WEARING your clothes

Art as expression is a relatively new idea that emerged around the late 19th to early 20th century, user. Don't take this shit as a self-evident fact. Art has not always and is not supposed to be only self expressive. The act of self-expression is not a end all means of making art. This shit is literally Arts 101.

Anyways, my idea of building outfits is that one should think like a museum curator rather than an artist.

This is a toxic meme. You have it backwards. Lack of confidence will ruin a potentially good fit, having confidence doesn't make a bad fit good.

Fuckboys are confident. They're still an eyesore.

Confidence is just a basic prerequisite. Find it, and move on.

Self-expression is a myth. There is no inherent, pure individualist self that your taste, personality, etc. derives from. It's a misguided, regressive, vulgar (in the linguistic sense: dulled, common etc) concept.

Fashion is an art form and it is expressive. In my opinion, there is no discreet line between wearing pieces, adjusting them and making them. It's a question of degree of engagement.

Good style comes from a sensitivity with 3 contexts: you, your reception and your sources. One might choose to engage more heavily with one or the others. You can, for example, focus on wearing Yohji beautifully with little regard to the context towards your social community or personal body, personality and lifestyle - but you still need a sensitivity to it, ie lacking it.

I'm regurgitating points I made in a discussion in the vidya thread:
Lastly, I think OP's request for a fit is misguided. WAYWT & sartorial photography in general has divorced the way receive fashion through media from fashion itself, similar to the distinction between a runway show and actual rtw in our lives. Why are we designing discreet "fits" when, in practice, our daily wardrobe cycles pieces between many outfits in a continuous thematic engagement? Dressing up an outfit in hopes to get shot on high street or get good rep on a forum isn't style. You see style a lot more often in the playful screwing with clothes of teenagers at shows, trading clothes in bedrooms. It's not about lqqks. It's something that lives with you.

Runways, shoots and real style are always received as montage.

>Teddy on Sufu
Sorry, can't find the guy. Might be because I don't use the site.

Can you link to his profile or repost his fits or something? I'd still like to look at them, see what I think. Might be very helpful to me.

>you, your reception and your sources
Can you elaborate on this?
>you
I assume you mean something like "body type, habits, etc.
>your reception
Not exactly sure what you mean.
>your sources
I assume you're talking about the brands you wear (like your Yohji example), as well as maybe the ideas that go behind making that article of clothing.

This. Most people seem to confuse being an actually genuinely interesting person with clothes that project one's personality to actually being fashionable. Like in the example given in the vidya thread, someone like The Dude, Shia, or Mac Demarco aren't fashionable in any way with regards to the principles of coherence and design but they have outfits that exude their personality, which large amounts of people find to be a personality worth paying attention to.

Personal design is not always good design. Imho, this conflation is brought about the toxic ideals by modernist artists during the 20th century which leads to the "confidence is the key to pulling of fits" meme. Not to say that their art is bad, just that being seeped and fixated on that ideology can make something shit seem great because its individualistic. I'm reminded of Gucci, Vetements, and Gosha's latest shows and the fashion world's reaction for this one.

Not him but here's my interpretation:
You - proportions, aesthetic leanings
Context - the people around you and what they view as fashionable
Sources - the people from who you learn to be fashionable and their biases

>sensitivity
And what did you mean by this, too? I'm genuinely curious. If you elaborated more on what "sensitivity" means to you, it would really help.

its literally just how attractive you are

if youre tall, thin, white, and attractive you can pull off literally any style and look good in it

if youre a manlet, fat/skinnyfat, nigger/spic/chinese (ugly) you will look like shit in anything, the more shit the more cool the clothes are

99% of Veeky Forums look like shit in their clothes because 99% of them are ugly, short, chinese, or all 3

Please stop this dumbass, half-baked, and outright insultingly reductionist view of fashion. It doesn't stand up to 5 minutes of intellectual thought.

I'm trying to think of a better way to put it

By you, I mean your body's proportions, but also its specific physical aesthetic. For example, a slavic face will modify the way the same outfit would be seen on a germanic or anglo-saxon one. Or maybe you might evoke certain connotations, to take cinematic tropes as an example: dracula, secret agent, etc. You don't have to choose to accentuate it, you could also defy it or engage with it ironically or in other subtle ways.
And beyond the body, your identity. And your personality, humor, mode of speech, etc.

By reception, I mean your audience, the social context. Your peers or the people on the street, etc.

