there was nothing.

Poor resource management ruined Haiti's economy, the stigma of producing sugar tied to slavery meant no one was going back to the sugar fields to drive the economy, so Haiti plummeted to a status beyond saving. The Earthquake was just icing on the cake to knock it to official Failed State status.

>He
Yeah sure.

He was using a shit analogy to bring rape politics into this when it has nothing to do with anything. The purpose was to try and equate me with some misogynists because leftist have to turn every argument into a moral one y equating anyone that disagrees with them as evil.

And now YOU'RE derailing the thread by droning on about how equating nation building to a rape case is perfectly reasonable and tolerable all because you don't like what I'm saying. Fuck off back to /pol/ or whatever shit place you come from.

Only successful slave revolt in history.

Makes it pretty unique.

But yeah, after they fought off Napoleon's grab at them, they were fucked.

USA wouldn't recognize them because the South didn't want to recognize slaves. Europe said no to colonies revolting.

Kind of hard to have an export driven economy with no exports.

Also shit leaders and French debt and then US occupation in the 20th century...

They also still had race wars between half blacks and all blacks.

>The purpose was to try and equate me with some misogynists because leftist have to turn every argument into a moral one y equating anyone that disagrees with them as evil.
The purpose was to show that your argument made no sense.

But this is exactly what you're doing yourself by calling anyone who disagrees with you a leftist or /pol/.

>the entire Imperial world refused to trade or recognize haiti

Why not trade with the Latin American nations once they freed themselves? They had no love for slavery.

About 20 hours, or a 600 page books worth of shit on Haiti.

revolutionspodcast.com/

Not that I think Veeky Forums will listen. "niggers lol" is a way easier explanation for plebs.

>The purpose was to show that your argument made no sense.
No, the purpose was to derail the thread with nonsense about rape because he's an idiot that equates nation building to rape.

>you're doing yourself by calling anyone who disagrees with you a leftist or /pol/.
I'm calling him a leftist because of his tactics.

>They had no love for slavery
U wot.

Fucker you know what I god damn mean.

No I don't.

With a noticeable exception of Brazil there was a general tendency in Latin America to not import slaves from Africa or otherwise engage in the wholesale slave trade with Africa so a bunch of rebellious slaves wouldn't have been an enormous issue with the majority of them.

Is that satisfactory you teen cunt? Can you go look for an ego boost somewhere else? Maybe find some other inadequately specified post you can nitpick so you can feel like you've challenged yourself with something today?

I'm trying to find out if there was a reason they didn't trade with nations like Mexico that reached full independence in 1821 and was anti-slavery. That's fucking all. But you want to show off on some pointless bullshit to feel special today.

Srsly, get a fucking life user.

Shit.

The guy was talking about the period before they gained French recognition in 1825 and slavery wasn't abolished in most of Latin America until after that, so I didn't really get what you meant by them 'having no love fro slavery'.

>Is that satisfactory you teen cunt? Can you go look for an ego boost somewhere else? Maybe find some other inadequately specified post you can nitpick so you can feel like you've challenged yourself with something today?
>I'm trying to find out if there was a reason they didn't trade with nations like Mexico that reached full independence in 1821 and was anti-slavery. That's fucking all. But you want to show off on some pointless bullshit to feel special today.
>Srsly, get a fucking life user.
>Shit.
Had a bad day, user?

>The guy was talking about the period before they gained French recognition in 1825 and slavery wasn't abolished in most of Latin America until after that, so I didn't really get what you meant by them 'having no love fro slavery'.
Thank you.
>Had a bad day, user?
Yes, actually, I don't feel like arguing about pointless shit and just want my query resolved.

listening to it now

whats with all the appeals to emotion? literally just bait and nothing more

They never killed all whites.

youtube.com/watch?v=aQ4dA6kZsEs
perfectly explained

see:
22 minutes into it and it seems pretty good.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

It never had a chance. From being ruled by military dictators to literal monarchs, to living on a small island whose only valuable resources were cash crops, to 98% of the people being exslaves who just wanted to own their own homesteads, Haitian society was never destined for anything but failure.

Some were left alone you know.
Not saying it didn't happen

>It never had a chance.
If it hadn't agreed to the French demands for recognition it could have restructured its economy, been more politically stable, and wouldn't have operated under crushing debt during its formative years.

That president was just a stupid fucking idiot.

