So, I was playing some CoD: World at War when I wondered how often it was that soldiers would pick up a dead enemy's weapon after running out of ammo. Was it rare? Did it ever really happen at all on a level worth documenting? I'm thinking WW2 here but if there's interesting data on other wars then I'd be okay with that too.
Pic unrelated.
Outside of battles that occurred in areas where one side was incapable of resupply, not really. You saw it semi-often during parachute jumps during WWII and on the Eastern Front on occasion, but that's about it.
Outside of small arms. The Germans used anything they could get their hands on. French tanks like Renault R35 used for training, captured t-34, captured b-17s, and P-51s.
I'd imagine the sounds from the different firearms allows your side to more easily distinguish friend from foe.
Kind of like how you wouldn't pick up an enemy shield on the battlefield unless you really had to.
I've heard that American soldiers during the Vietnam war used to pick up enemy AK47's because M16's were basically shit-tier (e.g. prone to jam) back then.
Because AK's had a distinct sound, American soldiers were sometimes killed by friendly fire from soldiers who fired their weapons to anything remotely sounding like an AK.
I can't cite any sources though. Maybe someone can confirm / debunk this.
Extremely uncommon outside of SOG units, but it did happen.
Actually using them? For the mostpart no, unless they are logistically cut off. Replacement parts, ammunition, cleaning supplies, spare magazines etc generally cannot be supplied via your logistical train, meaning that you would have to rely on capture in order to keep shooting.
A notable exception would be the PPSh-41, where the Germans were capturing in large number, and were producing the 7.63x25 mauser to supply their troops ammunition.
Otherwise, they were mostly captured and brought back as war trophies. Fun fact, until the Vietnam era, you could send any weapon you want back as spoils of war. Hell, after WWI, soldiers refused to turn in their rifles, seeing it as pay for their service and taking them home.
The Germans captured large numbers of Soviet PPSh submachine guns during WWII. Some of those were converted to 9mm Parabellum while others were supplied with 7.63 Mauser ammunition which was compatible with the unconverted guns.
>tfw my grandad threw 2 MP-40s and an STG into the fucking Atlantic ocean
>and an STG
well, tell him to go back and get them.
Good way to blow yourself up with a booby trap
Or shot by an officer
>Or shot by an officer
What sort of officer would shoot you for grabbing some discarded goods?
Yeah that is one important point. Most countries, but mainly Germany, used captured field guns and vehicles for both training, and combat. The Germans especially would surprise Russian soldiers by driving up to an unsurprising Soviet company and opening fire.
I recall reading a journal entry from a Black Fleet Marine who wrote about how his company was eating lunch in the steppes, and when they saw a T-26 on the horizon they assumed it was one of theirs so they didn't pay it much attention. Then it got close and began to cut them down with machine gun fire and dozens of men died before they could get close enough to destroy it.
Yeah weapon swapping did happen with more advanced weapons like the STG-44 and PPSH, but most weapons commandeered from the battlefield were for trophy purposes. If an enemy unit caught you with a souvenir they would've probably executed you.
>If an enemy unit caught you with a souvenir they would've probably executed you.
You mean a souvernir as in some personal belonging taken from a dead enemy soldier?
Yeah, a Japanese good-luck flag, a German Hitler-Youth Knife, an American article of clothing, etc.. If they recognized it as of their army and had reason to believe you killed for it, you were likely going to be executed.
Germans had a tendency to snatch Russian weapons due to supply issues. They favored ppsh-41s for reliability.
during stalingrad the russians would take all the ammo and weapons they could from the dead (germans probably did it to towards the end when they where encircled)
probably happend alot of times during the pacific campaing to when soldiers where tasked with defending bunkers and where cut of from supplies
Peleliu
The fortress at the end of the southern landing beaches (a.k.a. “The Point”) continued to cause heavy casualties due to enfilading fire from heavy machine guns and anti-tank artillery across the landing beaches. Puller ordered Captain George P. Hunt, commander of K Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, to capture the position. He approached The Point short on supplies, having lost most of his machine guns while approaching the beaches. Hunt's second platoon was pinned down for nearly a day in an anti-tank trench between fortifications. The rest of his company was endangered when the Japanese cut a hole in their line, surrounding his company and leaving his right flank cut off.[1]:49
However, a rifle platoon began knocking out the Japanese gun positions one by one. Using smoke grenades for cover, they swept through each hole, destroying the positions with rifle grenades and close-quarters combat.
K Company had captured The Point, but Nakagawa counterattacked. The next 30 hours saw four major counterattacks against a sole company, critically low on supplies, out of water, and surrounded. The Marines soon had to resort to hand-to-hand combat and attrition warfare to fend off the Japanese attackers. By the time reinforcements arrived, the company had successfully repulsed all Japanese but had been reduced to 18 men, suffering 157 casualties during the battle for The Point.[1]:50–51 Hunt and Hahn were both awarded the Navy Cross for their actions.
Story related, i bet they picked up enemy weapons when ever they could, i mean when your out of ammo you dont go gee thats a japanese gun i cant use that!
What about during napoleonic times?
