Did turkey slaughter the armenians?what do you think about this issue

I've never heard anything contrary saying it doesn't exist.

I mean at least holohoaxers try to provide evidence.

Fuck off

Why did the Turks hurt all them Armenians? I thought Armenians were nice?

they rebelled and failed, enver overreacted as fuck

anything that is not "evil barbaric turks killed perfect innocent armenians" is unaccpetable to armenians as it seems, people cant even discuss why it happened, how it happened, events leading up to that etc... its just a bunch of balkan and armenian dudes circlejerking with turk hatred at this point

turkey didnt existed in 1915, ottoman empire did tho.

Obviously not

The only "evidence" is a bunch of doctored photos and forced comfessions

The Armenians were destroying Turkey from the inside out and were being peacefully relocated

Now they won't stop bullshitting about "le scary murder shoah"

Assblasted gypsy

Some Armenians were in high-level positions in the Ottoman Empire, especially in economic positions. But they still have to pay extra taxes because they aren't muslims and get treated like shit because they aren't muslims. The Turks thought we would help the Russians in WW1 and they expelled us from their land mostly for that reason.

Turks, just more Muslim assholes!

Honestly, Mr. Turk, you're right. The real answer lays somewhere between the Armenian and Turkish narratives. Yes, Armenians were treated badly. But they also could have been a massive thread to Turkey if they rebelled and sided with the Russians. If I was a Turkish higher-up I'd do the same thing. The reason it's not shilled globably like the Holoshoahoax is because Christians like that, and that doesn't fit with the Jew's narrative.

...

i really love fucking armanian

Oy vey!

Remember the gazillions!

>rebelled
Citation needed
They were a big part of the Turks armed forces in WWI

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1904_Sasun_uprising
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1894_Sasun_rebellion
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yıldız_assassination_attempt
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Ottoman_Bank

not saying the ottomans din du nuffin here, but the armenians were partly to blame for all the shit they caused on themselves for being a thorn on the ottoman side

Huh didn't know these

>i would do the same thing

You realize you dont need to kill them, d especially poor unimportant armenians, for them to cease to be a threat. How dumb can you be ? If you really want to kill people just kill the ones who are truly dangerous

yes they did absolutely no question.

why do you even ask as if it were a question?

nationalistic turktard much?

Turkish revisionist?
I would expect such an answer from someone with their head buried in a very dark place.

Yes...
It was bad.

Ofc they did, and the Greeks, and Assyrians. they would never admit it thought, so they lie to themselves instead. Turkey is a trainwreck nation.

By that time everyone had equal rights though.

>trying to assasinate te sultan

That's just serb-tier

>what is tanzimat reforms
>what is kanun-u esasi

All Ottoman Citizens were equal by that time and there were many armenians, greeks and other christian minorities in Ottoman Parliment.

if you got something to say just say you fucking shitposters. You ruined Veeky Forums.
This board is dedicated to the discussion of history

''''''''''discussion''''''''''

>t. turkroach

>kill the ones who are truly dangerous
They did, they went after the leaders and intellectuals first. There was still resistance after that.

...

>did turkey slaughter the armenians?

Does ANYONE outside of Turkey actually dispute that?

the turkish diaspora

No, Turkey didnt exist.

Even Turkey doesnt deny bad things happened to Armenians. They fully acknowledge it. They just dont see it as a genocide. Also, Turkey didnt exist, unless you are talking about the casualties during the Turkish Armenian war.

Strange isn't it ?

Excuse me ? There's no public debate because the government argues that it doesnt concern them and acts like it didnt happen because it was before the modern day turkey. In anyway,turkey is the successor of the ottomans so instead or this dindu nothing attitude, they should try to talk about it objectively and make light on the facts.

Turk here
>Some armenians chimp out
>Turks decide exterminatus on everyone

I find armenians dindunuffinism absurd but turks also shouldn't cite some armenian gangs/rebellions/assasination attempts to justify the mass expulsion. That is collective punishment. Armenians who had nothing to do with rebels were persecuted unjustly.

>Massacre large amounts of Armenian civilians
>Armenians start forming local defense to protect their families
>Portray this as a rebellion
>Start back at the top
Max Scheubner-Richter, a German vice consul and commander of a joint German-Turkish special guerrilla force, described plans to destroy the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire.

