/performing arts/-part 3

Ballet, classical music, opera, (musical) theater. Feel free to ask any questions and open up any topics, post your waifu, or state any opinions.

I'll post some topics to get us started:

1) Is art theater suffering? What can be done to help increase interest in the arts? What is being done where you live? Do you like it? Is it effective?

2) Is it your impression that choreographers are moving away from using art music as settings for their works? Why? Does this have implications for new composers? For the relationship between art music and art dance?

Other urls found in this thread:

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Ballet dancer here. Can you explain what you mean by choreographers moving away from "art music"? Which choreographers do you mean and define "art music"? As far as I know a lot of choreographers (mostly ballet just because that's my area of expertise) either use old compositions or newer pieces that tend to fall under the ambient umbrella

here again

I want to ask about the pretentiousness of a lot of arts that try and keep themselves pure (I'm thinking of ballet again but there are plenty of others that also suffer from this). I've noticed that for the most part these arts have only a few wealthy, older patrons that support them and the audience tends to be mostly other members of that artistic community. It feels masturbatory almost. What do you think of it? Is it dangerous for the art form?

I really don't know much about ballet, but whenever I go to see local choreographers in the dance companies from my community (Midwest America), they seem to mostly choreograph to ambient, film or pop music.

I guess by "art" music, I mean contemporary music produced in an academic setting (Julia Wolfe, Jennifer Higdon, Pauline Oliveros would be examples. Don't ask me why I only picked women). My pic in the OP is a nonexample of what I'm talking about.

I (as a composer) worked with some dancers on a work that was sadly never developed that much or performed. I think that this kind of collaboration was a lot of fun and that more dancers and composers should/would be interested in working together more often.

I'll get to your second post in a second.

>try and keep themselves pure
There are several ways I can interpret this, so you're going to have to clarify it a little.

But I do know what you're talking about. Where I come from we call those people the "grey hairs." It's bad because they donate the money to support the orchestra, so the orchestra caters to their desired experience, and their desired experience at the orchestra is to go, hear a Haydn symphony or five, then go home and have a nightcap and talk about how lovely it was.

I think that young people want a different experience when they go to the orchestra. They would be more interested in hearing Takemitsu over Beethoven, and composers like Lang and Wolfe would definitely speak more to my generation than Haydn.

To say what I'm trying to get at is that by appeasing people who have one foot in the grave they really kill the interest of their next generation of ticket sales and donations.

In ballet we have a different problem. A lot of the new ballets that are made are super abstract stuff only ballet dancers can appreciate. The traditional ballets such as Swan Lake and the Nutcracker are something that are more of a tradition for families to take their kids to or older couples to go to.

By being pure I mean the pretentiousness that a lot of dancers have. A lot of the tricks and athleticism that really excite non-dancers are very frowned upon by dancers. For instance. Ivan Vasiliev is probably one of the best people ballet has for branching out to new audiences. He has draw dropping tricks and as a result he's very in demand as a guest artist. However almost every dancer I know hates him. Admittedly his technique isn't as clean as a lot of dancers but he's still a lot of fun to watch. Another example would be the contempt for So You Think You Can Dance. True the dancing there is fairly subpar (especially the ballet) and most of the audience does not decide to look any further it still is one of the highest profile showcases of dance and a great opportunity to get young people excited about it.

I guess what I mean is that a lot of dance is made by dancers for dancers rather than trying to broaden the audience.

Thank you for the recommendation I'm listening to Reeling by Julia Wolfe right now.

I think the biggest reason a lot of choreographers pick ambient music is because it is much easier to do whatever you want with it. Same with film music. As for pop music, most of that is probably contemporary type stuff which is largely frowned upon. There are a few instances of pop music being used well in dance (Mercury Half-Life by Trey McIntyre). These work well because they are recognizable to the audience and provide a higher energy alternative to ambient and film music. Part of the problem with a lot of newer compositions is that they are not well known and too busy by themselves. Choreographers rarely want something with too much going on because they will be adding another layer too it. This is part of the reason dances with vocals often feel so grating to watch. This makes it difficult to use new music

I'm not super educated on music other than browsing /mu/ from time to time so sorry if any of this is offensively incorrect but a lot of the dance community isn't super well educated musically either so I guess I'm a good example

Could you link some YouTube videos of works you find especially pretentious? I'd just be curious to see exactly what you're talking about.