By sources, I mean the context of the garments' production. It could stem from an auteur designer with clear intentions for the piece or a generally understood set of themes - it might also be the historical context of a traditional piece, a breton shirt for example (note that this wouldn't simply include its origins but also where history has taken it over the years)

What's important is that your outfit is itself, in a sense, a work - just as the individual pieces are, even as your body is. You have an audience for the work, the work itself exists in their reception.

You could, for example, put together a fit engaging with detourned symbols of British menswear - from doc martens on the feet to a barbour country coat and a stone island sweater - but the outfit would lose its meaning with an audience that isn't familiar with the citations. Maybe. I'm not that convinced about the importance of an audience to be honest

These are just my personal views fyi and something that I'm still working out

I guess I mean it in the way that an apprentice of any skill begins to learn things by 'hand' or by 'feel', like blacksmith intuitively knowing the melting point of his metals
Or just like how an instrument is sensitive. You know your body, your audience and your citations deeply, by gut.

stay in denial and keep posting pics of tall, white, thin, handsome runway models

ready for the ebin rebuttal using a tall, white, fat, old yet still handsome runway model

ugly chinese tweens will never look good in anything, sure it doesnt help that theyre all tastless fucks wearing rick julius and bbs 11 but check the ccp tags on insta if you think putting them in better labels is gonna make them look good

>manlet
>asian

I guess this guy looks like shit
;^)

>falling for the bait
Sorry guys

The only audience that should matter are those who prove themselves capable of intellectually and visually analyzing what makes an outfit good, imho.

I never defended fuccbois nigger. All I'm saying is that if you know yourself well enough then you can pull off good fits even if you're a fat, asian, manlet. Take note I said know yourself and not be confident.

To be honest the majority of looks that catch my eye are from old chinese grandpas.

>The only audience that should matter are those who prove themselves capable of intellectually and visually analyzing what makes an outfit good, imho.
I'm not so sure anymore. I moved to a very un-effay city and it was putting every one I knew here on edge until I toned things down. Not to anything I didn't want to wear, but I've been playing with a lot more poppier colors and childish pieces.

I had the same problem with conversation, I didn't want to dumb it down but it's hubristic to think you can maintain the same standard everywhere and not end up often isolating yourself. I don't mean wearing things out of context, runway in the street etc, but ignoring who you're communicating to.

One way to look at it is an artistic collaboration. It's an excuse to try out different things and bounce off another's method. It's definitely better than just resorting to the internet for an audience or pretending you have the audience you want rather than working with the one you do have.

I got an our legacy towel shirt in the mail the other day and I had a lot of fun wearing it out today. It made for a lot of good banter at dinner. It's certifiably dumb as rocks but that's the value in it.

yohji isnt a chink you fucking gook apologists

isnt ugly either

what about shui
hes not a manlet but he sure is tough to look at in the face

Old chinese people are really effay as well.

But back to my point, I suppose you can slowly visually train those around you in a subtle way, especially your closer circle. Gradually amp up the experimentation in the outfits in a daily to weekly basis and until it doesn't seem shocking to them anymore. The people I'm living with are a very conservative bunch all to the way of dressing and this is what I'm doing. Now I can wear Yohji or CDGH+ pieces without them batting an eye.

no who you were engaging, and with a very eloquent reply;

my legs would spread so fast if i ever met you.

500 to one it's a male

how tall is he?

wrong, my friend.

L O N D O N
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Thus actually makes no sense imo. A museum curator's job is to assemble the pieces an artist makes into a coherent show and makes sure the display is functional. If you're thinking of your items of clothing as "pieces" then I think you're misguided. The viewer cannot distinguish each piece of clothing as an artistic statement onto itself, only the outfit. So you can only think of an outfit as one singular piece, unless of course, your individual items have so many things going on that the eye can distinguish each piece as unique, which is very difficult and probably expensive to pull off. An artist uses the outfit to express how he's feeling on a specific day or to showcase his consistent personality through a defined aesthetic. I think going from Rick to Raf to Sibling to Wales Bonner shows that you have no true personality and should work on yourself more. Find out who you are. Read more, watch film, etc and find out what appeals to you and express that. If your taste is eclectic than you should find a way to coherently blend the influences into something unique. THAT'S style. Everything else is just fashion

>The viewer cannot distinguish each piece of clothing as an artistic statement onto itself, only the outfit.
The perception of the whole is entirely dependent on its parts and cannot be divorced from each other. Any form of artistic analysis and any analysis for that matter, even in the most subconscious way, requires the evaluation of parts to whole. Ignoring the fact that parts are important is like trying to evaluate the holistic effect a movie has without paying attention to its plot, writing, cinematography, sound, etc. - it is utterly impossible.

