Did China experience more Habbenings than any other country in the world throughout history? Who else can come close?

If you count China as one country in history then you have to count all of Europe as one country as well. Also India.

Thats bullshit and you know it.

China is a big country

what irks me is why are so many people in both chinese and japanese historical depictions represented as phenotypes that cant be recognised in average chinese or japs today
i know a lot of them are other ethnicities but even so it leaves a bunch of people that look way more rugged and with more developed fatial features, almost like caricatures

is that just it, is just caricatural stile?

An Lushan was white.

Also, Genghis Khan had red hair.

Why is it bullshit? The Ottoman Empire claimed to be a continuation of Rome, but was it?

>China
>Large country ruled over by one emperor during times of peace

>Europe
>Continent with many different countries/ independent people's all throughout history

10/10

>during times of peace

What about during habbenings? Also, is Tibet included in Chinese history?

half of these are poo desu

tl;dr country=\= continent

How so?

I doubt there were that many casualties during the Late-Han civil war and subsequent three kingdoms.

There certainly were a lot, not to mention other deaths from famine and displacement. However, I've noticed a lot of historians taking census records from the Han and census records from the Jin at face value. In reality, a lot of the missing population was probably due to a decrease in government control and its ability to register people. Some had likely fallen under the control of large private landowners or fortress chieftains who were outside of the purview of the central government. I wouldn't be surprised if more people died from the subsequent period when Xiongnu, Jie, Xianbei and other groups took power in the North and sacked Luoyang and Chang'an (granted both cities also suffered immense depredation during the Late-Han civil war). That was an exceptionally violent and unstable period. Actually, is this the "uprising of the five barbarians" in the OP referring to this?

Plenty of people talk about it.

As much as the Yellow River is a boon to the chinese, that river has probably been responsible for millions of deaths.

Everytime that river floods is a cataclysmic event

Western Jin population was anywhere from 23-45 million if revised census estimates are to be trusted.

Jin nobles were embroiled in civil wars that led to Han rechauvinism by an ethnic Xiongnu.

The fall of the Western Jin is the equivalent of "WE WUZ" for some southern Sinitics.

yeah the war of eight princes was pretty bad too

>for you

Rice, along with two big ass rivers and a monsoon season, enabled them to have such a big ass population in the first place, thus leading to higher deathtolls.

>Europe
The meme pan european empire split into two and the western half collapsed, replaced by kings n shiet
>India
Same with Western Europe following the fall of Guptas.

Not really China's case. After then the Qin-Han Period, China proper is pretty much established. Times of division = civil wars in China. There's a reason why Chink Dynasties can't exist side by side: they're after the Mandate of Heaven and there can only be one set of family names that can claim it.

>Chinese history has a pattern of highly centralised government authorities disappearing overnight with massive body counts
hmm...

Shit, does that mean the CCP is one day just going to randomly go belly-up? Fucking Christ I don't want to see what a China Habbening with nukes would look like.

Well China never had a government THIS centralized before. You could do only so much with premodern communications/transpo tech.

Personally, I would love to experience a global nuclear holocaust.

Always makes my laugh/cry when i see the peaceful asia meme or that map with battles on it an europe is entirely covered and china only has a relatively few dots on it. China literally wouldnt even record battles the size of most of the ones happening in europe. Literally having napoleonic era numbers in antiquity.

I'm assuming that a lot of these deaths result from disease and famine more than actual combat...

The peaceful asia meme is sort of true because it usually refers to international Asian fighting.

When you literally can count on a single pair of hands all the wars between China, Korea, and Japan.

Except for the fact that rice is not traditionally eaten in the Northern Plains of China where most of this shit went down.

It's CURRENT YEAR and you guys are still falling for the "Chinese people only eat rice" meme. Not all Chinese people are like your local immigrants from Hong Kong.

Except the Southern Expansion was vital to the population explotion of China because of:
1) Rice.
2) It never freezes over like the North.

Its part of China's recent history, probably around Qing era history. I don't know if the chinks actually teach this in their history class or not though. In the chink's view, Tibet has ALWAYS been part of China.

Probably.

An Lushan is really one of those figures where the meme "What was his problem," really applies.

But what about the %?

Where do I start with my China histories? Any books you would recommend?

How close was he to conquering all of China anyway?

Has there ever been a mayor chinese conflict that does not end in a million of deaths?

I don't think its fair to say that the Han empire disappeared overnight when there was a long decay in power & quality of life by the end of them.
That's why shit like Yellow Turban Rebellion happened.
Also i think its crazy to say the Qing empire wasn't having a long and painful meltdown.

that just means it will fall harder than anything else in Chinese history

That is a scary fucking thought... but I'd love to witness it happen. Not because I hate China, but because I'm just a massive whore for happenings, wherever they happen.