I get what you're putting down though. I dated a very serious student dancer and she'd always scoff at my compliments when I'd go to see her shows and give me corrected versions of how I should compliment her.

Yeah, pretentiousness like this in classical music is present, too, but I think it's starting to either change or get less bad.

To give you sort of the tl;dr (if you don't know about it), atonal music became super popular to the point of dominating all of academic music from about 1950-1990, but then people sort of got either bored or disgusted by the ultra-academic atmosphere made by all this atonality and sort of changed gears to opening up to less challenging music.

Like, music that was representative of the 1960's kind of sounds like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=6Rd5_9hyWm0
Representative music from the 1990's sounds like this (note more tonal suggestion/allusion):
youtube.com/watch?v=kyRatFogE0U
Representative music from the 2000's sounds like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=sUKEIGUGeuE
A piece from >current year (although it sounds a lot like Three Tales to me):
youtube.com/watch?v=DCHufi4S7-o&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4YT-0wXQ76BBCzZQHMQ1YEZ

So you can see a greater shift towards music that would have mass appeal, rather than away.

The same thing may happen in dance, too.

When I think of popular music in dance, I always think of In the Middle, Slightly Elevated, although I was never 100% sure where the music came from (which is unfortunate because I kind of like it).

/asp/ here. All I can see in this picture is butterfly guard.

For sure. But I think he's a bit out of her weight class.

>Part of the problem with a lot of newer compositions is that they are not well known and too busy by themselves.
Oh, I see. And I guess counting would be an issue a lot of times, since newer music has a lot of difficult metric stuff (pic is from rite of spring, but still)

youtube.com/watch?v=pVljGFJf-nw
Here is a ballet called Third Symphony of Gustav Mahler. And the title pretty much sums up the entire ballet. You might find it interesting since you're a composer but as someone who's not particularly musical sitting through pure movement for nearly 2 hours was pretty grueling. This is one of the better movements but a quick google can find a lot of the other parts of it. John Neumeier is one of the most popular choreographer right now and his ballet The Little Mermaid is actually one of my favorites. It has a fast paced story and really pulls the audience in. This is the exact opposite. It is all abstract movement and shows of athleticism. These are fun in small doses but very rarely can it be pulled off in a full length production. He attempts at grand statements (there is a part where the dancers lift one dancer and gather in a circle in particular) but they largely come across as grandiose cliches. Of course everyone in the ballet world loves it because it is a very difficult ballet to perform and moderately obscure so you get a good bit of hipster cred for liking it

Another example would be Sleeping Beauty even though it is a classic. It has a thinly veiled plot that is really just an excuse to show off a ton of tricks. The variations (that's what solos are called) are very fun to dance and exciting to watch individually but as a whole the ballet is quite painful to sit through.

One of my favorites is Giselle because it has a great plot with character development as well as good variations. It has one of my favorite mixes.

youtube.com/watch?v=kQeJjno6Y2I
Here is a fairly obscure ballet that is one of my favorites. Imo this is how pure movement ought to be done. This is only an excerpt but the whole thing is under 30 minutes

Yeah, but she would still be able to lift and roll him, if she got his head.

Do you get this kind of tetris effect going too?

I'm pretty sure the music was original but I might be wrong.

That's definitely part of it (dancers are notoriously stupid, we joke that if we were smart we wouldn't be dancing). As much as choreographers talk about trying to do what the music tells them to do they want room to breathe and complex music is a pain to work with. Another part though is heavily layered music though also. When there is sonically too much going on in a song adding dancers can just look sloppy. The best example I can think of is music with vocals. If there are lyrics and the vocals are mixed very high in the recording having a dancer and a singer going at the same time feels like you're being pulled in two different directions. The only really good example of lyrics and dance working together is Mercury Halflife by Trey McIntyre

youtube.com/watch?v=MbcgRLyqLkU

I want to add that part of the reason I think this is the best abstract ballet is it's length. When they get too long they lose their impact

That's actually really interesting how much more accessible music has gotten. This is the opposite of what dance has done. I never would have expected that. Thank you for this.

Also going to add I really liked the last piece do you have any more stuff like that?

Also, mods this is Humanities so please don't delete this

The first one you linked I didn't really get. It sort of seems like all of the typically less interesting parts of normal ballet (to me) put together into one piece. I'd have to know more about the piece in order to really understand it.

By the way, is the title a reference to a certain similarly named, very frequently-performed Balanchine ballet?