The most important thing imo is self-awareness as you experiment with various fits and styles.

This might be a long read, but bear with me.

1) Dressing well is relatively easy to do. There are basic principles you should (SHOULD) adhere to. For example, color compatibility, texture compatibility, contours, etc. These principles are learn-able and how well they're applied is observed in every person's outfit.

2) You need self-awareness for this next part. Manipulate these principles to match your own personality and body type. IMO, the biggest reason people fail at dressing well is because they don't understand that they cannot pull off certain looks and the traits that these looks imply. People who are not self-aware look at other people's fits and think, "Pfft, I can pull that off too", without realizing that they don't have the proportions and features necessary to. For example, a short, stubby male tries to wear some all-black goth ninja fit that is intended for a leaner, lankier physique. A great case in point is the evolution of Eminem's personal style. Look at what he wore back in 1999. Look at what he wears now.

3) Don't take other's advice dogmatically. Essentially, someone else's advice is their own abstraction of what's aesthetically pleasing and may or may not suit your own style. New trends appear when someone pulls off something that is, for the most part, in line with basic principles but pushes the envelope ever so slightly. If you don't want to look like the run of the mill meme, you have to know when to draw the line regarding following in others' outfits.

4) Cost does not equal aesthetics. Bape.

Those are most of the ideas I can type out off the top of my head, may have some more later on.

Also, get yourself a tailor who understands what you're trying to go for and doesn't suck dick. If you lack an eye for these things, surely he'll set you straight with the stuff you bring in.

i like shark hoodies because they remind me of nose art, so wearing them shows that I'm an autist

This is something I really feel, but I've never been able to express it well. Everyone on the internet looks awkward in high fashion, unless you're handsome or have the charisma to pull it off.

Rick Owens' drapey stuff looks bad on skinny white people. White people shouldn't wear Yohji either, it looks fucking ridiculous 99% of the time.

People should dress for their surroundings and who they are more. That's partly why overdone techwear makes me cringe so much (even though I think it's kinda cool in a vacuum).

nice b8 m8

I really fucking hate when Veeky Forums goes off on a self-aware mumbo jumbo bullshit rant and talks about FUCKING CLOTHING as something more than fabric.

Buy and wear the clothes you like. It's simple really. If you can't afford it but you want it, start saving. Stop thinking about fashion as an art show or a circle jerk. Just wear the damn clothes.

>don't let the clothes wear you.

>White people shouldn't wear Yohji either, it looks fucking ridiculous 99% of the time
yohji uses a lot of white models ;-)

post fit

models aren't the majority of white people

and actually I correct myself, a lot of Yohji's stuff isn't extreme and actually looks good on anyone. but his SUPER oversized and baggy stuff looks bad on whities. i'll find a pic

yes, that's true i guess

Yeah ik, I've been doing that. The thing about normalfags, at least in the midwest, is they seem to get offended or threatened by things they can't easily categorize, like being into clothes but not being a hypebeast.

If it's evidently a nice piece, middle class normals with also often view it as meaningless indulgence in luxury - either labelling you as not knowing how to value money or as showing off how much money yo have to waste - as well as a symbol of a lack of confidence or pretentiousness. They don't have a concept of it as form of art or even a hobby, because culture is out of style. I don't know, I think it's just insecurity regarding money and education.

are you a girl? people keep telling me they wish I was a girl so they could date me - in person and here on Veeky Forums. I don't know how to feel about it. I wish I was a girl too tb.h

Yeah that's the midwest way of thinking. I recall reading an excerpt from a book stating that the reason a large chunk of midwesterners moved to California as it started was due to their overly communal culture.

>not wanting to earn 30 cents more per dollar
user pls

worth it senpai

It makes sense though. Midwest suburbs are familial breeding grounds and when people begin to raise families, it seems like they're more willing to conform more had they not been willing before.

Then again there's those who never thought to go against the grain in the first place that end up living just like their parents and perpetuating certain cookie cutter lifestyles.

I hate the Midwest. Real talk.

