I read 30 Years a Watchtower Slave, and commiserate with the author's experiences as a member of the JW. It reminds me of a local cult here in the Philippines, which is Iglesia ni Cristo.
I've recently talked with a member, however, and it seems to me that they've mellowed out and have the Bible as their basis. They're even more literal than the Bible than Catholics.
Why was the JW such a horrible organization then, though? I just read Comfort for the Jews and to me it's a very heretical work.
Can anyone expound to me the differences between this religion and Christianity, too?
- No Trinity. - no religious symbols. Cross is an idol worshipped by others. Jesus died on "torture stake" NOT cross. - Originally Russell was a Zionist but realized an evangelical Christian organization would be more effective. - Not strict creationists any more. It's weird. They accept 13 billion year age but still believe in Adam / Eve & universal flood. - I was raised to believe Armageddon would come in 1975. Miserable to know you will die before you graduate high school. They have since stopped giving a date. - no blood transfusions. - Anti masturbation. No pre marital sex. - anti feminist to an extreme. Young girls dressing like Satan's harlots must be avoided. Anal about dress code. - House to house & door to door my friend. - American flag is an idol. No pledge. - no military service - no Christmas or other holidays. Being a kid sucks. Your friends have fun but you can't even really be their friends. - No "communion". Only the 144,000 can partake and then only on Passover. - Paranoid about individual Bible study. You must digest only the current programmed lessons. - Really bad Bible translation, which is published in a zillion languages. They are one of the largest publishing organizations on the planet.
I am tired, have to stop and wish you luck.
Henry Torres
Also... Doctrine had change radically since the early days of Russell then Rutherford. The older books (late 19th to mid 20th cent) could be really Zionist. They chilled out some once Israel became a state. - no birthdays either.
Andrew Russell
>Jesus died on "torture stake" NOT cross. That’s just a translation issue, the original Greek word (stauros) didn’t specifically mean a cross but any sort of stake, though by tradition people assume this particular stake was a cross.
Noah Morgan
>O Jehovah, hear my prayer; Let my cry for help reach you. Psalm 102:1
>I said: “O my God, Do not do away with me in the middle of my life, You whose years span all generations. Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth, And the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away. But you are the same, and your years will never end. Psalm 102:24-27 jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/psalms/102/
>Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. Hebrews 1:1-3
>But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.” And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.” Hebrews 1:8-12 jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/hebrews/1/
Gee, I wonder why in Hebrews 1 they didn't render ''O Lord'' as ''O Jehovah'' like they always do...because this passage is about Jesus Christ!
Michael Williams
Hebrews 1:8-12 and Psalm 102:25-27 are about the attributes of "Jehovah": His Eternity, His Immutability and His Creation of the Heavens and the Earth. Only "Jehovah" has those attributes and since they are explicitly applied to Jesus, in the JW's own Bible, it is undeniable that Jesus is "Jehovah", the Eternal God.
Father = "Jehovah" Son = "Jehovah" Holy Spirit = "Jehovah"
JW's own "Aid to Bible Understanding" book admits on pages 884-885 that the spelling of "Jehovah" originated with a Catholic monk named Raymundus Martini in the 13th century. On page, 887, they admit that there is absolutely no evidence that any of the New Testament writers ever used YHWH in their writings.
Evan Sullivan
I never thought they was bad or anything tbqh
Sebastian Foster
What's your point?
Connor Smith
>Can anyone expound to me the differences between this religion and Christianity, too? Here's a Christian pastor explaining it to you in detail in about 1h 13 mins:
tl;dr only the 144,000, a number from the Book of Revelation they interpret literally, will be allowed a proper eschatology with exaltation, the others will be resurrected as material.
Let me repeat myself: these miserable cultists pester me all day every day, and won't even go to Heaven, according to their own theology!
You know what? I agree!
They will most definitely NOT go to Heaven!
Grayson Long
Also, I'd recommend checking out the history of the Burned-Over District:
That's where the all the crazy American cults came from: Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Adventists, you name it.
Mason Garcia
Complete nutters. They re-wrote the bible to fit their cult beliefs, changing Jesus into Michael the Archangel.
Caleb Carter
Weren't the Mormons from Iowa?
Kayden Sullivan
The other absolute nutter belief is that God's true name is pronounced Jehovah, which they get from the Hebrew YHWH, which language has no "J" sound whatsoever.
i will expound on recent organizational changes & provide proof if you want
Landon Foster
Christianity: Catholics and orthodox church Jehovah witness, Mormons etc are fucking cults invented by the dumb fuck Americans.
Landon Garcia
Sucks to be you. Thank god I'm catholic. Btw Catholics can fap whenever they want.
Dominic Wright
No we can't. Do you even Catechism?