"The first item on this agenda concerns the liquidation of the Armenians. Ittihad will dangle before the Allies a specter of an alleged revolution prepared by the Armenian Dashnak party. Moreover, local incidents of social unrest and acts of Armenian self defense will deliberately be provoked and inflated and will be used as pretexts to effect the deportations. Once en route, however, the convoys will be attacked and exterminated by Kurdish and Turkish brigands, and in part by gendarmes, who will be instigated for that purpose by Ittihad."

To add, the only reason the goverment denies is due to reparations.

Armenians are delusional if they think they can get anything from Turkey except with blood.

>There's no public debate because the government argues that it doesnt concern them and acts like it didnt happen because it was before the modern day turkey.

This is horribly untrue. Not wanting to debate anything what so ever comes from the hardcore armenian side. Turkey has repeatedly asked historians to research the issue and discuss it. I have no idea where you are getting this bullshit from. It is the Armenian side that considers the issue "done" without any research, and the outcome is "armenians got genocided, armenians were angels who didnt hurt anyone, turks are monsters who murder everyone". Any attempt to actually discuss the core is silenced, because the Armenians already have their own version done that is the absolute truth. You are hilariously wrong.

Justin McCarthy and his family have been under police protection since 1983. Stanford Shaw along with his wife and 14 year old daughter avoided assasination when their house got bombed when because of Shaws book on ottoman history. Its not worth it for historians in the US basically to speak against the issue, because of Armenians threaths to their reputation and credentials.

>Turkey has repeatedly asked historians to repeat its propaganda
Fixed

Ottoman historians in general are apathetic to the issue of the armenians. It was not discussed much. What Turkey does is fund said historians to research the history objectively. It says alot about how ones house gets bombed by Armenians if he actually tries to objectively form an argument to why its not a genocide.

Most if not all so called "armenian genocide experts" have absolutely zero credentials regarding ottoman history. The rest are Armenians with a revisionist idea.

Couldn't find any evidence to your claims of bombs and police protection outside of website devoted to Armenian Genocide denial.

I'd say it's funny that Turks think non-Turks on the Turkish government payroll make legitimate historians, but it's obvious you roaches want other people to believe that instead.

A legimate historian makes one with legimate credentials. Are you actually implying Turkey is paying off said universities that the historian works for? Take of your conspiracy hat please.

It's actually quite the opposite. A genocide committed by Muslims against Christians is the last thing the EU and other globalist political elites want to bring up, because it would intervene with their goals of flooding the west with dozens of millions of Muslims.

They'd much rather have a genocide about Christians killing Muslims, and they even tried to fake one (see Yugoslav wars).

...

>Take of your conspiracy hat please.
You've accused over 99% of historians who study this subject of being part of a great Armenian conspiracy. The delusional one is you.

>its just a bunch of balkan and armenian dudes circlejerking with turk hatred at this point

%60 of the turkish-ottoman history threads in a nutshell. With %30 being the turkish jingoist shitposting back.

youtube.com/watch?v=7TrovtcNhpQ

I have asked you 50 times by now to name some. This is cringe tier, please stop replying if you have nothing to contribute. You just keep on rambling. Its hilarious. One comes and say "turkey is not discussing the issue, it ignores it", and a few posts later im already getting silenced, the idea is apparently already decided "99 percent of historians dissagree with me". Atleast these 30 minutes proves the guy here deadwrong.

Bitch do I need to kill you again?

looks like 100% pure kebab desu

Turkey actively hides the fact that it committed one, Germany is at least very guilty about theirs. As a fellow Veeky Forums user I'm sure you can appreciate the hate for turkish revisionist history.

...

Germany lost the war. You are probably the same guy here up a bit above. How much money per hour do you make shilling? Literally every thread, lmao.

Your tinfoil is showing friend

Is Veeky Forums full of Armenian Genocide deniers or is this always the same roach pretending to be multiple non-roaches?

Daily reminder that genocide Is the bi-product of a civilized society, which realizes that exterminating the dangerous threat to society, to none, Is the most effective cause to further peace.

I also want to say, as one who objectively pursues the truth, i completely agree with you that the Turkish version has historial revisionist elements.

That said, the revisionism doesnt even come close to what the Armenian diaspora have pulled out of their hats the last decades.

And THAT said, keeping calling me a tinfoil my friend. I thoroughly enjoy it. The more you act like that, the more everyone here can see what kind of """historians"" Armenians are.

I have been on Veeky Forums for 3 days now. This is the second thread i have been participating in. The first thread i absolutely BTFOd the armenian guy. Its looking like yet another one where he keeps on going "m-muh tinfoil".

Feels good!