>Shit, does that mean the CCP is one day just going to randomly go belly-up?

>That is a scary fucking thought... but I'd love to witness it happen.

It already is. The Chinese market has been attempting to correct its over inflated self for a long time, but the CCP continues to try everything in its power to stop it. They've been able to delay for a long time now, but the market will eventually correct, and its going to bite the CCP hard in the ass. I don't think we'll see wholesale collapse, but the government is going to be changed.

Yeah what a douche. Hou Jing too. Bastards who ruined great things.

He was assassinated in the middle of doing so. By his son.

So far he took much of the Northwest with him when he rebelled, and used his contacts among the "barbarians" in bolstering his army.

No.

Consider how JUST-tier things were 1958-1961, 1966-1970, and 1989-1991.

Centralized government didn't fall apart then.

Nice meme

Except Tibet was part of the Chinese empires off and on since Han times.

It was always a tributary state.

Han settlers 2000-present have made it majority Han now... Kind of sad, but hey it happened in America as well.

The
>history repeats itself
meme is the one thing Veeky Forums should try to beat out of newfags' heads.

You realize that you're spouting a meme repeatedly said since 1990?

>broken clock

Nah. Tibet was a Chinese bitch come the Song Dynasty.

From Han to T'ang it was China's vicious Western neighbor. Unfortunately Buddhist Monasteries cucked the secular government and led to its demise.

The Han empire conquered it a few times. Never was it colonized though so when unrest came to the capital, Tibet entered a semi-autonomous state again.

It was always a tributary state.

Under Song, part of Ming, and all of Qing, it was part of China.

That's why to this day it is officially recognized as being a Chinese autonomous province.

Meanwhile it is 54% Han now. PRC won't make the mistake of the Empires.

>late Han Bureaucracy
>highly effective

The real answer is that when you have an extremely prosperous commercial system, it allows a larger population than would otherwise be possible.

When you move the capital and its millions of residents thousands of miles westward, away from its traditional supply networks, while simultaneously causing a collapse in demand in the region left, even the emperor starves. And all the regions with populations over carrying capacity must suffer once trade shuts down.

>Centralized government didn't fall apart then.

That was then. This is now.

Persian historian Rashid al-Din recorded in his "Chronicles" that the legendary "glittering" ancestor of Genghis was tall, long-bearded, red-haired, and green-eyed. Rashid al-Din also described the first meeting of Genghis and Kublai Khan, when Genghis was shocked to find that Kublai had not inherited his red hair.[8] Also according to al-Din Genghis's Borjigid clan, had a legend involving their origins: it began as the result of an affair between Alan-ko and a stranger to her land, a glittering man who happened to have red hair and bluish-green eyes. Modern historian Paul Ratchnevsky has suggested in his Genghis biography that the "glittering man" may have been from the Kyrgyz people, who historically displayed these same characteristics.

I mean it wasn't for lack of effort in 1989
also killing or otherwise eliminating everyone that could post a threat to your reign tends to artificially extend it a little

>kyrgyzstan literally wuz genghis

not everything you disagree with is a meme, you know.

Except in the case of China history literally does repeat itself, and on top of that their religious-mystical conception of reality is predicated on a cyclical view of history.

Chinese history is fucking insane, and trees like poor fantasy literature

The weirdest part is how the massive civil wars, huge death tolls, improbable invasions, and rapid changes didn't end until our parents' lifetime

Gee. I wonder how Tibetans feel about that.

not even until my parents' lifetime
t. son of a refugee

What are you talking about, they all love the PRC.
One China, right?

Who gives a fuck about Tibetans, I feel sorry for the Huigars.

I'm sure they'll be thrilled to find out that they were actually a part of China for the past 2000 years.

>Nice meme
And yet several Chinese stock indecies have yet to register real growth since 2010 and continue to slowly slide in value. Growth is factually slowing, and the government is continuing to print unthinkable amounts of money in order to continue to prop up their slowing manufacturing and export sectors.

Chinese jingoism never fails to amuse me. Do you kids talk like that in real life too? Do most Chinese kids these days have megalomania?

Tibet being under Chinese suzerainity isn't jingoism it's historical fact.

>The Tibetan Empire emerged in the 7th century, but with the fall of the empire the region soon divided into a variety of territories. The bulk of western and central Tibet (Ü-Tsang) was often at least nominally unified under a series of Tibetan governments in Lhasa, Shigatse, or nearby locations; these governments were at various times under Mongol and Chinese overlordship.

It was, however, formally included in the Chinese state by the Qingz in the 18th Century following the defeat of invading Gurkhas from Nepal.
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Nepalese_War

You seem to be arguing against a de-jure argument, purely because it offends your sensibilities. Is it megalomania to claim a territory your nation controls de-facto? You're the kinda guy who gives away the Panama canal for peanuts.