Easton Rivera
>he doesn't even get the best part of his religion i.e. sin all u want and confess l8r
Jose Hall
>This person thinks he's saved by his membership in a church.
Colton Scott
You're not legally forbidden to fap, even if I was I would fap either way. God only want us to be happy and avoid dick health problems in the future.
Juan Jackson
>God only want us to be happy
Aiden White
>not including protestantism >implying Rome isn't the devil's masterplace >implying the pope isn't the antichrist incarnate >laughinglutherans.gif
Joseph Bennett
>God only want us to be happy and avoid dick health problems in the future. >Veeky Forums """""""""""christians"""""""""""""
Juan Price
>this person thinks salvation is just paying lip service to Calvary
Juan Russell
You still need to not sin.
Ryder Nelson
Why can't you receive blood transfusions? What happens if someone in the organization receives one without consent? With consent?
Tyler Ortiz
They think blood transfusions goes against the biblical prohibition of drinking blood.
Seriously.
Levi Mitchell
Due to the fact that they won't serve in a military, JWs are arrested in Singapore. Their existence is hidden from the local populace unless you're Christian and even then, most of them don't talk about it.
Though not even celebrating birthdays is a bummer.
Carter Evans
I saw a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses in town the other day. They had a big poster saying "WHEN YOUR LOVED ONE DIES..." with some old person underneath it, with a little "The Watchtower" at the bottom. It was one of the most tasteless things I'd ever seen, and I've been here for like 10 years.
Anthony Sullivan
>Why was the JW such a horrible organization then, though? I just read Comfort for the Jews and to me it's a very heretical work.
Its because they are very sectarian and do not allow any dissent or unorthodoxy and have one of the strictest excommunication policies which effectivly makes people unpersons which just shreds families.
Likewise despite two failed second comming predictions in the past 100ish years they still hold its just about to happen (as in weeks and months rather than centuries) hence place little value on education beyond what is needed to evangelize
Luke Hall
they're a for-profit sect operated by ~8 old men in a Brooklyn hotel called the 'Governing Body', said to literally be directed by God himself
Joseph Parker
Jesus is Jehovah, yet they try to hide this fact.
Pic related is from their own translation.
Christopher Parker
Thank you for your answers, guys. Will read through each and everyone of them later.
Jeremiah Peterson
So in essence, despite what my friend said, little has actually changed.
Eli Bell
Why are you on this site.
Like , this site is the exact type of place that the organization warns you to be weary of when using the web.
Kayden Sanders
Expound upon recent organization changes? How many GENERATIONS have your family been witnesses? The Organization has gone through CONSTANT change since Pastor Russell and Zion's Watchtower in the 19th Century. While their anti-Trinity doctrine is sound, the "New World Translation" will always be part of their downfall. Instead of taking the high ground and translating scripture in an unbiased manner and basing doctrine upon that; They instead translate to fit their doctrine. The translators have little if no qualifications. - Went to the Hall for the first time in almost 20 years to pick up the New NWT. slicker publications. Witness publication (propaganda) quality has improved, but Same shit different millennia.
RUN
Aiden Ross
Most "religious" people on Veeky Forums are role-playing autists, and not actual believers.
Landon Richardson
I read Mankind's Search for God and it's a better propaganda than Comfort for the Jews. I just like reading propaganda, but the latter ones are wary because they're more subtle.
So that still persists, then? Because from what I learned from my JW friend they're actually basing their Bible on the King James's Version. I'm not sure whether this still is true nowadays.
Lucas Baker
The whole stake thing is retarded. You need ropes to keep you from suffocating yourself on a traditional cross. A shoulder dislocating abomination like a stake would do that really fast, and the main point of crucifixion is "keep that guy alive and in pain for as long as possible'
Adrian Jenkins
Can you give a TL;DR on "Comfort for the Jews"?
Joshua Wright
No KJV. New World Translation (3 editions) (c) 1961, 1984, 2013. Total copies over 208,000,000
Jack Garcia
Remember: Michael Jackson grew up a JW. Prince converted to JW.
Bentley Sanchez
I believe the bible is God's Word, yes.
Romans 10 ... that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
YOU give Him lip service; your heart is nowhere near Him. Your faith is in your vile institution, not in Him.
Isaiah 29 Therefore the Lord said:
“Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men....
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Owen Hughes
What are you babbling about? Nobody can "not sin". Nobody but Jesus.
Isaac Thompson
What a bullshit assertion.
Dylan Myers
Palestine's going to be returned to the Jews out of some bogus calculation that Rutherford made up back in 1925. He also suggests the implantation of Jewry in Palestine in order for it to progress. The year of the Jubilee was 1925 because of these calculations. Scary, propagandist stuff, I tell you.
Nolan Nelson
Rutherford claimed in Comfort For The Jews:
This volume…is the first unbiased presentation of the subject from the Scriptural point of view.