I liked the second one, though, it was pretty cool. Nice swim caps.

The pure movement that I've found that I like is less focused on virtuosity and more focused on things like balancing symmetry/asymmetry in large ensembles, trying to imply geometric shapes, or playing a lot with varying degree of leg extensions.

Do you just think that ballets with more narrative are more accessible and audience pleasing than ballets with less narrative, in general?

>The first one you linked I didn't really get. It sort of seems like all of the typically less interesting parts of normal ballet (to me) put together into one piece. I'd have to know more about the piece in order to really understand it.

The piece doesn't have a narrative and is more of a showcase of ability as well as an experiment in movement. The piece's main selling point is that it uses a large amount of guys and they do a lot of crazy tricks. This is my favorite part because it's one of the few parts they slow it down but it definitely is less accesible and exciting than the first movement.

>By the way, is the title a reference to a certain similarly named, very frequently-performed Balanchine ballet?

Probably not but I'm not sure. Most choreographers get lazy and name their pieces after the music, especially if there is no deeper meaning or narrative. I could be wrong though.

>I liked the second one, though, it was pretty cool. Nice swim caps.

Haha. The costumes are actually one of my favorite parts. It always bugs me when guys and girls do the same part but where different costumes. The excerpt is from Monochromes ii, in Monochromes i they wear all black I think (get it? monochrome)

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Yeah but it hasn't gotten more accessible all across the bar. This is a piece written by one of my teachers very recently, for example:

youtube.com/watch?v=H-YKjiBsiow

There are also still ultra experimentalists like Aaron Cassidy, although I feel more like he's pushing limits of musicianship and music notation more than anything:

youtube.com/watch?v=MVQGalLcxxU

Trigger warning: this post recognizes the existence of the holocaust

Well, as I said that movement reminded me a lot of 3 Tales. This is my personal favorite "tale," about Dolly the cloned sheep, but there are 2 other tales (one about the Hindenburg, and one about the nuclear test at Bikini Atoll).
youtube.com/watch?v=AJ8nO5XOhRc

This is a personal favorite piece of mine, also by Reich. It's called "Different Trains," and it's in reference to a comment he made during an interview, where he was talking about how during WWII his parents were separated and he was travelling from New York to LA via train. Since he was Jewish, he said that if he were in Europe during that time he would have been "riding different trains." This might be a subpar performance, if it's not good find the Kronos Quartet's version:
youtube.com/watch?v=uyLfrQhPR5A

I guess maybe not so similar, but definitely an inspiration on Julia Wolfe is Glass' Einstein on the Beach. This is a really massive (~5 hours long with all the repeats) work, but I'll just post one of my favorite parts:
youtube.com/watch?v=pn_T_77JM8g

Maybe also some parts of some Adams operas? I'm not so familiar with them, but maybe this will appeal to you:
youtube.com/watch?v=f8Bd1U2SqaM

>The pure movement that I've found that I like is less focused on virtuosity and more focused on things like balancing symmetry/asymmetry in large ensembles, trying to imply geometric shapes, or playing a lot with varying degree of leg extensions.

Sometimes. In ballets like In the Middle or some of William Forsythe's other ballets it can be a show of athleticism as well. Others attempt to capture a primal emotion. Some stuff like Wayne McGregor's can be an attempt at making something in a new way that has never been tried before. For instance he made a ballet almost entirely by just giving vocal instructions I believe and he has no formal ballet training yet he is one of the biggest choreographers in ballet right now. It's almost hard to classify one single meaning of pure movement.

As for large ensembles, are often used as almost a moving backdrop, a way to set a scene. One of my favorite things is when corps de ballet (that's what an ensemble is called) is dressed in all black and they move as a huge crowd.

>Do you just think that ballets with more narrative are more accessible and audience pleasing than ballets with less narrative, in general?

Narrative ballets are definitely more accessible than abstract pieces. This is because even though an audience might not be able to appreciate all of the different technical aspects they can still get invested in the characters. It's similar to visual art, realism is easier to "get" and abstract art can run the risk of becoming a little too high minded for it's own good.

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>It's similar to visual art, realism is easier to "get" and abstract art can run the risk of becoming a little too high minded for it's own good.
With a few notable examples I think I agree with you.

This is exactly what I meant. Although classical ballets have some duds (see my post about Sleeping Beauty) they are still easier for the average person to appreciate.

