>The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
-Nostra aetate
>But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. -Lumen gentium
You Catholicbros should leave that funk and come to the Orthodox Church.
This is what our Lamentation service (Friday Night after the Crucifixion, in the dark, with candles) sounds like: youtube.com/watch?v=yeP70fSe3Io
>aerial tollbooths >"Muh Anglo-Saxon Orthodox" >"unleavened bread was started by Jews in Charlemagne's court" >constant Russia circlejerking and anti-Western rhetoric
Yeah, no thanks, lad.
Thomas Nelson
No crusades. We're all on our own paths to God nao.
Carter Thomas
Augustine believed humanity was a few thousand years old and pulled original sin out of thin air thanks to a shitty translation of Romans.
Jayden Cook
Sounds like shit.
Why is Orthodox Christianity so unaesthetic and just plain ugly?
The Orthodox conception of hell is very different from the Catholic >For those who love the Lord, His Presence will be infinite joy, paradise and eternal life. For those who hate the Lord, the same Presence will be infinite torture, hell and eternal death. The reality for both the saved and the damned will be exactly the same when Christ “comes in glory, and all angels with Him oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/spirituality/the-kingdom-of-heaven/heaven-and-hell
Ryder Parker
As far as I know, you Orthodox are supposed to venerate and respect Augustine as well, but that's none of my business. In fact, you guys *are* supposed to believe in original sin. Of course, you believe that not everyone bears the guilt of it, but you do believe in it, so if you're denying it you're a heretic even by your own standards, but then again what can I expect from a person who follows a religion whose doctrine is based on the liturgy, not the other way around.
The fact of the matter is that western converts to Orthodoxy are pretty much all cossack LARPers who unironically think the Russian Empire was the best thing ever.
Gavin Bell
Two words:
>aerial >tollhouses
Jacob Hughes
It is way more aesthetic.
Compare to the comical garb the Catholics wear and the ill fitting american suits of the protestants. Music isn't even a competition.
Levi Campbell
>more aesthetic yeah the aesthetic of satan. dudes look like pagan warlocks of the highest order.
Cooper Adams
Orthodox understand original sin differently. Mankind inherits a propensity for sin, but not the guilt of Adam's sin
Camden Smith
We venerate Augustine as a saint, that doesn't mean we agree with his theology
"Our Lord Jesus Christ was both God and man. According as He was God, He had not a mother; according as He was man, He had." [Tractate 8 on the Gospel of John]
Saint Augustine said this, does it sound right to you?
Kayden Lewis
They're a theolougmenon, not an Orthodox doctrine
Juan Jones
In what way is that incorrect? If you're suggesting Mary is responsible for birthing the Logos, you're insane.
Liam Ward
sounds like some mediocre arabic chanting and some slavshit cumguzzling.
top kek
is that supposed to shitty Warcraft cosplay?
James Ward
>in what way is Nestorianism incorrect
Mary literally did beget the Logos, by the way. The Logos became flesh, and Mary begot him. What do you think Theotokos means? God-begettor.
Chase Sullivan
ITT: Catholics and Orthodox argue about which knows less about salvation.
Arks are sanctified vessels for the Covenants of God.
Jesus is the New and final Covenant.
Mary was the vessel of that Covenant.
Mary is the Ark of the Covenant, the Mother of God, the Immaculata, the Sanctissima, the Piissima, the Mater Amata Intemerata. Ora, Ora pro nobis, Dulcis Virgo Maria, nunc et in hóra mórtis nóstrae! Amen.
Justin Thompson
>accuse temple jews of idolatry >but its okay when i do it
RETURN TO THE AD ORIENTAM ALTER LAYOUT GUYS! ITS WHAT MOTHER ANGELICA (Requiescat in Pace) WOULD WANT!
Ryder Martin
Hey, I never said that Orthodox music was bad. I love the musical tradition of our Eastern brethren. I just hate it when some Orthodox insult the Western tradition.
I regretfully inform you that my church uses mass settings as the one linked, as well as Gregorian chants every Sunday at our Solemn High Tridentine Liturgy. We also use traditional Anglican hymns too, since they are quite aesthetically pleasing. Please direct all complaints to His Holiness Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.
Ryan Hernandez
She still gave birth to him, unless you are saying the flesh she gave birth to and was referred to as the mother of, is not the Logos
No, he did, he was just begotten of the flesh by Mary
Western Rite Orthodox will continue to grow
Brandon Bailey
>I just hate it when some Orthodox insult the Western tradition. They seem to do this all the time. By far the most insecure sect there is.