The proof herein submitted…is based upon prophecy…as recorded in the Holy Scriptures and upon the physical facts in fulfilment. (p. 10)
The rebuilding of Palestine is now beginning and is well under way. This is being done clearly in fulfilment of prophecy uttered as promises from Jehovah. (p. 12)
The mere fact that the Lord said he would overturn it until a set time, is conclusive proof that it is God's purpose to restore Israel to his favor upon certain conditions. (p. 45)
Starting late in 1925 Israel would become: "…a mighty nation, even greater than in the past." (pp. 86-97) And: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the faithful prophets had the spirit of Jehovah… Those faithful ones shall come forth from the graves and be established in the land of Palestine. (p. 96) Israel's restoration has the support of Jesus: The testimony of Jesus therefore is a complete corroboration of what has heretofore been proven by the prophets of old and by the physical facts in fulfilment of those prophecies. (p. 73) It is: "in fulfilment of prophecy" (pp. 12, 67, 125) "absolutely certain of fulfilment" (19) "promised" (pp. 53, 55) Why do some people disagree that Israel will be restored?: Because the promises of God are not always fulfilled at the time when men think they should be fulfilled, many lose faith in his promises made. Let each one settle it in his own mind for all time that when God Almighty makes a promise that promise is absolutely certain of fulfilment in God's due time. (p. 12) Finally: It must be apparent to every Jew who has followed the argument herein set forth, which has been based exclusively upon the Holy Scriptures, that God intends Israel, the Jews, to have the land of Palestine; that he promised the land to Abraham and to his seed after him, and that he purposes to keep that promise… (p. 125)
Noah Bell
JWs and Mormons are satanic cults.
They make Catholics seem like real Christians, and that's saying alot.
Easton Sullivan
The Jews were buying up the promised land from 1900 to 1933 from the Arabs who were only too eager to sell sand.
Rutherford was obviously wrong. 1925 was not a Jubilee year.
Anthony Jackson
That's my point, it was wrong. JWs have been wrong a lot of the time for quite some time. They had a Zionist stance that was wrong, and then Rutherford made up this BS.
Ayden Powell
>They make Catholics seem like real Christians
Hunter Cook
>Protestantfag spewing random bible passages to make himself feel good about his heresy
You pay lip service. You are assured of salvation and assume that's the end of it. Rather you are assured and must make constant effort to keep it. If I was assured of free daily meals, accepted a lone free meal once, and then refused to eat those free meals ever again, am I well fed?
No, you believe salvation is easy and you deserve it constantly. You don't. You are evil and worthless and sinful. God sent His Son to save you and demands you do something in return to maintain reception of the salvation. You must receive the sacrements to maintain it, confess our sins frequently and partake in the Lamb's High Feast on the Alter.
Protestantism is unsubstantial, it just pays lip service to God. You read the bible but you treat it as though that's it. That the bible is self-evident of its message at all times, that we are capable of interpreting it ourselves. That's why you get shitheads who hold rattlesnakes and claim that's "Puttin' muh Faith inah da LORDAH!" but you aren't, you are putting your God to the test. You do they same with faith healing, which also ignores Sirach by eschewing medicine.
Go away you ignorant Prot troll.
Evan Cook
According to the meme theory of religion, the religious groups that thrive do so because they have mechanisms that encourage their survival and proliferation. The Jehovah's Witnesses have a top priority of spreading the word as evidenced by the door-to-door evangelism.
As a teacher I came across many children from JH families, and their parents. Without a single exception, they were all delightful people, both adults and children.
Jaxon Hughes
I suggest you read the parable of the weeds,Kantian genius
Asher Hughes
Yeah, this. My friend's a great guy - really nice person - which was why I wonder why he had strong faith in such a religion.
Xavier Howard
>Without a single exception, they were all delightful people, both adults and children. Just like pic related
Joseph Kelly
I did. And that can easily be turned against you since you can just as easily be refered to as chaff. But you are so self-righteous that you'ld laugh it off. Of course you would "I'm saved" is all you need apparently. You can accept Jesus and sin all you want afterwards and still be saved! Because you apperently can't lose salvation!
Which is odd because if there are "fooled Catholics" who profess Jesus as Lord and Savior, why do you care so much about the state of their soul? Even if the rest of their faith is crap and worthy of Divine Ire, that one act should be all that matters, right? Accept and be saved? Where's the need to worry about commiting sin after you say "Jesus I accept you as my lord and savior?" That's it, your golden and nothing can stop that. If you've accepted Jesus, why do anything else? I could become a Scientologist but still process Jesus as my Lord and Savior and by most "Once Saved, Always Saved" Protestants standards I end up being in a state of damnation for apostasy while simoultaniously a state of salvation because you apparently can't lose salvation no matter what.