This doesn't mean there are no good ballets coming out now though. Neumeier's The Little Mermaid is great as are Christopher Wheeldon's ballets and John Cranko's. They are all definitely worth a watch if you ever get the chance. San Francsisco Ballet is one of the best companies in the world and the performed the Little Mermaid a couple years back on PBS so I'm sure the recording is out there somewhere. I highly recommend it.

bump

(Sorry if this image is considered NSFW)

he's actually inhaling really really hard

That's even more gross

I what's most gross is that he has the mouthpiece entirely in his mouth.

This whole picture is just one big mess

The girl has improper posture for that trumpet she's holding. Disgusting.

I just want to let you anons know that this was a good thread.

This the ballet dancer here again. I would love to get it going again. Do you have anything in particular you want to discuss?

The overwhelming predominance of homosexuals in dance?

I realize this could be bait but I'll respond anyways.
There's actually a lot less than you would think. I actually started dancing because a girl I knew needed someone to partner her and a lot of the guys I know started so they could get closer to girls. If you're a straight guy in ballet it's a pretty great gig. You're surrounded by girls in good shape wearing skin tight clothes and you get to partner them all the time. As a guy, you also get your pick of the lot because you are often so outnumbered. Of course, this makes me sound kind of creepy and by the time you're a professional nobody really cares anymore, but as far as recruitment goes you do end up with a lot straight guys. I'm still in ballet school (most people can't go pro until 20) and out of the 25 guys in my class there are 2 or 3 gay guys (one is questionable). This is higher than average outside of dance, but not a ridiculous amount. It's more of a stereotype than anything

> underrating Haydn

I get what you mean though. Put on your own concerts with the kind of music you want

I definitely don't dislike Haydn. On one of the old threads, I made a big deal about artists sometimes being derisive of older art/artists while at the same time having a lot of respect for them.

Papa Haydn and the like are sort of like your backwards grandpa, it's important to listen to him, but don't be convinced about what he has to say about harmony and orchestration.

Anyway, I'm going for a run but I'll be back in around an hour. If anyone wants to ask me any questions about classical music/opera, I'd be willing to answer.

While we're coming out with confessions about exaggerating our backgrounds (if only by omission), I'm just going to say that I'm not a professional composer (I'm not even really very active anymore), but I have been performed, went to music school for a while, received commissions from professional groups, things like that. I've also played in orchestras, chamber ensembles and pits for operas/ballets, too, in varying levels of professional status, so I can answer some questions about being a classical performer, as well.

Ballet dancer here again. I'm wondering what you can tell me about classical guitar. When I was younger I learned electric and I'm moderately familiar with that but recently I've been listening into some stuff with classical guitars. Such as this:
youtube.com/watch?v=OYy5W7mMRWA
I can't remember any other examples because a lot of stuff is on the local classical radio station and I'm not great with names. My biggest problem might be that I haven't found a single piece I didn't like so far. I feel like I shouldn't like every piece on classical guitar and I think I'm more a fan of the instrument than the songs themselves. Do you have any recommendations for pieces as well as how to determine what makes some songs better than others? In other guitar pieces I can usually determine skill and other things but classical is something I am very new to me and I'm still not a hundred percent familiar with

Also, I've been calling it classical guitar but I'm not sure that's the right name. This band is more of a jazz-fusion group than others that I've listened to with the guitar in it

I'm not that educated on classical guitar myself. I can sort of post a few pieces in a number of different styles that come to mind, but not that much else, which is what you're asking for. To me, classical guitar has always sounded really virtuosic and I think I might have the same problem you have with it. Guitar also seems kind of a localized thing, it really never took hold with composers outside of the Spanish-speaking world.

>as well as how to determine what makes some songs better than others?
I don't think there needs to be a heuristic guiding what you do or don't like, lol. Why is this a source of anxiety for you?

Anyway, I'll give you a few guitar pieces that I've found that I like:

This Bach lute suite has always been a bit of a favorite of mine since it was (later?) rearranged into a very common cello piece (the 5th cello suite):
youtube.com/watch?v=m-BW0Jk2H4o

This piece is very nice:
youtube.com/watch?v=HyqFVzva6PY

This is technically an etude (a study, a teaching piece), but it's very pretty:
youtube.com/watch?v=sdaPoUNk5R8

These are probably the most famous guitar concertos:
youtube.com/watch?v=ic3XTt7FNfQ

youtube.com/watch?v=ye-FvKCZp3s

There are also really good guitarists like Stepan Rak who are worth checking out:

youtube.com/watch?v=tCjAKZwjs1s

Umm, in terms of more modern sounding music, here are some examples:
youtube.com/watch?v=1eMkv10qmKo (it blends in a lot with this one)
youtube.com/watch?v=FpWyFSBX7-Y
youtube.com/watch?v=qVNuchg0gkQ (if you listen to anything all the way through, this one is probably the one to listen to imo)

Yeah, I'd agree with it being in a classical style.