My best friend was in Afghanistan and he got a silver star. One of the things he was cited for was running out of ammo and procuring an enemy weapon to continue fighting with.
another example still peleliu
One particularly bloody battle on Bloody Nose Ridge came when the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines—under the command of Major Raymond Davis—attacked Hill 100. Over six days of fighting, the battalion suffered 71% casualties. Captain Everett Pope and his company penetrated deep into the ridges, leading his remaining 90 men to seize what he thought was Hill 100. It took a day's fighting to reach what he thought was the crest of the hill, which was in fact another ridge, occupied by more Japanese defenders.
Trapped at the base of the ridge, Pope set up a small defense perimeter, which was attacked relentlessly by the Japanese throughout the night. The Marines soon ran out of ammunition, and had to fight the attackers with knives and fists, even resorting to throwing coral rock and empty ammunition boxes at the Japanese. Pope and his men managed to hold out until dawn came, which brought on more deadly fire. When they evacuated the position, only nine men remained. Pope later received the Medal of Honor for the action.
Why did he get the medal of honor? A pathfinding error made by Pope cost all but 9 of his men their lives..
Dont ask me
i would say it migth have been because he made it out with 9 men alive, when you are figthing the enemy with rocks and boxes making it out alive is pretty impressive feat
Even if it is your fault that you got into the conundrum in the first place.. Whoops!
ITT: kiddies and shut-ins who have never been anywhere near a battlefield.
Former Marine here. I don't think you understand just how rare it is to actually run out of ammo in combat. War is not like the movies. You aren't constantly running around, spraying bullets everywhere and reloading every five seconds.
Your average firefight lasts for 10-30 minutes, during which most people are firing on semi-auto, taking pot shots when the opportunity arises (meaning when you think you have a clear shot).
The only people doing "suppressing fire" are the automatic riflemen, and again, it's not constant shooting.
You usually go into combat with about 5-6 full mags. Rarely did I ever have to go through more than 3.
In WWII, it was more common because you had a lot of close combat, your supply lines were doubtful, and in the case of paratroopers, you probably lost your fuckin gun in the first place. But even then, you'd be a fucking idiot if you ditched your service rifle for some enemy POS when in reality you'll only be in a serious firefight maybe once during the course of the entire battle, and you won't be shooting enough to seriously deplete your ammunition.
i dont think it was as much a pathfinding error as it was a undersestimation of where it ended
i mean we are talking about a fucking mountain here, even if its regarded to as a hill
also can you not be honorable and make mistakes? he dident get the medal of smart decisions he got the medal of honor
whoops forgot to link
Well sorry to rain on your parade but i dont think anyone in this thread belives it is common to run out of ammo within a couple of minutes and soldiers are running around left and rigth picking up what ever gun they can find, hipfiring it till its empty and then running to the next gun
actually i dont think anyone in this thread even implied as much
anyways thanks for your service i hope you realise you where figthing for the military industrial complex and what ever company gets to rebuild the infrastructure in the wartorn shithole that is the middle east oh and oil
well actually thats wrong you where most likely figthing for your brothers in arns
>he fell for the war for oil meme
The Iraqi government gave all the oil contracts to Chinese companies.
The reason we invaded Iraq is because Bush was afraid that Saddam was going to break out of the international sanctions regime and start fucking with the neighbors again.
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>the reason we invaded iraq
like murica hasent been at the very minimum bombing all of the middle east and parts of africa for the past decades
>he fell for the war for oil meme
well boiling down all the policies and reasoning that lead to the war on terror down to OIL is pretty fucking stupid but yes it played a part
>The reason we invaded Iraq is because Bush was afraid that Saddam was going to break out of the international sanctions regime and start fucking with the neighbors again.
You mean we did it for our "buddies" in Riyadh and Tel Aviv.
Edgy bro, you get that opinion from reddit? Bernie Sanders 2016!
Probably because it acted as a pinning action for Hill 100. Japs couldn't reinforce with those Marines in the way.
That's covered under "fucking with the neighbors."
Although we care significantly more about the hydrocarbons than the lovely people.
The military is told to NEVER pick up an enemy rifle unless it is literally the last resort. Pretty much what you said about friendly fire. That, and certain weapons might be rigged to explode when touched. It might sound a bit far fetched, but rigged weapons actually killed a good number of brave men.
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>Former Marine here. I don't think you understand just how rare it is to actually run out of ammo in combat. War is not like the movies. You aren't constantly running around, spraying bullets everywhere and reloading every five seconds.
I'm not a combat veteran, but do you think would it be reasonable to use your experience Iraq/Afghanistan to analyze Iwo Jima or Stalingrad? I'm really not shitting on you, just curious.
Very rare. Almost always an emergency.
For one thing...you are issued that weapon.
For another, you carried ammo for your gun alone. Who knows what caliber your enemy's gun has.
Though during Iran Iraq Wars and Sino-Vietnamese Border Skirmishes, both sides frequently stole each other's weapon largely because they had the same calibers.
During the winter war it happened, finns would take the russian recievers and other weapons such as the svt 40 as they used the same ammunition
The Germans extensively used the PPSha-41, while the Soviet troops grabbed the MP-40s. An SMG is just so much more useful in CQC than a bolt-action rifle.
*posts fedora meme and ignores content of post*
>*posts fedora meme and ignores content of post*