Yea I don't know. I'm from CA so I'm not used to it. I thought LA's tribal cliqueishness was bad but this is suffocating. Even the underground and art scenes are no different.

You can't blame it just on a communal culture. It's not true in east asia (taiwan, korea, idk japan) when it comes to their alternative scenes, excepting fashion

I'd love to move to a large city or onto a coast just for a change of scenery and culture, but I wouldn't be surprised if the people in those regions ended up being similar in nature to Midwest suburbanites in their thinking (e.g. tons of hipsters with a sense of false individuality who decry communal culture).

Yea, it's true everywhere, but in a large enough city with enough cultural emphasis and cost of living low enough to support freer lifestyles, you'll find pockets of good people doing what they do. I've heard Detroit's really happening these days but I'll probably expatriate once I finish school. The west doesn't have a future

>expatriate
emigrate*
tell it like it is

same thing?

yes, and agreed, sometimes i wish i was a boy too. i'd date you either way, if that's any confort.

>tfw no nao gf

expats refer to people living in a country they are not a citizen of. immigration can refer to cross-country or inside a country

>find out what appeals to you and express that
How? How do you express it?

OP that is the gayest fucking outfit I see on this entire front page. I'm amazed you picked the gayest thing to post. No one can beat this gayness. This gay is very gay. Off the gay charts. You rode in from gaytown and annex Veeky Forums to become apart of gaytown. So gay.

Thanks fa.m, I appreciate the gesture. I'd like a gf who's into me for my interests and thoughts and not my look and clout for once.

In cronenberg's dead ringers, the lead qt asks one of the two identical twin main characters 'how did you learn to be so good in bed?'
his answer: 'uh i r-read books'

Nowhere books can't take you

Good fit, shoes fucking ruin it though please change.

are you this guy

not me

bumping a good discussion

then contribute something nigger

but I'm going to sleep and didn't want the thread to 404 before I do

However you dress there is an instant way to look Veeky Forums and complicated.

You need to always seem preocupied like you have something deep to think about.
Have kind of a pissed off look on your face.
Stare into nothing.

Bitches will think you are complicated and interesting, they will try to find out things about you.

Or you could, you know, develop interesting hobbies including fashion and have a passionate drive to learn more about them to the point where others get interested as well and not be a fucking poser.

you're both wrong. the real key is in the 'dead in eyes' look.

eyebrows slightly raised, mouth just barely agape (stick tongue between teeth), relaxed shoulders and posture, blank stare.

How long should a blazer for casual wear be? I'm talking sleeve wise.

I've been getting conflicting views about the arm length and this picture is making me more conflicting.

I bought a blazer online that has a sleeve at the length he has it, is it too long? I plan to wear t-shirts under it for now so isn't it normal it's longer now when not over an actual shirt and undergarnent?

It's related to clothes wearing you or you wearing clothes, need to be comfortable

Thanks

how the fuck are you comparing ccp with ro,julius,yohji and fucking undercover. typical new money hypebeast, you have no appreciation of artisanal clothing.

lol@nigger

To be fair, the guy he was responding to said "CCP and RO", so it's not just him.

Does anyone where to get these kind of yohji-esque loose but cropped pants for cheap. I can't afford designer clothing and I can only find pants that are low rise and skinny, the opposite of what I want. I have pretty curvy hips so this skinny low rise shit makes me look like a bitch =/.

nowhere else. stop being broke and get a job or buy second hand.

>wage gap

Jesus what has Veeky Forums become

How cheap is "cheap"?

i'm being sarcastic you nigger

>mac demarco
My man
Absolutely true

amiparis.fr/en/carrot-fit-trousers-7550.html
amiparis.fr/en/carrot-fit-trousers-7546.html

100-150, and I know I can probably actually find used yohji pants for that price but I've only had bad experiences with ordering clothes online- I need to try shit on before I buy it. Also some of yohji's cuts are a bit extreme,

something like would be ideal for me, higher rise, loose, no break.

Confidence is the only factor that can affect this. That's why Asian girls look like tools in their $10,000 outfits, and why white girls look so fuck worthy in paper bags.

