The reliability of the New Testament compared to other ancient texts

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas#Anachronisms
nelsonprice.com/early-secular-writings-regarding-christ/
storage.cloversites.com/fcfgroups/documents/Why We Believe 7.pdf
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Yes, the New Testament was widely printed.

When the second verse of your first book is a misquote of an easily available text though, you don't get to claim it's reliable.

weak bait

ok but you're comparing something religious & theological to theater plays & shit

wait a minute
aren't you rusing me right now? you wouldn't do that, right, OP

They're different texts. Some are historical, others aren't. What don't you understand?

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone is a true story.

I know this because there are many copies of it.

QED

>printed
>1 century AD

Modern world is so degenerate, even trolls lack insidiousness.

>YEARS BETWEEN ORIGINAL & EARLIEST SURVIVING COPIES

For Harry Potter, that's 0 years.

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except a shitload of people base their lifestyle & morals entirely off the NT, they're not just interesting philosophical texts or pieces of art

>All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

2 Timothy 3:16

that's not the point
the point is we have a wider array of sources to compare it to to ensure that the test is reliable and hasn't been changed much over the centuries.

meanwhile we are missing entire sections of some books and have very little evidence for the existence of the people they talk about.

there is less evidence for Socrates than for Jesus

rekt

>there is less evidence for Socrates than for Jesus

but more for Harry Potter, right?

hurr

yes, except these books we are missing entire sections of even though they are importat are not religious, no one is basing their life & choices off what they say

i'm not sure what you're trying to say, that christianity is more sure than most ancient texts we study because its texts are better preserved?
the quran is even better preserved and there is less confusion about who wrote what with what intent, does that mean islam is even more certified than christianity?

What point do you think you're making?

>God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

2 Corinthians 5:21

rekt

How old are you?

first of all, I'd like to see some proof of those numbers.

Also, I'm not sure what your point here is. Are you at all surprised that we have more examples of a text created in a time of relative peace by a very evangelistic cult than we do of philosophers that predate it by several centuries?

>islam
Muhammad was actually visited by a false angel of light, it was a demon, a fallen angel of deception. Satan and his workers are great mimickers and Muhammad, deceived, established a demonic cult of Allah (false-God) called Islam (meaning voluntary submission to this false-God, i.e. Satan) which he spread by the sword convinced that it was the last revelation of God Almighty.

Islam is none other than Satan's magnum opus, which now has 1.6 billion adherents (23% of the world population) and which will probably be followed by half of the world population by 2050.

>For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

rekt

Muhammad was Satan's pawn, merely a man, he was easily deceived.
Jesus is the Christ prophesied in scripture, born of God, undeceivable.

Islam's deceptions are endless:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas#Anachronisms

>Also, I'm not sure what your point here is.

His point is that if you write something down enough times, it becomes true.

stop quoting scripture with no context
what is your point?

(You)
now fuck off

undercooked pasta

>with no context

wow, you are an amazing shitposter

>there is less evidence for Socrates than for Jesus

Except for the fact that all the texts that talk about him corroborate small details of his life and remain consistent between multiple authors, which not even the bible can manage about major details of Jesus.

Jews.

Not even once.

ITT: autists who think Harry Potter is real.

>what
>is
>your
>point?

...

?

Point.

Reasonable amount of space.

Vast amount of space.

Your head.

Yes, the autism is real. And correlates with atheism and a general lack of empathy.

?

...

That this is a shit-tier non-argument.

it manages incredibly well actually for all the major parts of his ministry

the only parts that have issues are those outside of his time as Rabbi

So do you agree that Harry Potter is a real person or not?

>And correlates with atheism and a general lack of empathy
and? autists aren't neccisarily stupid, in fact a lot of them are very smart. why is it bad to have more analytical thinkers be a part of a group?

>in fact a lot of them are very smart
yea far from it

What don't you understand?

Also:
nelsonprice.com/early-secular-writings-regarding-christ/
storage.cloversites.com/fcfgroups/documents/Why We Believe 7.pdf

you obviously don't know anyone autistic. My sister and several of my close friends are autistic. they can be awkward as fuck but they are capable of brilliant shit

I've seen loads of Autisitc people and they are all slobbering morons

>What don't you understand?