But if that were true the /pol/ universal "niggers r dum lol" theory of history wouldn't be correct

>having denbts turns your land into salt

>During February and March, Dessalines traveled among the cities of Haiti to assure himself that his orders were carried out. Despite his orders, the massacres were often not carried out until he actually visited the cities himself.[12]

>The course of the massacre showed an almost identical pattern in every city he visited. Before his arrival, there were only a few killings, despite his orders.[18] When Dessalines arrived, he first spoke about the atrocities committed by former white authorities, such as Rochambeau and Leclerc, after which he demanded that his orders about mass killings of the area's white population should be put in effect. Reportedly, he ordered also the unwilling to take part in the killings, especially men of mixed race, so that the blame should not be placed solely on the black population.[19][20] Mass killings then took place on the streets and on places outside the cities. In parallel to the killings, plundering and rape also occurred.[20]

>Women and children were generally killed last. White women were "often raped or pushed into forced marriages under threat of death".[20]

>Dessalines did not specifically mention that the white women should be killed, and the soldiers were reportedly somewhat hesitant to do so. In the end, however, they were also put to death, though normally at a later stage of the massacre than the adult males.[18] The argument for killing the women was that whites would not truly be eradicated if the white women were spared to give birth to new Frenchmen.[21]

Read guns germs and steel haiti has poor soil and no domesticateable animals

Are you trying to be funny?

That doesn't change the fact that it's true: Haiti's current state has more to do with historical and environmental circumstance than some farcical lack of "will". That's a plain observable fact.

I'm really fucking tired of this meme.

>big mean ole user forced it on them!!
>they're just big meanies!
>poor little guys!
>abloo bloo bloo

You can only get shit forced on you becuse you have no political clout, your brain is shitty, and your planning, preparation and determination all blowed.

It's your fault and your fault alone you got accused of being a rape apologist.

I smiled a bit

From everything I read about it, the people of post revolution Haiti were mostly concerned with just farming wheat to feed themselves, which was worth fuck all it revenue to the government, who needed all the money the can scrounge up just to pay for basic buerocracy, and this is assuming it ran perfectly and had no corruption problems at all.

I don't see how such a small nation could have thrived in such an environment.

That's not really how basic human interaction works if you're not a retarded sociopath.

>Punta Cana
How did those prostitutes treat you?

>Haitans genocide the whites
>The evil french are just being petty
Kill yourself
mad/10

That is not even close to what the other poster was saying. You're trying to discredit a valid observation by regurgitating cookie-cutter rightist propaganda. We all know it.

Are you really implying "niggers" aren't dumb? What is the evidence for this claim?

This isn't basic human interaction this is international relations. Everyone is trying to exploit everyone else as far as politics deems able, those that don't are the ones getting exploited.

Crimes don't stop being crimes because of the circumstance of the victim. Your greentext memes will not persuade anyone otherwise.

>racism is rightwing
of all the dumb shit I hear on Veeky Forums

That's not what I'm hearing on the podcast, they seemed to have two sources of revenue early on, initially they stuck to the plantation system and then in the south of the country they were taxing based on trade in the ports and the US seems to have lifted their embargo in 1810 and the two had begun trading.

Crimes do however do stop being crimes when there's no law against it.

Not to mention being near a super power that can pretty mych project it's influence to dominate you jsut liek every other carrib/central American state.

This is exemplified when America invaded Haiti because it was scared of it losing influence on the nation to other European investors.

Leftists think racism can only be applied to blacks since blacks and other minorities can't be racist

It does.

Agriculture, like all important factors of a civilization, is directly correlated with capital. A bad agricultural system will prevent the production of food and harm the food economy. Poor economic conditions will result in less resources for farming (such as those needed to prevent desertification or poor topsoil).

What "crime" exactly do you think was committed?

That argument is perfectly valid when applied to the regions that are actually discussed in that book. No one in this thread has tried to use them here. You're attempting to satirize an argument which doesn't exist. Everything you wrote was pointless.

>Dr. William L. Pierce

>blowed

>That argument is perfectly valid when applied to the regions that are actually discussed in that book
No not really.

Because niggers lost any sense of it really meaning anything useful ages ago.

Some are, some aren't. Look at this nigger, he ain't that dumb (smarter than you at least).

Niggers fail regardless if they have good land and domesticated animals or not.

Jaredcucks literally on suicide watch

>literally half white
>even then he's just a shitty pop scientist

Prostitutes? I never left the resort and was barely 16 at the time in 2005 when I went there. Though there were a lot of slutty European girls also there, I nearly got raped by a German guy.

That has literally nothing to do with the argument. You're just reaching for a subject where you can most easily make fun of leftists.

You aren't even responding to the post you're replying to, for fuck's sake. Try harder.

He's the black version of Bill Nye.

Just repeating the same key phrases and inserting "literally" like the teenager you obviously are isn't going to win you any arguments, pol.

ok