Buy normal straight leg wool trousers oversized and take them to a tailor or learn to tailor them yourself. You can find them pretty easily in thrift/vintage stores depending on your area's tastes

you can also just hunt through mallcore's suit sections for their suitpants. Nordstrom probably has a decent selection

Crops are trivial & cheap but taking in the waist can be janky. A lot of kids I know just use belts to tie oversized thrifts tight, which only works if you're not tucking

hifi fnk sells similar cuts too for very cheap, I think most of their product are retailored vintage, but they're based in korea. I don't know any similar retailers in the west but at the very least it means its out there

But yeah, yohji trousers tend towards ~$125 on grailed, which is a steal t/bh. Many of them are y's when you check into the listing, and yohji in general is unisex. You can just message the seller for detailed measurements and fit pics (if pre-worn)

In my opinion, it's better to dress 'honestly', as in within your lifestyle, funds and available options, rather than trying to approximate things not in your accessible environment. You don't need to imitate designer style fits to look good on a budget; there are a lot of great low cost styles too, they just tend to incorporate a lot more diy and/or hunting, which is very cool in its own right.

For example, if you go through heidi's diary, he takes a lot of photos of OC/LA teen shows which is the scene I grew up in (granted: he only ever comes out to lame gigs), it's good inspo though it's definitely only looking at a small subset of the scene's style that fits his taste.
still: almost everything anyone wears is either random nobody brands found at goodwill or very classic, non-designer (dickies, wranglers, vans etc.). Showing up to a show in CDG would've been lame, unless no one found out it was - not counting leather pieces and shoes etc. that you can't really fudge easily

...

nice fantasy world ur living in. juvenile fuckboy

yohji is not unisex please stop spreading misinformation

y's has a distinct mens and womens line as does the mainline if you can't tell the tags apart you probably shouldn't by buying yohji the clothes are tailored entirely differently based on whether or not they're mens or womens pieces

they are not unisex.

the whole clothes have no gender is another conversation entirely and has no place in discussion the unisexness of yohji's designs

i however would like to see more women take on men's yohji rather than just his feminine designs

you mean the sub 80 iq mouth breather look?
thats not a good look

his superoversized stuff looks fine on whites yohji's clothes look good on nearly anyone put your stupid racial inferiority complex away and stop spewing bullshit about things you don't understand

this guy is like 5 feet tall and looks like he sells crack to school kids

yeah this is 100% true there is this retarded ebay store/grailed store called unisexism that exclusively sells pieces cut with biological females in mind and its fucking stupid

I know what you mean and I agree, but I wasn't implying they're designed unisex, just that they can be worn unisex. Yohji's 'feminine' designs are very menswear inspired.

Yeah i've thought about buying oversized pants and cropping+taking in waist. Looking at youtube video right now on how to take in the waist and youtube.com/watch?time_continue=354&v=31WZby8JXr4 looks pretty simple. I might just give this a go.

which teddy? marion or theo?

>Don't take other's advice dogmatically

heh

Seriously though how do I learn about fashion

Ted Cruz ass muthafucka

no if you wear a womens y's piece you will look fucking stupid as hell

You know it's not only skirts and dresses, right?

Two sides of fashion:

Tangible aspects: materials used, contours, fits, colors, etc. Understanding the tangible aspects enhances the aesthetic appeal of your outfits.

Intangible aspects: culture surrounding the clothing (the history, the people, the inspiration).
Understanding the intangible aspects and intertwining them with the material aspects will ultimately garner respect from culture-oriented fashionistas. Disregarding cultural aspects = your typical ignorant consumer.

I don't care too much about the intangible aspects since the dissemination of fashion through the internet has damaged the heritage and authenticity of exclusive subcultures (i.e. your average fuckboi is privy to high end brands and can own it so long as he has the $). I use the intangible aspects to verify that companies stay true to their ideals and don't outsource their craft (LOOKING AT YOU STONE ISLAND).

where do you learn about tangible aspects

experience
go to stores and handle the clothing
buy things you like and even things you think you like
making mistakes and copping stuff you later regret is part of the growing process
find a designer you like and then read up on them as much as humanly possible
if you want to delve into the actual design behind the clothing you can read books about pattern making and clothing design
really there's no substitute for experience though

I only wear basics because I am a beta cuck. My Target Polos wear me.

apparently B line yohji (coming soon) will have unisex designs.

So me buying shit I think I liked/wearing outfits I thought were me and then realizing they weren't is normal? Literally 70%+ of everything I have bought/worn is has turned to regret.

Helps if you can try them on in store. I've lost ~$500 from reselling shit that didn't fit me. Now I know better about the standard fits of certain brands and the type of bodies they're catered to.