Who was right?

Jefferson. Hamilton wanted a monarchy disguised as a republic

Hamilton since his version of America is actually what happened. Jefferson couldn't even be consistent with his own ideology when he held power.

America would be an unimportant regional power if Jefferson's version of America had won out.

What's wrong with this? It wouldn't be unjmportant, we just wouldn't be cultural imperialists

Cultural imperialists is all America has wanted to be since we started expanding west

I disagree.

Hamilton.

Jefferson wasn't consistent with his ideas once in power from a historical perspective. Personally, I prefer Hamilton because he was pro-British and recognized the necessity of a strong, centralized Federal government that would help the nation develop over a weak, decentralized Federal government.

Really?

I mean cultural imperialism would have happened anyway as traders (foreign and American) would've slowly cracked open the frontier as they get more and more goods to the Natives. We would have conflicted with them upfront sooner or later since their communal societies wouldn't work with our type of society.

Hamilton was a retard on many levels.

But he's still the superior choice.

Hamilton.

Jefferson had such a hardon for independent farmsteads that it prevented him from realistically approaching many of the problems of government. It was important that we had both views, but it is best that Hamilton's views won out of Jefferson's.

Jefferson. Hamilton was a dirty anglo conspirator

Jefferson is a meme and a fucking fraud and a total hypocrite. Fuck him, fuck him forever. Filthy slave-owning faggot. Not even a SJW but I don't understand how anyone can take Jefferson seriously. He didn't even free his slaves when he died the way Washington did.

>I'm not an SJW
>I get mad that people had slaves in the antebellum period
Shiggy diggy do

Hamilton was a nationalist and true patriot, Jefferson was (literally) treasonous scum who advocated for secession because his autistic brain couldn't handle being wrong.

He advocated for peaceful secession if so came the time to be.
Jefferson was right, federalist scum.

>Jefferson is a meme and a fucking fraud and a total hypocrite.
Jefferson did everything in his power to undermine the stability of the country because MUH NOBLE LIFE OF YEOMANRY. The Kentucky Resolution should've had him hanged for treason.

Kys my man

Everyone who's stupid enough to say "Jefferson was a hypocrite, never freed his slaves. If Jefferson had his way we'd be insignificant" is an idiot who has not read anything
on Jefferson beyond a cursory level. He wanted slavery to be abolished. He thought it would be an issue the next generation of Viriginians would have to address. Whether he said that because he wanted to continue profiting fromslavery or understood the massive logistical nightmare that would be complete emancipation all at once is ambiguous. What is not ambiguous is that he authored the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia statute of religious freedom, not to mention he put his scruples aside on muh elusive republic and fucking doubled the size of the US. And if you're going to do a comparison of Hamiltonian Vs Jeffersonian economic ideology I'd argue that Jefferson's yeoman republic was better suited to the economic conditions facing the US at the time. The upholding of agriculture and land owners was more conducive to US expansion than Hamiltons policies for manufacturing activity. Not to say Hamilton was wrong. I
Just think Hamilton was
Looking ahead which is also good. But goddamn oversimplifications and examining Jefferson through a modern perspective are idiotic

As opposed to a broke pseudo-republic run by special interests and corporations and hated by as many as not?

good post

Hamilton because he's more qt

Jefferson

Hamilton paved the way for the American superpower.

>colonial babbling
>interesting

jefferson was an unreasonable loon

That was actually a pretty good analysis. Good shit user.

Advocating for states to be able to secede from the Union if they don't like laws while you're VP of the Union is pretty fucking treasonous.

Except it isn't.

Hamilton. Jefferson was sort of a detached idealist who didn't really exercise much in the way of conscious adherence to virtue. He cheated on his wife with a slave-woman and for all his talk of Liberty did not free his slaves. He idolized agrarianism but his own farm was unprofitable and the guy didn't know how to manage his money.

Hamilton clearly lived out his ideals. He was prudent and upright and a man of his word. He was so dedicated to principles and honor that it ended up costing him his life. Sure, his ideas may be more practical, maybe even Machiavellian, compared to Jefferson's loftier ideals but I don't put much stock in someone's philosophy if they're bad at sticking to their principles.

The main reason why we don't have a president Hamilton is because he fucked some bitch and he was found out.

Nah, burr was just a cunt.

he probably could've run and won the presidency if he wasn't killed. that sex scandal you mentioned actually played out in hamilton's favor since he came clean immediately and asked for public forgiveness, which could be a lesson to some current politicians *cough*

people today want perfection though, its all a marketing game

Kill yourself

The question is not who was a better man or who actually followed what they said. Get your feels the fuck out of here and put the goalposts back while you're at it.

So much nuance....how will I know what to believe if there's no black or white?!

Hamilton took 6 years to confess to the affair, and only after he was investigated by an investigative reporter by the name of James T. Callender.

Hegel.

This. Never had it described this way but the correlation is perfect.

Jefferson's agrarian society wouldn't have survived the Industrial Revolution. Hamilton had a clear vision of where society was headed. Muh States rights has never been a viable position, and states have always been more oppressive than the big bad national gov.