>two roach posts 15 seconds apart
We know it's you Mehmet

It is pretty obvious its me. Just like its pretty obvious some are you, idiot.

talk shit get hit, when you rebel and betray someone who have been protecting you for centuries you must be prepared to face the consequence. you dont see the turks whining and playing the victim card after WW1 dont you? they fought back instead of crying and begging reparations like a little bitch

this is pretty much what happens, armenians betrayed the Ottomans during WW1. The Ottoman empire was very protective of Armenia, hindering Russian invasions of the Nation and allowing it to be autonomous, the Armenians had to pay tax but they could live their lives freely.

When Ottomans and Russians went to war with each other Armenians decided to side with the Russians. They send Insurgents all over the Ottoman empire killing civilians, and terrorising the lands. The Ottoman empire had enough and send a few soldiers and commanders to Armenia. There, the Commanders ignored the Sultans orders and massacred Armenian civilians, perhaps to avenge the people that died because of Armenian insurgents. Once the Sultan found this out, he punished every officer and apologized to the Armenians.

The conflict was actually over and nobody bothered but after the Holocaust Genocide became a serious matter, and I'm guessing that Brits somewhat told the Armenians they should get repertations just like the Jews.

Its pretty funny, Turkey has been trying to fix the Armenian relationship for years but I guess friendly turk-armenian relations will probably never happen

Yes. They had been slaughtering them since the Hamidian Massacres. The Ottomans were losing their empire bit by bit, and they were looking for someone to take it out on. The Armenians were engaged in revolutionary and seditious acts as well. When war broke out, it pretty obvious what was going to happen.

The main thing is, is that it wasn't pre-planned. However, the CUP had to know that setting a vulnerable minority in everyone's crosshairs was going to be bad news for them. Marching several million people in the Syrian desert, without proper food or necessities, is asking for a pile of bodies. Enver Pasha and the rest had a vague idea of what would happen, they just didn't care.

Turks are still in denial about it because: A) the Armenians were bloody Marxist terrorists after that; B) they almost saw their entire nation and people wiped out by the Allies after that, had it not been for Ataturk and; (C many CUP members helped liberate the country with Ataturk, killing even more Armenians along the way.

But mostly it's because Muslims are psychologically incapable of admitting when they do anything wrong, especially to Kuffar.

Interesting you accuse muslims, Given the fact most of the young turks were atheists at best or paying lip service to islam at worst.

You should change it to
>But mostly it's because Nationalist are psychologically incapable of admitting when they do anything wrong, especially to foreigners.

But they also had Caliph declare Jihad against the Allies.

In truth, it was a little bit of both. If you read one of the better memoirs of the Armenian Genocide, "Armenian Golgotha" by Grigoris Balakian, this becomes increasingly clear. There was one passage where the Turks get done massacring some people and then get their prayer rugs. On Army Captain talks about how The Prophet wants them to massacre infidels since Jihad has been called. Then in the next paragraph he talks about how the Arabs are racially inferior and they're next, after they get done with the Armenians.

There was a racial-nationalist element to it. Understandable, considering that was the thought process of much of the modern world at that time. But there was also a strong indication that this was more than just ethnic conflict. There is every indication that this was bloody violent Jihad. Islam demands subjugation of all non-Muslims (Dimmi's) living in Muslim lands. According to Islam, if Dimmi's break that deal, then all bets are off.

Yes we did.

But first Armenian genocide in 1894-1896 made by sunni kurds.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidiye_(cavalry)

bump

Would it be justified if the Germans and Russians exterminated all the Poles because of the 19th century uprisings? If the British exterminated all the Irish because of the IRA? How are the Armenians to blame for defending themselves from a government trying to exterminate them?

Armenians were slaughtered. Whether this constitutes as genocide or whether the Turkish state is accountable if not responsible is a far more complex question that never gets asked, let alone answered, because political interest groups are constantly mucking up the possibility of any historical debate if it doesn't adopt their black/white platform from the start. They even abuse the peer review function of reaching historical agreement and consensus by irrelevant nonsense like dismissing any historical research they don't agree with as a product of partisan bias and forgery or they collect petitions by unrelated historians making emotional, not sober and historical, declarations that are of no value to any actual research attempt.

And all the while the Turkish and Armenian governments jealously guard their archives and tow their party lines on anyone that attempts to sway one way or another.

This article is probably one of the best, most balanced overview I've found online thus far, which says a lot:
encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/ottoman_empiremiddle_east#The_Home_Front__Women_2C_Orphans_and_Civilian_Mortality

>governments jealously guard their archives and tow their party lines on anyone that attempts to sway one way or another.
This is a hoax from Turkish denialists. There are no mystical "archives" to open because Armenia didn't have a government from 1914-1918.