A way you can argue "lots of copies = true story" that doesn't also apply to Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.

underrated

it depends on the person. there are lots of them that can't function normally but there are plenty of high functioning ones that despite bad social skills are really good at music, mathematics, etc

This must be bait but did you just realize that you believe what happened around Islam is so difficult you had to ascribe it to something outside of human efforts? Do you really think Satan's big plan was to have people worship one God and believe in all of the prophets you believe? That he woke up one day and said hey it would be great if I had a billion people trying to pray to to God, control their desires and believe in God, the angels and prophets and whatnot.

You might as well say Moses or Abraham or Elisha were inspired by Satan.

>believe in all of the prophets you believe
Yet order to massacre the followers...yeah, no. It's all a ruse.

''hehe come here stupid kuffar, look at this book, impressive isn't it? we even believe in the same prophets! but I have the true last and final revelation from God, now convert and come kill christians with me so we can get 72 virgins hehe''

'no'

Pic related.

Also, their last words:

Jesus Christ:
>"Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Luke 23:34

(said while dying on the cross at Calvary after being betrayed and sentenced to die for no legitimate reason).

Muhammad:
>"May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets."
Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427

(Muhammad had been poisoned years earlier by a Jewish woman whose husband was killed by the Muslims and the poison had slowly worked its effect. He said this while dying in the arms of his wife Aisha.)

Well sir if you truly believe what you just wrote who can do anything for you? That is a very simple view. That ISIS, which obviously doesn't represent Islam, even has other religions around them to persecute and oppress shows how tolerant Islam is in itself and has been historically. Just look how the only non Christian group around in Christian lands until the modern period have been the Jews and how even today in the Muslim world there are a plurality of religions. Lebanon is more than a third Christian, India still has many Hindus despite Muslim rule, Egypt is a tenth Christian, Iraq and Syria before this ISIS debacle had Yazidis, Kurds, Christians and others. Iran had Zoroastrians for a long time and still has a few.

You believe a man is God. A man, flesh and blood who walked in the streets, defecated, ate, slept, cursed a fig tree in anger, cried and whatnot was God in your view. You think God died or if you don't think he died then a man died for our sins which would mean it isn't enough. Muhammad's enemies could never say anything bad about him personally. They trusted him with their things even as they attacked him. Do you not know that? Have you not read how he interacted with people? How people loved him and that even his enemies couldn't say anything negative? Your list is just silly. What isn't exaggerated is a lie, and what isn't a lie is irrelevant.

>it's another religious argument thread on Veeky Forums

>ISIS, which obviously doesn't represent Islam
ISIS members are good muslims.

>You believe a man is God
The humanity of Jesus is as equally important as the deity of Jesus. Jesus was born as a human being while still being totally divine. The concept of the humanity of Jesus co-existing with His deity is difficult for the finite mind of man to comprehend. Nevertheless, Jesus’ nature, wholly man and wholly God, is a biblical fact.

Jesus had to be born as a human being for several reasons. One is outlined in Galatians 4:4–5: “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.” Only a man could be “born under the law.” No animal or angelic being is “under the law.” Only humans are born under the law, and only a human being could redeem other human beings born under the same law. Born under the law of God, all humans are guilty of transgressing that law. Only a perfect human, Jesus Christ, could perfectly keep the law and perfectly fulfill the law, thereby redeeming us from that guilt. Jesus accomplished our redemption on the cross, exchanging our sin for His perfect righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Another reason Jesus had to be fully human is that God established the necessity of the shedding of blood for the remission of sins (Leviticus 17:11; Hebrews 9:22). The blood of animals, although acceptable on a temporary basis as a foreshadowing of the blood of the perfect God-Man, was insufficient for the permanent remission of sin because “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God, sacrificed His human life and shed His human blood to cover the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. If He were not human, this would have been impossible.

Furthermore, the humanity of Jesus enables Him to relate to us in a way the angels or animals never can. “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin” (Hebrews 4:15). Only a human could sympathize with our weaknesses and temptations. In His humanity, Jesus was subjected to all the same kinds of trials that we are, and He is, therefore, able to sympathize with us and to aid us. He was tempted; He was persecuted; He was poor; He was despised; He suffered physical pain; and He endured the sorrows of a lingering and most cruel death. Only a human being could experience these things, and only a human being could fully understand them through experience.