Composer guy here with a question back for you.

How long would you say it takes to go from "I don't know how to do a plie" to being able to functionally partner someone?

I just started taking ballet lessons (maybe or maybe not because it seemed like an easy way to meet women), and I kind of want to know an approximate time frame to track my progress.

Thank you for the list I'll listen to it as soon as I can.

>I don't think there needs to be a heuristic guiding what you do or don't like, lol. Why is this a source of anxiety for you?

I'm not sure, it might be the little bit of /mu/ in me speaking. I guess my main concern was being able to determine quality. I was having a harder time figuring out was was good and what was not in classical guitar than any other music and that was a little bit worrisome just for being able to choose what to listen to.

Awesome! It's always great to hear about people getting interested in ballet, no matter why. Firstly, I am going to say that it depends on you're age, how physically in shape you are and the quality of your teachers. If you're relatively young, in good shape and you have some really high quality teaches it should not be too difficult. If you're missing out on those categories it will be a little harder. This is in part because partnering is a very different technique than other parts of dancing. For me when I was 15 it took me about a year to go from not knowing jack about partnering to being the best partner in my class and I would say a year or two is a good bet for most student I've met. Do you mind if I ask you what you're situation is, I might be able to guess a little better? You don't have to be specific just approximations and I understand not want to give up information online. Also, are you taking open ballet classes or structured classes?

Also I want to clarify what I mean when I say partnering has a different technique. It is still very helpful to know other parts of dance because you are helping the girl to dance but you yourself are doing things that would be unrecognizable as ballet if you did them on your own. Most of the great partners I know aren't nearly as good of dancers as the lesser partners I know. It's necessary to know ballet before you partner but the two are not exactly directly correlated. I would almost say being strong is just as important as knowing the fundamentals of ballet

t. Partnering is my "thing". All dancers have that one thing they take the most pride in, for some it's turns, others it's jumps and for me it's partnering.

I just realized I misused "t." because I left it in from before I rewrote that last part. Just ignore it

>it might be the little bit of /mu/ in me speaking.
All Veeky Forums boards are toxic, but I think /mu/ has the most bizarre culture surrounding validation. I wouldn't worry about what you're listening to, as long as you like it.

So, as far as fitness:
I'm 22, I'm in excellent shape (long-distance cross-country skiier), but I have some flexibility issues in relation to a hip injury that is starting to get a lot better (I touched my toes for the first time in 2 years last week!). I find that ballet helps a lot with that issue, actually.

I really don't know the quality of teachers that I have. I like them, but I'm not really sure what their qualifications are. When I bought my shoes, the woman at the dance store told me that they're a good school, though. Right now I'm just taking drop-in classes twice a week there.

I know that I'm planning on switching schools when I get to intermediate level, since there's a school that has instructors who come from big-name ballets like Bolshoi and NYC Ballet near me, but they don't offer any beginner courses.

So that's pretty much my situation.

>All Veeky Forums boards are toxic, but I think /mu/ has the most bizarre culture surrounding validation. I wouldn't worry about what you're listening to, as long as you like it.

I only go there for music recommendations and occasionally when something gets released now but I definitely regret having spent the as much time there as I did but I learned a lot about different music I wouldn't have otherwise so it's not all bad.

>I'm 22, I'm in excellent shape (long-distance cross-country skiier), but I have some flexibility issues in relation to a hip injury that is starting to get a lot better (I touched my toes for the first time in 2 years last week!). I find that ballet helps a lot with that issue, actually.

You sound like you're in a great spot as far as being ready to start. Skiing is great for getting leg strength and running will give you the stamina most dancers lack because ballet class is anaerobic. Your hip problem could restrict you as far as turnout goes but the fact that you are aware of it means you will be able to get over it faster.

>I really don't know the quality of teachers that I have. I like them, but I'm not really sure what their qualifications are. When I bought my shoes, the woman at the dance store told me that they're a good school, though. Right now I'm just taking drop-in classes twice a week there.