You give the Turkish revisionists more weight than is due, which means you're probably either a Turk or someone ignorant trying to be pseudo-neutral.

And this is the bullshit that I specifically mean. Say one thing they don't agree with (even if it's true, especially in this instance) and it's "you must be an agent of the enemy" drivel all over again.

And this is the bullshit I specifically mean. Point out one side committed crimes against humanity and the other did not and it's "hur dur I'm not taking sides both sides are to blame".

Do you think this critically about the holocaust or rwanda genocide? Again, not that I suspect you know jack about any of this.

Please point to where I ever said both sides are to "blame" for anything but fucking with the academic process. But do go on proving my point and constructing more straw men to burn.

guess that would be the first time a Turk military unit rebelled

>This is a hoax from Turkish denialists. There are no mystical "archives" to open because Armenia didn't have a government from 1914-1918.

What the fuck are you talking about? The government of Armenia has a national library that is closed to foreign historians. You sound like an idiot whose only experience in this debate is engaging in half-truth wars with your idiot rivals and never once tried to do any actual historical research on your own.

You're hiding from my question. Would you look at the holocaust and rwanda genocide this critically?

>The government of Armenia has a national library that is closed to foreign historians.
The archives hidden so well they don't exist. The library closed so tight no one has ever heard of it.

Not even the turkroaches believes this, but they really hope non-roaches will.

>The archives hidden so well they don't exist. The library closed so tight no one has ever heard of it.
Hurr
asbarez.com/128170/national-archive-chief-says-enough-documents-to-bring-turkey-to-court/

>no mention of secret library
>no mention of info closed to historians
Hur dur so they say!

Thanks for the gracious admission of having choked on that hairy foot of yours.

>>no mention of secret library
No one but you brought up the word secret.

>shit got rekt, quick call him a name!

This article goes into the topic a bit better

meforum.org/2114/ottoman-archives-reshape-armenian-debate

Basically there are a lot of collections around the world, and some are hard to get into for some reason or another. The point the user was making has nothing to do with the deportation/genocide issue itself, but the barriers that keep popping up that impede historical research or politicize it for some end.

There was a talk last year at Harvard that also touches on this problem. Things have gotten better since the turn of the millenium, but for a time it was a real circus of a debate

harvardmagazine.com/2015/01/ronald-suny-armenian-genocide

>Even a century later, the controversy surrounding the politicized memory of the genocide has meant that scholars themselves have paid relatively little attention to truly exploring its causes, Suny explained. Those who have denied that the events of 1915 constitute genocide—including the Turkish government—have often considered these massacres a purely “rational” effort to quell rebellion during a time of war. Historians on the other side, particularly Armenian scholars, have similarly “tended to shy away from explanation” of the genocide’s root causes, worried that any attempt to explore those causes risked shifting blame to victims of the Turkish policies.

>The result, Suny thinks, has been an overreliance on a narrative of national conflict. “In the absence of explanation,” he asserted, “what you have is essentially an essentialist argument—that is: Turks are the kind of people who employ massacre and systematic killing to maintain their imperial dominance. It’s almost a racist argument.”

>You're hiding from my question. Would you look at the holocaust and rwanda genocide this critically?

Yes, actually. That's the whole point of Holocaust studies. A critical look is not the same thing as denialism, and never has been.

>Online forum with a Turk OP
>All sources are Turks and a few non-Turks that work for the Turkish government

>MEForum
>An online forum like any other
>If it's Turkish in any way it's wrong

This is part of the problem the user was mentioning. These aren't Veeky Forums arguments, they're /int/ in its purest form.

>>Online forum with a Turk OP
It's a peer-reviewed article in a scholarly journal, one which if it did have a bias is fairly obvious from reading the links at the top of the page that it's American and right-wing if anything

Abdul Hamid II was an asshole though, at the time of the assassination attempt, even most turks wanted to overthrow him. They actually did soon during the Young Turk coup, done by the same guys who did the Armenian genocide. The same political party, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation was basically an ally of the Young Turks until the Balkan Wars in 1912-13.

Nice

Lel, exactly like i was saying earlier in this thread. Revisionist idea presented by Armenian diaspora that considers the issue done without any research, any attempt to actually discuss the core is silenced like a maffia group. So fucking glad my country (Turkey) is fighting the good fight against these scum """"historians"""".