Jefferson's people became the people liked at the end

Hamilton's model was the one used at the end

American politics is weird

It's hard to take someone at face value that they want to abolish something when they personally profit from it (re:Hillary Clinton and campaign finance). Jefferson did make any real moves towards abolition. Gradualism is a farce championed by people who don't really want to see real change.

The rest of your post is spot on but only reinforces the fact that Hamilton was right in the end. When it came time for Jefferson to be in charge he moved much closer ideologically to Hamilton.

>le smug liberal Democrat face

>muh oppression
>the state caters to the health of the state as a whole and doesn't fulfill every whiney bitch minorities request

No political party is traditionally the states rights party. Whichever is not in power nationally suddenly becomes the states' champion. Had a republican been in the white house when Colorado legalized marijuana and attempted to shut it down, you'd suddenly see muh states rights liberals.

Not appropriate for this thread or this board, /pol/friend.

>"it's just not healthy for our state to recognize you slaves as humans"
>"You're trampling on our rights ATM y'know"

Slaves may be humans, but they are also property.

>people can't have opinions other than mine
>MY SANDBOX
>MY RULES

They both had their merits. The ideal thing would've been for both men to swallow their pride and come to a compromise.

Hamilton was more right than wrong and despite being somewhat elitist with his preference for finance and industry, he wasn't a hypocrite that had sex with his wife's half-sister/slave. I did dislike Hamilton's pro-British views as much as Jefferson's pro-French tendencies.

so feds can do both and states can only do one

yet people say states are more efficient

States are far more efficient.
Feds can do neither without the state's help.

>Hamilton didn't have a sex scandal

>he wasn't a hypocrite that had sex with his wife's half-sister/slave.

Except Hamilton had an extramarital affair and Jefferson didn't.

I agree with everything else you said, though.

Jefferson raped his slaves. Often.

Where are the brooofs?

His black sons.

Jefferson was more likable what with his rhetoric being along the lines of "who's awesome, you're awesome"

Hamilton's was more practical since it allowed the government to run easier and was more compatible with the things that will happen in the future (also it didn't require as much genocide or slavery).

sex scandal=/=having sex with someone you literally consider property.

Maria Reynolds has the ability to say no

>arguing a historical point with "modern morality"
No.

>WE WAS JEFFERSONS AND SHEEEIIT

Hamilton by far. He should be worshipped by Americans. #1 economy by 1900 would not be possible if not for him.

>there wasn't an abolitionist movement at the time
>there weren't moral objections to slavery being discussed at the time

Jefferson extolled freedom yet he had sex with Sally Hemmings, a slave who was also his wife's half-sister. That's what I mean about hypocrisy.

Both were autists, Madison was a happy medium.

he obviously did not believe those freedoms extended to non-white non-citizens. It doesn't make him a hypocrite because you don't understand his positions.

except he'd write about the immorality of slavery. He said slavery was a violation of their human rights, but did nothing to stop it in his own backyard. That's because he was a gradual abolitionist who benefited too much from slavery.

Up until Lincoln's Kentucky debates for governer the topic of slavery and abolitionism were rarely talked about, in the north and never spoken of in the south.
Back before modern/industrial (yellow) Journalism society had the ability b to ignore sensitive topics

>His black sons.

...with Sally Hemmings. No evidence for anyone else. And there is no evidence he raped her, unless you consider having sex with someone you own inherently rape (which is perhaps valid, but not what you meant).

maybe keeping her officialy as a house slave was the easiest way to take care of a family member that was also a lover

what would people say if he just kept a freed slave around the house, think of the neighbours

>Up until Lincoln's Kentucky debates for governer the topic of slavery and abolitionism were rarely talked about, in the north and never spoken of in the south.

That is absolutely not true. It was the single biggest issue of the day.

The non-Jefferson guy in the OP was a noted abolitionist

I prefer Jeffersons way of thinking but it isn't very realistic, for the most part. Without Hamilton the US would never have became the superpower it did.

As I said, the issue of slavery was not a talking topic.
The Kentucky debates were the first time the topic of slavery was debated on a political scale.
Abolitionists were really loud at the time but really, the issues fought in Congress and the stage was never directly about slavery but the expansion or restriction of it in new states

I agree.

I pick Jackson

>the issues fought in Congress and the stage was never directly about slavery but the expansion or restriction of it in new states

And why do you suppose that is? Because a free state majority would... abolish slavery.

He just got lucky with the louisiana purchase though.

Stop being pretentious, you know you can understand the question

If he wasn't her owner she would be sold off to some other slave master.

>rarely talked about, in the north

Weird how it could be abolished in all those states without anyone talking about it.

Wage slavery is more profitable and puts on the guize of choice.
Blacks were just as much slaves in the north as the south.

>Implying Jefferson didn't shape this country through the Louisana Purchase, drafting of the Declaration of Independence, and envoy to France

Nice meme you dip. Also, without Jefferson, Hamilton and Washington would've created a Britain 2.0

Or....he could have set her free?

What is freedom of association

And be a wage slave?

it's still better than literal slavery

Impossible to determine, how do you define "better"?

yes but he came clean when he was exposed instead of continuing to lie.

No consensus on that.