I have never heard a good counterargument for this, just self-righteous log-in-the-eye proselytizing that answers nothing and just tosses out bible verses because bible and apparently that makes it a good argument.
Git Gud with apologetics, people will actually listen to you better if you can articulate and actually convey a point.
Heck, go to forum.catholic.com, if Carholics are in such dire need of salvation, go preach the TRUTH OF THE LORD there.
Christian Anderson
shitty re-writers of the Bible religion
Alexander Torres
Confession isn't valid if you aren't genuinely repentant
Colton Smith
I can say that about just about every 'christian' on here
Asher Clark
Iglesia ni Cristo is probably a shittier religion than JW.
Man, the people are usually unbearable.
Nathaniel Roberts
>He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Romans 2:6-7
>He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Romans 2:6-7
>...to those sanctified in Christ Jesus... 1 Corinthians 1:2
>You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don’t you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
>...you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ... 1 Corinthians 6:11
>Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23
Gavin Perry
>cool thread about cults >gets turned into HURR DURR THE RELIGION I'M ROLEPLAYING IS BETTER THAN THE RELIGION YOU'RE ROLEPLAYING DOZE VAULT goddamnit
Blake Thomas
>The one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13
>But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Romans 11:17-24
Once again: >For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. Romans 11:22
Parker Hughes
>For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29
>For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 2 Peter 2:20-21
>Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:7-10
>But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:27
>And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. Luke 8:13
Hudson Ramirez
>And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12
>Now that we have been justified by his blood, how much more will we be saved from wrath through him! For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life! Romans 5:9–10
>Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:12–15
Wyatt Barnes
Where is sola Scriptura in the early church?
Sebastian Barnes
Nowhere. Because no one follows the book like it's the fucking quran.
Levi Rivera
Hey, eyeposter, have you ever considered making a trip?
Nolan Rivera
Ergo, Protestantism is false
Easton Moore
Why?
Benjamin Bell
This could have been a pretty comfy thread.
It's unfortunate that it devolved into some faggot's soap-box.
Jaxson Rodriguez
All you need to know is
Julian Brooks
>expecting comfy when it comes to religion >not knowing that this is like a gang fight with people trying to attack each other Dude, what the fuck are you on?
Joseph Turner
So... Any of us can read Scripture. Any of us can hit CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V. Do you however have the ability to think independently, firm opinions and articulate them, thereby contributing to this discussion. Do you have any knowledge of the doctonal history of the Society or have you simply been trained (brainwashed) to attack anything you don't understand. While I may not agree with much of the organizations doctrine, my arguments are reasoned and based on actual knowledge of the changes the Society has gone through over the last 150 years.
You have produced what the kids would call Shitposts. You lack the ability to think on your own. You have the mind of a child and you have my sympathies.
Gavin Cooper
I was addressing the unbiblical ''faith alone'' proddy doctrine. Don't reply to me again unless it's not a shitpost.
Joseph Nguyen
>He can't read what it actually means Don't post my leader ever again.
Caleb Rogers
>No "communion". Only the 144,000 can partake and then only on Passover. 144,000 is the number of people that are/will go to heaven and it's already predetermined who that is. JW believe that paradise will be here on earth and that's where we'll all get to live for all eternity. Heaven is reserved for the 144,000 holiest. It's a weirdo cult, but I did love reading bible stories they had when I was a kid.
Gabriel Gutierrez
That's one of their beliefs?
Man, that is fucked up. They did rewrite a lot of the Bible, damn.
Samuel Ramirez
Why is Hirohito so sad?
Christopher Williams
Paul clearly said that we are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (.) PERIOD! End of sentence
That's what I've heard back when I was going to the meetings or whatever they call their gatherings. It was about 20 years ago tho, when I was a kid. What do you mean by "that is fucked up" ? What is ? Despite being agnostic I still rather like the idea of us living in paradise on earth and being able to pet lions and tigers and shit and living forever. Reality seems to be quite grim though, we probably die and that's it but oh well...
Landon Rivera
The only 144,000 get into heaven idea
Mason Thomas
...
Jordan Bell
Fucked up how ?
Jonathan Long
>grape juice >Luther
Zachary Morgan
>God's first testament is not eternal >Worshiping a human being is not idolatry >Looking beyond the 7 noahide laws for theological guidance
Has anyone even read the masoretic text?
Thomas Garcia
>Worshiping a human being Jesus is God you apostate.
Aiden Morales
>Jesus >not God Eat shit.
Samuel Morris
...
Kayden Rodriguez
Cult with excellent PR
Actually had a couple JW that are friends, but its always a minor conversion attempt. Also, completely fucking cray-cray on certain things.
Niece got a JW publication kids story where the kid decided not to play with a wizard toy because it represented idol worship.