Tyler Lee
"Western Rite Orthodox" is a silly joke that barely exists. You lot cite it all the time, but when push comes to shove, you would rather discard it altogether, since everything Western must be tainted in your perverted worldview. Not very Catholic of you, to be honest.
Lincoln Ortiz
Oh no doubt, but at least they have valid sacraments, I suppose.
Nolan Cook
>We also use traditional Anglican hymns too, since they are quite aesthetically pleasing That's not what the criterion of hymnology is about. It's about whether the hymns express dogma and convey both fear and love. There is a right kind of aesthetic, and a wrong kind for Church, Paintings with dimension are also very aesthetically pleasing, but wrong for Church
Andrew Long
Being begotten in flesh form does not entail that the Logos has a "mother", especially if you agree that the Logos has existed for all time and beyond.
James Rodriguez
Western Rite prior to the schism is 100% Orthodox
Kevin Bell
>Paintings with dimension are also very aesthetically pleasing, but wrong for Church You claim this as if orthodox iconography even had rules pre-Iconoclasm.
Andrew Anderson
Mary is referred to as the Mother of the Lord in Luke 1:43. Does that refer to the flesh Mary gave birth to? And is that flesh the Logos?
Ian Jones
Listen to these lyrics and tell me that they don't convey all of that:
If it didn't, then explain how the Oriental Orthodox, who never went through the iconoclast tribulations, follow the same rules as Eastern Orthodox despite having different artistic styles
Jason Hughes
I don't just mean the lyrics, I mean the music itself. And no, it doesn't
No, they weren't idolatrous, they worshiped the Presense within the Ark as glorified the Ark itself as the vessel of God's Covenant. They didn't actually believe the shiny box was magic and sentient on its own. Likewise Mary is only the great intercessor, "Ora pro nobis," "pray for us." She only has amazing PR in the realm of prayer and salvation, along with pissing off Satan by being his antithesis is every regard, what with her Fiat to the Most High versus his Non Serviam.
Why do the scruples of the iconoclast matter when they clearly lack any knowledge on what they talk about. Your zeal for scruples of avoiding damn near EVERYTHING because your heretic sects' founders muckraked virtually everything Catholic by tossing away all tradition and reason so they could find flimsy justification for all your qualms. It's the kind of reason that caused the retarded JWs to outlaw blood transfusion as "consuming blood."
You cry out with "looks like a duck" reasoning. But the issue is that base appearance means Jack Shit. Considering how many ducks whistle instead of quack, your logic for what is idolatry, cannibalism and necromancy renders grebes, coots and looks as ducks and swans as being a kind of goose. And further more, with how assanine your whining about fossils and the bible is, why don't you argue that bats are birds? That's what the bible said after all, bats are birds!
Owen Reyes
Why do you guys always feel the need to shit all over everyone else's traditions? You make music into doctrine.
Joshua Foster
No, we don't do that. We love Western tradition and that is why we are working on reviving it in the Church. Romanesque art is great for Church. We just don't like modernist stuff that is more about aesthetics that conveying the purest possible worship
We like Coptic traditions, for example, even though they are not technically in communion with us and haven't been since even before the Catholic schism
Daniel Taylor
Our Lord is fully human as though He were not God.
Owen Barnes
Music, by the way, is supposed to be an expression of dogma. Dogma is something lived and experienced, music pronounced it with both lyrics and the feelings. The feeling conveyed by music is the dogmatic feeling for worship. Dogma can be written about, but dogma itself is spiritual and is lived in worship, not by memorizing
Anthony Ortiz
And his flesh is fully Logos
Charles Gutierrez
The notion that Mary had to be special in order to give birth to Jesus is absurd. Anyone in the line of David, female, virgin, would suffice.
Mason Perry
Metal as fuck tho.
Zachary Cruz
So you understand neither the Old nor New Covenant, as the shekinah was literally God residing on the top of the ark of the covenant.
Throwing away everything Catholic means that nothing of value was lost. To say otherwise is to say that some evil is useful.
Dylan Edwards
As I said, He came down from heaven to be born.
He did not start as sperm meets egg. Saying Mary is the mother of God infers that Mary had a part in the creation of God.
Which is fucking absurd.
