Where I can find some good oxford shoes or similar?

>Meermin charges for shipping each way
???

I'm sure you know your shit, user, but I don't follow this? Shipping each way?

Yes. As in, if you have to exchange something because of fit or some other reason, it's on you to pay for shipping. 35 euros in each direction adds up fast. This is for north america customers, I guess I should have clarified that

I don't know where you live or what your experience is buying mens' dress shoes on the internet, but, typically, american customers buying shoes from an american vendor *typically* get treated favorably by the vendor, if not all the shipping costs, at least some of the shipping costs are borne by the vendor, and they're lower. The same is also often true of europeans buying within the EU.

There's a lot of reddit hype on european micro brands such as meermin, but it's worth remembering that it's a different customer experience compare to, say, AE, where they bend over backwards for you and there's a store in every little strip mall so you can try stuff on and drop things off for exchange. Or, say, zappos, where you can order one in every size and color, and RMA the rest, and you only pay the exact stated price of the pair you keep, and not a cent more.

>Cole Haan
>good

the inconvenience of returns/sizing is a bitch, but they are absolutely at a lower price point than allen edmonds with shipping included, and offer an arguably better shoe

I mean unless you're canadian, in which case exchange fucks you over, but in the US, a new meermin shoe is markedly less expensive than a new, non-factory second AE shoe

Oh, I get it, returns.
Yeah, I'm a bong and my size fit right the first time so that's something I never spent a moment on considering, thanks for the clarification.

inconvenience and price are two separate issues. your main argument in favor of meermin seems to be price. I would argue that, on the contrary, if price is a big concern to you, unless you eventually plan on buying three or four more pairs from them, meermin is not the best choice. let's do the math:
1. Size on first try: about $215 all-in, you win
2. Size on second try: about $293 all-in, not such a great deal, but ok
3. This is far-fetched, but third try: $371 all-in, ouch

Contrast that with AE Strand: $396 at full retail, you get to try them on, and they're better shoes (sole and footbed). And, that $396 is only if you're lazy. It's a very common model, so factory seconds are pretty easy to find, or wait for one of the multiple sales they have every year. And, no wait (unless you wait for a sale), whereas meermin often takes the order, waits for the factory to fulfill it, and ship it weeks later

Just an example. You might not like AE styling, there are many other brands. I'm just using them as an example of why Meermin isn't such an awesome deal as it appears at first, unless you live within the EU (although there's VAT for those people)

Also I'd be curious as to what you mean by saying meermin is arguably better. The linea maestro has a reputation for being legitimately high quality but the regular line is widely regarded as being "good enough considering the price"

You're acting like getting the correct sizing is like drawing the lottery. It's on you to do your research on how a particular last fits in relation to your own foot, imo.
>they're better shoes (sole and footbed)
Would you mind sharing why you think so?

With AE, a big chunk of that price goes toward providing the kind of customer service for which you and others love them. This might sound dumb to you, but that makes me think that a lesser percentage of that price tag goes into the actual making of the shoes. I'm 1 for 3 in terms of shoes from AE that I got my hands on and was happy with, and that pair was purchased from a goddamn Nordstrom.

Anyway, I still feel that Meermin has the best value at its price point as far as more well-known, "international" brands go. Let's agree to disagree there.

>Meermin isn't such an awesome deal as it appears at first, unless you live within the EU
T b h I can easily see this, but for those of use who are, £125 for a pair of wholecuts is a killer deal. Even their MTO is still a better deal than spending the same amount on a pair of Church or Crocketts IMO, the tradeoff is the wait.

YMMY, but simply due to the sheer volume of shoes and all the different stylings that AE has to put out, my personal experience is that their qc is not quite as up to snuff.
I decided to purchase their Normandy boots a while back - ordered them new online, and they came in with significant worn-out interior leather uppers and significant scratches and a particularly deep gouge on one boot. They were supposed to be pre-distressed, yes, but I didn't consider a gouge on the upper like that to be acceptable on a new shoe because it seemed like the type of thing that would affect how long it would last.

Visited a store and asked for an exchange, and they were happy to ship in another new pair in for me for free. That was nice. The new pair arrived but it was the same story with those, so I just opted for a refund, which they gave me, which as also nice of them.

So great customer service, with the qc not quite being what I'd hoped.

One more thing, and this goes back to the silly thing I said about % of the price you're paying actually directly going into the quality of the shoe - AE prides itself on manufacturing in the USA. That is fucking expensive, and not necessarily for a better end product. AE pays a premium to be able to say that 99.99% of their mainline offerings are made in the USA, and this has garnered them a lot of business. Meermin, I believe, produces some its uppers in China to save costs, making me think that for every buck I give them, they're a little bit more "efficient' In eking out another bit of quality, if you can quantify it that way.

You might think me an idiot for thinking that and that's fine. It does sound silly

>You're acting like getting the correct sizing is like drawing the lottery.
It is a bit like that, yes
>It's on you to do your research on how a particular last fits in relation to your own foot, imo.
Really? How are you going to do that? If I understand correctly, you tried on 3 pairs of AE shoes and bought all 3, and 2 of those 3 weren't even a good last for your foot. I don't see how you're going to manage to guess correctly via email.
>Would you mind sharing why you think so?
AE sole is leather on the outside, with a cork footbed. It's not evident on a casual try-on, but as the footbed breaks in, it molds to the shape of your foot within a few wearings. Meermin is leather sole, hard leather footbed. Nothing especially wrong with this, but it's not as complex and, given the reputed thickness of the soles of their regular line, they're simply not going to be as comfortable.
>his might sound dumb to you,
It doesn't sound dumb to me, but keep in mind the math isn't going to line up perfectly for a mostly mail order company contract-manufacturing in china, vs a brick and mortar company with a factory in the US. Additionally, if you are shopping strictly on price, it's unfair to pretend that the cost of shipping doesn't exist.