Finally, it was necessary for Jesus to come in the flesh because believing that truth is a prerequisite for salvation. Declaring that Jesus has come in the flesh is the mark of a spirit from God, while the Antichrist and all who follow him will deny it (1 John 4:2–3). Jesus has come in the flesh; He is able to sympathize with our human frailties; His human blood was shed for our sins; and He was fully God and fully Man. These are biblical truths that cannot be denied.

Also, since you are simply biblically illiterate, let me explain to you the Holy Trinity.

This triune God (or Trinity) began to allude to this aspect of His nature right in Genesis 1:26–27. There we read that “God said, ‘Let us make man in our image’ . . . God created man in His image.” Here God is a plural noun, said is in the third-person singular verb form, and we see both the plural pronoun our and the singular His referring to the same thing (God’s image). This is not horribly confused grammar. Rather, we are being taught, in a limited way, that God is a plurality in unity. We can’t say from this verse that He is a trinity, but God progressively reveals more about Himself in later Scriptures to bring us to that conclusion.

In Isaiah 48:12–16 we find the speaker in the passage describing himself as the Creator and yet saying that “the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me.” This is further hinting at the doctrine of the trinity, which becomes very clear in the New Testament. There are many other Old Testament Scriptures that hint at the same idea.

In Matthew 28:18–20 Jesus command His disciples to baptize His followers in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. John’s Gospel tells us that “the Word” is God who became man in Jesus Christ (John 1:1–3, 14). Jesus was fully man and fully God. Many other verses combine together to teach that God is triune.

As a start on a thorough discussion on this topic, the chart in pic related is an accumulation of many of the passages that show the deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Trinity is, in fact, the religion of Paul and not that of Christ, as Jesus never taught the doctrine of the Trinity. As long as he lived, he only taught the Oneness of God and His being without partner. After he died, his James—who was his successor and a holy man— also taught the Oneness of God. But Paul unjustly opposed him and started preaching contrary to his true teachings, and went to the extent of creating a new faith.

>printed

The same tests that indicate autists are of a higher IQ also indicate autists have lower empathy and are less likely to believe in God.

That's not a good trade off.

Yes, satan's big plan is to be worshiped as God.

That's why he lied to Mohammad, and told Mohammad that he is God.

It doesn't always work that way, though. I'm diagnosed autistic and I actually think my 'tism makes me MORE religious, not less. I feel like it spurs me to be a more aggressive, devout believer.

We believe that God became a man so that He could redeem His creation that was ruined by men and angels.

We believe that God cares more about His creation than about His dignity.

what's wrong with that?
btw when it says they have less empathy it means that they have a harder time understanding other people's emotions, not that they are sociopathic

>printing more copies means it's more reliable

Meme logic, as applied to history.

>muh jebus

I'm a born again Christian.

I'm not religious, and I cannot be devout. I can only be a believer.

So when I see things from people like "I'm really super religious, and a devout believer", I see red flags pop up. The Filipinos in Manila who whip themselves bloody and hang from crosses are very religious, and very devout.

And don't understand Jesus at all.

>he only taught the Oneness of God and His being without partner.


>Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

>For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

>I and my Father are one.

Get good.

Muhammad was a gluttonous wealthy slave owner, an adulterer, a child-molesting pedophile, a murderer, a liar, he encouraged theft, rape, torture and the list goes on. He was the pawn of Satan and is now in Hell.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

>Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20

The studies indicate that people lacking empathy share that trait with psychopaths; that autism correlated with both atheism and a lack of empathy.

Read what you replied to.

Oh look it's yet another christard thread. Just so you know faggot, it doesn't actually matter how many copies of the bible you have, bullshit remains bullshit.

You sound like a massive faggot, who the fuck are you to say who does and does not understand?

>uhh they aren't lukewarm like me therefore I' right and they're wrong

please.

You have a mental disorder

yes psychopaths lack empathy, but it's a completely different mental disorder

Paul did not start a religion. Paul was not in the beginning of the early church. Paul was not present with the apostles teaching at Pentecost.

Paul was Saul, and was killing those people who believed in the Way.

So when you say Paul made this up, or Paul made that up, or Paul never met Jesus, you're really just revealing your own personal, baseless bias and ignorance.