Adrian Lewis
I should add that I don't see anything wrong with modernist Western music in general, just when used in Liturgy
No, I'm pretty sure God doesn't hand out a task so sacred like crack jack prizes
Sebastian Jones
What was Mary the Mother of, the Lord she was the Mother of? Is it Christ's flesh? If so, then she is the Mother of the Logos
It doesn't infer that at all. God the Father, for instance, is referred to as Father of Christ, yet he did not create him
I like good music, and ancient hymns like Pange Lingua Gloriosi are good. "Gather Us In," however, is pretty crap "feel good" Christian "music."
I want my Holy Mass to be solemn and bear witness to the Holy Presence of God and the Sactified. The Reverence of the Sacred. Ancient Rituals continued through time for the Glory of The Name. But Protestantism lacks all ritual, all sanctification of the holy space for God to come and dwell. This is why Megachurches come with fervor and zeal, but quickly dies out as people just stop caring. They just praise God with basic truths as though that's all that is needed. No study, exegesis or philosophy, just bright colors and fun. If holy ritual is pagan, then we should persue holy ritual. As to quote Lewis:
'First let us make the younger generation good pagans and afterwards let us make them Christians.'
Jayden Lopez
If God can't enter the earthly realm without fucking everything up(I'm referring to sinai), how does inseminating Mary not cause extreme phenomenon?
Bentley Lewis
In heaven are the trinity manifested as one person Or are they all there individually?
Ayden Nguyen
>I think I know exegesis >I think my theology is wholly origins and not just bastardized Catholicism
Also look! God residing in the arms of the Ark of the Covenant! Just as God resided on the top of the Ark of the Covenant!
Jack Foster
Any young virgin Jewish girl descending from David would have suited Him just fine. If you're trying to make the argument that none other were available, for reasons, that's fine.
To say Mary was "special" requires someone whose education was "special" as well.
Robert Brooks
"This is my beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased."
>Guyz! Let's worship Mary instead!
Kayden Richardson
>Semen was involved.
What is wrong with you?
Luke Scott
My Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, if there be any iota of anything Catholic within me, burn it out with the holy fire of your wrath.
I pray this in Jesus' name.
Jaxon Sanchez
Hmmmmm, not even a trickle of heat from the Father.
Austin Wright
Mary was Immaculate. Pure and undefined by Sin. The New Eve, Mother of all the Living.
THAT is what made her Special, sinlessness.
Mason Cruz
Not literally inseminating
Julian Cooper
who are you to say semen wasn't involved? did you check her womb?
Bentley Turner
That sounds pretty terrible all around. Would keep worshiping Wodan/10
Kayden Butler
>You Catholicbros should leave that funk and come to the Orthodox Church.
This post is a perfect example of Orthodox willing deception. This point was brought up and defeated in
However this poster just ignored this and then went on to make a new thread. They literally argue in the manner Hitler talks of:
The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The [Orthodox Poster] had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.
Asher Thomas
lmao holy shit that's Constantine to a fucking T
Brandon Campbell
Every structure of your faith is Catholic in some way. The only way to fix it is to completely scrap Christianity as it is known today and start fresh. Create your own Biblical Canon. Too many books are left over from the Catholic Canon. You use the 4 canon Gospels like Catholics. To be truly unCatholic, you must toss those out and use different gospels. And the concept of the Trinity? Catholic. Must toss that away too. And your hymns? Lots of Catholic beliefs in there too. Stained glass in a Protestant Church? Catholics have that! We must destroy the stained glass! Crosses? Well, can't have that, Catholics have crosses too!
Everything you believe is in some way Catholic. Any impartial scholar will attest to that. You were born from Wester Tradition, and in it you shall always be. Tu Fui, Ego Eris.
Gavin Wright
What part of "MYSTERY of the Incarnation" don't you get?
Benjamin Nguyen
And yet, when we rightfully say you idolize her, and literally pray to her. you back down.
Luis Rogers
they're just as lost as you people are
left leg
right leg
thousand years each
Ian Harris
Not in any way, actually. I'm a born again Christian, not a Babylonian Queen of Heaven worshiper.
Learn your origins.
They go back to the Tower of Babel; to Nimrod and Semiramis; to Tammuz.
Everything you do, they did.
Josiah Gray
>This level of autism
Jordan Clark
I wish I could travel forward in time and see the look on Constantine's face when East and West reunite with full acknowledgment of the supremacy of the Pope.
First Church, True Church, Best Church. As it has been and so shall be.
Jayden Moore
Autism is correlated with atheists, actually. Empathy lacking psychopaths.
Like most posters here.
Zachary Barnes
She is essentially a saint. The Orthodox have saints, too, and they function the same way. We pray that she will pray for us. Our faith in her is a faith that Christ works through her.