>Makes American Civil War look like a popgun fight
>You're on the wrong board.

>Do most Chinese kids these days have megalomania?

I love talking to indoctrinated Chinese students, it makes me think of how Japan was in the 30's. I wonder how Chinese people would feel if they realized that they're basically Japan 2.0 in terms of global ambitions.

Such is life in Vancouver.

>Indoctrinated Chinese students.
How I know you're making shit up 101. Most Chink students are utter normies or rich kids who do not give a shit about history. The "Indoctrinated Communist Red Guard" died with the 60's.

Besides, the reason red chinks would give for Tibet would be "It was a part of China" and "it needed liberation from its theocratic tyrants." Basically they'd give recent history as justification, not Imperial history since they weren't taught that.

If ever, it's the Nationalist Chinese who know their premodern history. And their ambitions are even worse from a non-chink standpoint since they want to follow the old Qing Borders to specification and reclaim Mongolia as well. So no this is not just a "PRC indoctrination" thing.

Chinese nationalism is bigger than ever right now.

Was it a part of your plan to get opium addicted?

snowniggers fuck everything up, again.

And it's highly unofficial. Taiwan- despite the weirdo independence thing going on- is still it's main bastion. While in PRC, the nationalist bent on history is super fucking recent for accusations of HURR INDOCTRINATION to be valid.

I mean, hell just in the early 70's, China was hell bent in depicting it's imperial past as something second rate to grorious communism. Not to mention the shitloads of rebellions in Chinese history make Imperial history a very dangerous subject to teach even in today's mood of nationalism.

WE

The PRC Chinese nationalism is akin to Japanese nationalism in the Showa era, a massive revision of history to fit contemporary politics.

The 70's also aren't a good time to judge the contemporary CCP by because the CCP has transformed immensely since then. Communism doesn't even register in the minds of the modern CCP, for whom Chinese nationalism - or Han chauvinism rather - is the driving ideology.

>The 70's also aren't a good time to judge the contemporary CCP by because the CCP has transformed immensely since then.
It is, wanna know why?

Because for claims of indoctrination/editing to work: the leadership has to know Chink history.

Whose formal archaeology/historiography just fucking began when China opened up.

So the leadership that spent DECADES disregarding Imperial Chinese history suddenly had it neatly edited? Come on.

>Han Chauvinism
PRC wouldn't have minorities if this was state ideology.

Not for lack of trying on the part of China

This is true, but saying its been part of China since Han times is historically incorrect. Tibet has only officially been part of "we wuz Qingz n shet". After the fall of qingz, they were defacto independent, they've been trying to get out of qings' reach for a while. With no effective Chinese government to enforce the Qing's empire, Tibet was free for ~30-40 years. However the PRC came and took over Qing's mandate and tried to take all the states that broke off back into the fold. It succeeded in most part, with exception of outer Mongolia, which the Soviets helped break off.

>This is true, but saying its been part of China since Han times is historically incorrect.
Except you're talking to the wrong user.

I'm not saying its a part of China for a long time. I'm saying it was a suzerain of it ever since the Lamas JUSTed the Tibetan Empire into a weak collection of theocratic states.

How is Han Chauvinism supported by the state?

The PRC anachronistically applies the concept of Zhonghua Minzu to claim random polities were historically Chinese even when they weren't(Goguryeo,Yelang etc.).

Tibetans are China's Injuns. Just like 19th century America, there is no one else geographically situated to take advantage of the region; china is the default suzerain.

Tibet-Mongol had priest-patron relations.

India-Tibet could very well take the same role.

>there is no one else geographically situated to take advantage of the regio
Not really.

For one thing, there *was* a Tibetan State. The Empire.

Also, when it collapsed Tibet was contested by China & whoever was the big boy in Central Asia. Mongols famously.

Gurkhas in Nepal made a bid for overlordship of the Himalayas but were defeated.

Ignore the picture, I have no image for Tibet in my laptop.

These failed attempts at challenge are analogous to Mexico's failures. Thus the analogy holds.

Still wasn't alone. For the longest time, China's suzerainity was among Eastern Tibetans, while Nomadpeeps had the Northwest. This state of affairs was only ended by the Qings when it removed Mongolia from the picture.

Yes and fifty four forty or fight was the cry until the Brits folded.

>And it's highly unofficial.

Implying the CCP isn't promoting it and exploiting it. Even if it was "unofficial" that's irrelevant because it's still widespread and ubiquitous as fuck, including to overseas Chinese.

>This is true, but saying its been part of China since Han times is historically incorrect.
Mostly because Tibet as an entity didn't even exist until Tang.

They may not as an empire, but as a tribe as a people, they most likely existed.

They'd probably be generic nomadic stepe people