That sounds good. I'm just going to throw in a recommendation for shoes though. Firstly if you don't know how to sew I highly recommend learning that. Secondly for shoes the two brands I recommend are Fuzi and So Danca. So Danca shoes look good but are pretty poorly made which can make them uncomfortable and make them not last as long. Fuzis are extremely well made and mold to the feet very well. I recommend buying them a size or two smaller and tearing out the insole (the insole is only glued down on the edges so it can bunch up and get uncomfortable, also it loosens up to sewing in the middle to make it a little more comfortable) but that's my personal preference for my feet, everyone's are unique. That being said, if I were you I would avoid Sansha shoes like the plague. They are poorly made and look awful. Their stitching always comes undone and they look like bags on your feet. A word of warning though, good fitting shoes will always wear out faster than bad shoes. Unfortunately, this is just the way it works. If the fabric is thin and the shoe is tight enough to look good you will wear a hole in it faster. Fuzis usually last me about 3-4 weeks of 30 hours per week.

>I know that I'm planning on switching schools when I get to intermediate level, since there's a school that has instructors who come from big-name ballets like Bolshoi and NYC Ballet near me, but they don't offer any beginner courses.

That sounds like a good school and having both Bolshoi and NYCB probably means they won't be super dogmatic. Remember though, those two companies in particular are very stylized. This means often, they will put an emphasis on how something looks before the basic technique. An example of this is that NYCB has all dancers pirouette from fourth position with a straight back leg. This is extremely difficult for beginners and I (personally) would not recommend doing it until you are at least highly intermediate leveled. If you are interested in partnering however, you will need to do something outside of these classes because as I said earlier it is a completely different technique.

>Your hip problem could restrict you as far as turnout goes
Actually, weirdly enough I have almost perfect turnout. My hip problem mainly affects hamstring flexibility.

I'll definitely keep these recommendations in mind, I have Angelo Luzio shoes right now and they really hurt the center of the balls of my feet for some reason. I also don't like how they look very much, but it might just me.

Any tips on looking for opportunities to do dance outside of class? I honestly want to do ballet more and try to progress quickly but it seems like my options are pretty limited.

I'm not super familiar with Angelo Luzio shoes other than that they're made by Bodywrappers, who makes really high quality tights. If they're uncomfortable I recommend looking at the suede at the bottom of the shoe as well as the insole. Since everyone has different foot shapes different shoes will look good on different people. I have high arches so shoes that mold to my foot look very good on me.

For dancing outside of class I would recommend talking to your teachers. Approach them after class one day and mention that you are interested in dancing more. Studios rarely say no to guys. A lot of studios from my hometown would let guys take partnering classes for free. It also depends on the level of the school. Now I'm at one of the biggest schools on the East Coast and they would never let a non-student take partnering class but the studios I went to before I moved would have welcomed you with open arms. Make sure you think about how much time or money you would be willing to commit before talking to them though. If you're taking two classes now, would you be willing to take four. That is an amount I would probably recommend for you If you want to get better faster. Also, if you can take structured classes I would recommend that. You will get more individual attention and specialized curriculum.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try talking to the teacher tomorrow and see what she thinks.

As far as a time money commitment, I'm finally making big boy money and don't really spend it on anything, so I don't think I'm that concerned about it. I don't do a lot of stuff outside of work, either.

Yeah, four classes is kind of what I was thinking I'd like to do ideally, anyway. Thanks for the advice.

One last piece of advice for partnering class. Be nice and confident. These are the two most important things. No matter how good you are at other stuff, your first partnering classes are going to suck. You will be awful. The only way to get over this is to keep working and be nice. Be super nice so that girls will want to partner you even though you're the worst in the class and keep working so you won't be the worst for long. I cannot stress this enough. The only reason I got to where I am was because I was partnering my friends and I loved working with them. Even before they became my friends though, they knew I was less judgemental than the other guys in class. This meant they wanted to partner me even though I was awful. Don't lose sight of your goal though. Once you do become a great partner the girls will love you (you said that was part of the goal). Girls will actually fight over partners and I've (accidentally) ended a few friendships because I partnered girls too many times which made her friends jealous. Just be nice and keep working and you'll get there. It took me about a year and a half but I also had zero strength when I started so you'll have a head start

Alright, thanks a lot. Idk if partnering class is necessarily even an option available to me at this point, but it sounds like a lot of fun.