Brandon Smith
Daniel 2 This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.
Head of Gold: Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon empire. Chest of Silver (2 arms): Medeo-Persian empire. Belly and thighs of Bronze: Alexander's Greece. Legs (2) of iron: Rome and Constantinople; two legs on the same statue. Feet: 10 kingdom coalition, iron and broken potter, which is the empire of the antichrist.
And the Rock that is Jesus smashes them all, and they are all forgotten.
Robert Cruz
I hope you get to see your precious pope bodily thrown by Jesus into the lake of fire, along with the Antichrist.
Ian Young
And your saints are essentially idols.
John Gonzalez
Orthodox Church (One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church) will never unite with self-proclaimed "Catholic" Church until they denounce their heresy and return to the old ways.
Justin Ortiz
No, they are holy men and women whose lives were lived in imitation of Christ, and therefore Christ works through them.
The Church generally teaches us that Jesus is big on intermediaries. The saints, the angels, the clergy, the religious brothers and sisters. Christ likes to work through people, through us. We are the vessels of his love, his mercy, and his power.
Why? No one quite knows. I suspect part of it is that, in making us the ones that have to carry out his will, Christ tries to lift us up. In doing Christ's bidding we become more like Christ, and so become closer to salvation.
Jaxon Brooks
>theology is a joke >ugly art >idolatry >continuously cucked by secular emperors and tsars >cyka blyat Russia circlejerking Why would anyone in their right mind who isn't a slav be an orthodoxboo? Is it just remove kebab memes?
Wyatt Hill
>Not in any way, actually. I'm a born again Christian, not a Babylonian Queen of Heaven worshiper. >Learn your origins. >They go back to the Tower of Babel; to Nimrod and Semiramis; to Tammuz. >Everything you do, they did. >[citation needed]
No credible archeoligist will EVER back you up on any of that.
And if "similarity in title" is all you're going on, then you are a pagan like the ancient Chinese who worshiped the Jade Emperor as the King of Heaven. Would you call Jesus the Heavenly Sovereign? Well hello Mr. Shintoist, because that's the title currently held by Akihito, Emperor of Japan.
Your ideas of history are as accurate as Ryse: Son of Rome, which depicts Boudica as being the daughter of some guy they made up and later is seen laying seige to Rome with her own army of war elephants.
Even if "born-again" is theologically sound in the Holy Mother Church, I will always loathe it as a term because of you and your kind who cry out "Jesus loves EVERYONE! Except you! He will make a blood eagle out of your soul at the Rapture."
And learn YOUR origins, there is no possible way for your faith to be 200% free of any "pagan Catholic taintings."
Also, Semiramis was wife to Ninus, King of Assyria. She had no connection to Babylon. Hell, Babylon itself wouldn't be anything noteworthy biblically if it hadn't done that whole "Jewish Exile" thing. In fact, if that never happened, Jews of 21 AD would've called Rome "Egypt."
Hilsop was a hack who picked and chose his own idea of what the ancients believed to support his goal of trying to defraud the Church. He was a hack that any credible scholar will laugh at.
t. An actual historian
Kayden Brown
Because it's a true Christianity, opposed to the bunch of pedophile thieves that you're peddling as a Church
Nolan Jackson
Please fuck off to /pol/.
Lincoln Ross
>theology is a joke Meme >ugly art Shit taste >idolatry At least it Iconoclasm was somewhat popular, contrary to Catholicism >continuously cucked by secular emperors and tsars As it should be, religious rulers should serve and advise secular rulers, not the other way around >cyka blyat Russia circlejerking Meme
Cameron Adams
no, you fuck off to reddit
Wyatt Gray
>said the reddit- I mean /pol/ack that wants to larp
Cooper Smith
This is supposed to be a humanities board, theology is part of that, but proselytizing is crossing a line. Your no longer talking about religion in an academic sense, your just trying to attract the alt right kids to your bandwagon.
Luke Fisher
>As it should be, religious rulers should serve and advise secular rulers, not the other way around That's retarded, it's all about balance.
Gabriel Ross
Pretty sure that's just describing a statue's composition rather than having some grand meaning beyond "made of precious metals." Also: Considering how Nebby praised the God of Israel after Rack, Shack and Benny survived the furnace, even proscribing grievous bodily harm on those who'd blaspheme the 3's God, I'd say your exegesis on Nebby's statue is BS when much of Nebby's time in the Bible is relatively sympathetic.
Also, some scholars attribute some accounts of Nebby to misapplications of accounts of Nabonidus.