There are many similar brands to Meermin, btw. Loding and Bow Tie come to mind. I've got a pair of Bow Tie, they're nice, for the money, but they are a notch below AE, mostly due to the sole.

>They were supposed to be pre-distressed, yes,
Right. You bought pre-distressed boots and were unhappy about the exact way in which they were pre-distressed. That's a little unreasonable, especially considering that their main line of shoes is dress shoes.

For what it's worth I've bought 5 pairs of AE, 1 of which was a pair of casual boots (bayfield). The bayfields had the exact same "problem" you described, I decided to be a pitchy little bitch and do the exchange thing, but it was a bit silly considering the style.

Fast forward 4 years, after extensive abuse and multiple recrafts, they met their end on a recraft that was (most likely erroneously) accepted for processing (I think they should have told me to fuck off). I emailed them, they looked at the pictures, and after a phone call credited me the full retail price of the boots, close to $400, for a pair of boots that I wore and abused for years. So yeah, you pay a premium but it's not "being able to brag about made in USA", they do go way overboard in making sure you're happy.

all that said, AE are still great if you want your first oxford. Meermin shoes sometimes feel like they're breaking you in instead of you breaking them in.

>How do you research sizing?
It definitely isn't as easy as going to a store and trying them on, but
Meermin has a fairly small set of lasts from which they build shoes. If a certain shoe from a certain last in a certain size fits you will, then pretty much all models of shoe with that same last+size will fit you well.
You'll have to know the characteristics of your foot. What's your sizing/width on a Brannock device? Is your foot of a higher or lower volume? Once you figure these out, you're almost guaranteed to find forum posts on styleforum, reddit, etc. that tell you how a particular last will fit in relation to sizing that you know fits well. Say you're a 10.5 E Brannock with a fairly high volume foot, looking for sizing on the Rui last. Cursory googling tells you that you'll want to size down one full going from US to UK sizing, but digging a little more will tell you that your wider and thicker foot would probably be better off with going only a half size down, so you shoot for a size 10.

Well, I didn't quite say that you're only paying for the MiUSA label. We can agree that they bend over backwards to make the customer happy.

Alden,Tods,Bally,Ferragamo,Church's,Thom Browne,Tom Ford
also my first formal shoes were paul smith so they have a special place in my heart

Brannock devices exist because they're easy to use and provide a quick guide for a stockist in a brick and mortar sales model. They're not a substitute for trying on shoes, nor is reading styleforum posts. Simply wearing a different kind of sock can make a pair of shoes fit vastly different. I have a set of socks for loafers, a set of socks for boots, a set of socks for oxfords, etc... not just for fit, but for stylistic reasons. It may seem to you that I'm overly picky, but I spend a great deal of time on my feet, living in a city where people don't drive. If you spend most of your life in a car or in a desk chair, this may be less of a concern.
>Well, I didn't quite say that you're only paying for the MiUSA label.
Actually your exact words were AE pays a premium to be able to say that 99.99% of their mainline offerings are made in the USA, and this has garnered them a lot of business." That sounds like you consider it to be primarily a status issue, rather than offering actual advantages from the perspective of delivering on the (to you, illusory) promise of customer service excellence.

Anything with goodyear welt.

These are some of my favourites

Bocache & Salvucci Bespoke > John Lobb > Gaziano & Girling > St. Crispins > Edwards Green > G.J Cleverly > Crockett & Jones > Corthay > Berluti > Andy and Alessandro > Allen Edmonds

AE pays
not you

and christ man where the hell did you get the impression that I didn't think their customer service was stellar

I think we're talking about two different attitudes towards customer service

To me, by "customer service" I mean that, as a complete package, cost of shoes included, and friendly groveling sales clerk, you're getting a better end result: more shoe for your money

I think you see my argument as being effectively "people should pay more for politeness and a label that says USA". Speaking personally, I don't give a shit about politeness, and I'm not all that political when it comes to where my clothes come from. if the clerk swears at me it's fine; if it's made by slave kids in Tunesia, ok whatever. What I care about is results, and I think AE gives a better result, particularly to someone who is new to buying dress shoes and isn't quite as familiar with things like lasts, sole thickness, sock appropriateness, etc.

If you get a kick out of getting the best "deal" possible (according to whatever definition of "deal" you might have), and don't mind a bit of gambling, then ordering from meermin (and similar companies) can be a good thing. There is a tendency on the internet for people with a niche interest in things to project their values and requirements onto newbies asking questions, which I think can sometimes cause problems for the newbie.

Can anyone recommend a few brands (or models) of thick-soled, thick-welted shoes under 500 dollars? I remember there was a french brand that did has really thick welts that looked absolutely fantastic but I can't find it again. Pic sort of related, but maybe with a broader rim and bigger welts.

Looks like something a cranky old man would wear walking to the coffee shop at 6 am on a Sunday

Probably try Mephisto or Ecco

>Ecco

>Meermin you're basically paying allen >edmonds prices for slightly less than allen >edmonds quality
>slightly less than allen edmonds quality
>slightly less
>slightly

Grenson Triple Welt.

you own one of each brand?