It's a ton of fun. It's my favorite part of dancing and I highly recommend doing it if you get the chance. Also I wanted to warn you how awful it would be at the beginning so you wouldn't get discouraged. I have multiple friends who almost quit dance altogether after starting partnering, now they love it and take as many extra partnering classes as they can

Well sucking at something is no big deal for me. I've pretty much submitted to the fact that I'm going to be awful at it for at least a year before I can really do anything.

Great, it sounds like you're ready. Do you have any other questions? I always like helping ballet bros

>Do you have any other questions?
None that I can really think of right now.

I just wish people were more interested in these threads, but I guess there isn't enough opportunity for memeing.

That's true, it would be nice if we could get more interest on the arts here. This is some of the best discussion I've had here in a couple months though so at least there's that.I'll be keeping this thread open so I can listen to some of the music. If you think of anything just post it

>I get what you're putting down though. I dated a very serious student dancer and she'd always scoff at my compliments when I'd go to see her shows and give me corrected versions of how I should compliment her.
because the spirit of dancing school is to be tough. it enhances the fantasy of merit of the teachers as well as the pupils

The guy who has been posting about ballet here. The dance community is pretty harsh on themselves and each other but I don't quite agree with your diagnosis. I'd say our specific versions of compliments is a type of elitism and a way to weed out the uninitiated. To compare it to /mu/ (just because I've mentioned them a couple other times in this thread), there is a specific way of talking about music so you can be identified as patrician. You have to avoid mentioning social or political commentaries, feelings and many other things when talking about music there. I'd say this is what it's most like.

I'd also add that the harshness is necessary in order to be successful. You do not become a professional by only showing up to class. You have to give it all in ballet class and then work out and stretch outside of class if you want to reach the top. If anything you are showing just how dedicated you are by being hard on yourself and those around you

girls who do ballet are whores

>there is a specific way of talking about [ballet] so you can be identified as patrician.
Yeah, I'd say this is mainly where the compliment corrections came from.

She was also a really learned/pedagogic person, so she had very objective standards about what would be "offensive" and what would be "correct" to say certain situations, which got tiresome. But I imagine she thinks I'm the same way with music.

I noticed you had the same tendency over here I learned pretty quickly that the best way to deal with the whole thing was just to give her flowers and a kiss then joke about her needing to take a shower.

Hey, by the way, you said that it would be good to look at the suede on the bottom of my shoes, are there any modifications that you'd recommend making? Maybe I should ask my teachers about it?

Yeah, I do have a tendency to do that. It's almost unavoidable unfortunately. I think that's a big reason why a lot of dancers often date outside of dance. While it is nice to have someone who empathizes with what you are going through because they themselves are doing it too, it can become too much. Many dancers don't have the choice because dance is so all encompassing. Also, it's not necessary to be a dancer for empathizing with dedication to a pursuit.

>But I imagine she thinks I'm the same way with music.

I think anyone who commits themselves to something is going to end up accepting the academic manner of talking and thinking about it. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to watch dance as someone who did not know what to look for. I don't know if I would enjoy it more or less.

I always tear the insole out of my Fuzi shoes because they are glued down poorly so they bunch up under the ball of my foot. I also sometimes sandpaper the suede on the bottom but that is more to get rosin off. It might work though if there is a lump in the suede itself. I'm not familiar with Angelo Luzio shoes so I can't testify to their quality but I know my So Danca shoes occasionally come with lump in the fabric under the ball of my foot. There's no way to fix this other than making sure your shoes are good before you buy them or taking a couple classes in them to get used to essentially having a rock in you shoe (I've found it not as hard as it sounds, just taking suffering through a little bit of discomfort to acclimate yourself to it)

>I think anyone who commits themselves to something is going to end up accepting the academic manner of talking and thinking about it.
Pic related.

>So Danca shoes occasionally come with lump in the fabric under the ball of my foot.
This seems to be the case with mine. Big, asymmetric lumps in both feet. Aw well, I guess I can live with it.

It'll take a little bit of getting used to but eventually you won't notice it. If Angelo Luzio shoes have lumps and you don't like how they look I would recommend trying some new shoes. See what they have at stores near you (if you live in/near a city there should at least be a couple). I recommend Fuzi for all around, So Danca for look and Grishko for durability and quality. I don't think I've ever seen a store with Grishko though and So Danca shoes are pretty rare. I would try on as many as possible for the one that works best for you but these are the three I recommend