I'm a new creation in Christ Jesus, an adopted son of God, joint heir with the Son of God, a priest after the order of Melchizedek, and I will rule and reign with Christ Jesus over this fallen world for a thousand years.

Who are you?

B. T. F. O.

Yes indeed, satanic muslims on suicide watch.

>>nelsonprice.com/early-secular-writings-regarding-christ/

This again? Really?

>>THALLUS: (52 A.D.)
One of the first secular writers that mentioned Christ. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Unfortunately, his writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, a Christian who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus’ account of an eclipse of the sun (Luke 23:44-45).

This is the closest thing you have to secular evidence for the supernatural events in the bible and hey guess what? The text doesn't exist anymore.

>>A secular historian wrote a history named, “Chronicles.” This original work has been lost, Julius Africanus preserved a small fragment in his writings. Phlegon mentions the eclipse (Matthew 27:45) during the crucifixion of Jesus.
“During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.”
Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.

This here? The Julius Africanus who supposedly preserved this passage was a christian apologist. That's not a reliable source chief.

Good fuck you people are dumb as shit.

>many ancient texts are lost
Breaking news

Funny how all the supposed ancient texts that prove the miraculous events of the bible are missing for some reason. You'd think if the catholic and orthodox churches wanted to preserve any given ancient texts, it would be those.

Your beliefs are a matter of faith, not facts, and it's high time you and the rest of your retarded brethren took this /x/ style nonsense back to the board where it belongs.

>many ancient texts are lost despite their importance
Breaking news

Yeah whatever you bible banging dipshit. There's no reason for me or anyone else to believe in your religion other then your say so, that isn't good enough and never will be.

>The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14

>>I have faith and understand the things you who don't have faith cannot understand.

Good for you, now take your faith elsewhere, nobody on Veeky Forums is even remotely interested in it other then /pol/ as a potential justification for nationalism and /x/ because they care more about interesting stories then observable facts. You're certainly not going to convince the freaking history board that supernatural events are real.

>How great are your works, O LORD! Your thoughts are very deep! The stupid man cannot know; the fool cannot understand this.

Psalm 92:5-6

Dude, seriously, you may as well be quoting a comic book at me for all I care. Fiction is fiction and endless quotations of fiction do not make it non-fiction.

See

What part of circular reasoning do you not get? You are using the bible to justify the bible and it just doesn't work for people who aren't already christian.

>Muhammad was a gluttonous wealthy slave owner, an adulterer, a child-molesting pedophile, a murderer, a liar, he encouraged theft, rape, torture and the list goes on. He was the pawn of Satan and is now in Hell.

Not even that guy but those are some wild claims too bad there is nothing to support this,Not to mention your comparison picture is largely composed of hadiths aka fanfiction,there are over hundreds of thousands of hadiths so you can pick any of them to prove whatever you want but fact still remains they're fanfiction,rest is out of context.

>Jesus Christ is THE Son of God.

This is where you just shot yourself in the foot and i can tell you're just some meme christian that probably didn't even read the bible and here is why.

"And thou [Moses] shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born." (Exodus 4:22)

"He [Solomon] shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father and he shall be my son." (II Samuel 7:13-14),

"I am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn"(Jeremiah 31:9)

'long before Jesus was born', "I will declare the decree:the Lord hath said unto me [David], Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee."(Psalm 2:7)

and "Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God"(Luke3: 38).

I'm not even christian but it seems like i know more about your religion than you do.

We're trying to tell you that this 66 book collection is uniquely inspired by God Himself.

Not circular.

God said it, God's not wrong, God's not a liar; God tells the truth; God tells the future.

Quite linear.

Jesus is God's only begotten Son.

Angels are called the sons of God.

Christians are called the sons of God.

Israel is called the cheating whore of a wife of God.

But Jesus is God's only begotten Son.

The Word became flesh.

>I'm not even christian but it seems like i know more about your religion than you do.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Reality: Jesus is God.

Islam: Jesus is not God.

And I'm telling you that this text proves absolutely nothing to anyone who isn't already part of the religion in question. I don't accept the authenticity of many of the historical events supposedly outlined in the bible, let alone the supernatural ones.

Homer is probably the least reliable one there, but apparently he's the second best?

God doesn't exist and no amount of bible quotes makes said god exist.

You don't sound like it.