North Korea

That's not great, but it could be way worse.

Relative to African areas where witches are considered a legitimate threat and most people life to 50 North Korea is relatively okay.

Its still fucking shit man.

They believe that outside world is even worse because of US enslaving men, killing women, eating babies and so on. So in their eyes it's better to just live in huts than to risk US getting control of True Korea.

>people defending north korea
lmao is this the usual Veeky Forums contrarianism on steroids or what

Aye, but shittiness alone isn't enough to cause
a revolution.

>shit being marketed at you is just as bad as being killed for not loving the party enough

Why are commies so delusional

North Korea is ranked as a medium nation on the Human Development Index, no one has defended it as such but it is simply not accurate to make it out to be an extreme example of a shit country when in fact it is pretty average.

It's only surviving because the U.S. and China give it food aid despite the former being its so called mortal enemy. Look at the pictures you can find online of Rural NK and tell me they're not some of the most depressing shit you've ever seen.

>People live in blocks of 5 or more usually, there's little to no public transport, either you take a bike or you walk everywhere. The more rural areas have dirt roads and no plumbing, heating, or electricity and people frequently resort to living in straw huts in some areas. Your only real hope for advancement was to move to Pyongyang and hopefully get a job as a party member or working as a tour guide for an agency.
This. the country is shit for any heodnist.

t. some pasty white boi

there are too many loyalists in the military.

It can't be called comunist country anymore. It's just a despotic monarchy. Only connection with comunism is their name.
> Peoples
> republic of
> North
> Korea

I wasn't saying it's as bad, maybe I didn't articulate that point very well.

What I'm saying is mass-survaillance isn't a product of North Korea being North Korea, it's a side-effect of technological advancement. We're just fortunate enough to have an elite who aren't particularly interested in people saying rude things about them.

m8, you can see depressing hungry people right now if you walk down the busy street of any major city.

They don't even pretend to be communist anymore, they've removed all references to communism from the government.

Not even close to the same scale. Those people have places to care for them, that offer them food, shelter, activities, things to do and programs to better themselves. North Korea has almost none of that, especially in the most desolate of areas.

Are you really comparing the situation in North Korea with the homeless populations in major cities?

>>literal slave labor camps
because if they rebel not only themself but their whole family would end up in one of those

I wouldn't say that's true, whilst North Korea fucking sucks there's definitely some effort to alleviate the poverty.

I swear, he looks better with a beard

The ruling class is the armed forces that's why.

That fat little turd is just there as a sideshow while the generals run shit behind the scenes.

No, I'm just pointing out that you can use poverty to demonize any country you want (as even the North Korean government do) because it's everywhere. It's simply not an argument.

To be fair not even the CIA believes the stories about trans-generational concentration camps.

At what point do people stand up against tyranny? At what point does the average man just say "fuck this shit" and throws it all away? Is there a silver lining?

It seems like in the case of North Korea its not ever going to happen without foreign instigation.

i respect North Korea.
i'm not a commie but ateast they try something different then the capitalist globalist economy that most countries have. South Korea is pretty much Japan 2 the electric boogaloo.
Totalitarianism is the ultimate redpill

Not coming from the government that's for sure. Almost all of it is due to the work of NGO's that are limited to distributing U.S.-Chinese aid In the more neglected communities. They provide other basic services, but the red tape surrounding working as a non-for-profit in North Korea is unbelievable.

Yet another failed communist revolution.

>mfw the only successful communist revolution ever has been Somalia

The Somalian state still exists, it's just claiming a country full of armed tribals that don't want them there.

People have to know there's a better way.

North Korea has been successful at preventing enough people from finding out that free-enterprise is superior to keep the masses from revolting.

Population is underfed and pretty poor. The army is well equipped. But because a very large part of the population believes or seems to believe that they're living in paradise it's very dangerous to spread rebellious thoughts, and rebellion can't even take root. I doubt that people who want to rebel dare to share those thoughts to anyone but close friends and family, if they even dare that, for fear of betrayal.

When the advancement of society starts to outpace itself. Bourgeois revolutions started happening because the nobility were becoming vestigial and useless compared to the power of the merchant class as society developed. However North Korea is not developed at all, the state there is just as powerful as ever and so there is no way to get rid of it from the bottom up.

Here's what will probably happen
>A Kim eventually comes into power that actually wants to change the country and open it up to the Weat
>His generals consisting of old hardliners decide it's time to depose him and the country splits in half, the people supporting the Kim while the military supports the hardliners.
>NK erupts into civil war
>The South uses this to its advantage, breaks the armistice, and invades NK.
Chinks do nothing because by that point they're sick of Nk's shit too. United Korea soon after.

Proper Communism has never been tried.

>To be fair not even the CIA believes the stories about trans-generational concentration camps.
I wouldn't be suprised if the trans-generational camps where a myth but can you please post a source?

Chinks will keep supporting NK until American troops leave South Korea.

If there's still American troops in South Korea were they to try and invade the North China would invade right back.

I love how communists thinks this is a good excuse.
It's just another proff that communism is a fantasy.

But why would he want to open the country? He is pretty much god and he can do whatever he wants, so why would he want to risk losing that?

>China would invade right back.
"no"

And the South doesn't even really want to reunite.

>It's simply not an argument.
It's the fact that, compared to its Southern neighbor, the country is clearly in a far worse state of affairs that makes it relevant and important.

It's also because of how much of a contradiction the country itself is, being its essentially a fascist dictatorship disguised with Marxist iconography that has essentially not changed one iota in the 50+ Years since the armistice. It's an international pariah because of how unbelievably backwards it is, and how it stands out even compared to its Chinese and Russian neighbors in terms of utter destitution.

Because he (unlikely as this would be) actually cared for his people and recognized that working with the West is the best option in the long term?

The argument isn't that NK is better than SK, it's whether North Korea is bad enough to warrant a revolution to the people living there.

North Korea is a shithole. But is it so terrible that it's worth risking revolution? No, there's far worse countries out there than North Korea and even they're not in danger of revolution.

>implying Modern China would threaten to actually start a legit war with the U.S.

The South China see shit is just trolling you know? It's basically then testing the waters to see the hat they could get away with. China has nothing to gain from invading Korea.

>working with the West is the best option in the long term?
Then he's an idiot and I hope he'd enjoy getting Iraqed.

They did it before, they'd do it again.

What? Iraq was a result of not working with the West and pissing off everyone in the region.

> if he cared about his people.

Iraq has been working with the west for the past while now.

And it's worse than it was under Hussein.

It's the natural progression of mankind.

Communism is a science.

And oil, don't forget about oil. Without it nobody would care about what's Saddame doing.

>this post

Tips fedora

> they did it before
yea, 50 years ago. World has changed m8.

NOT AN ARGUMENT

And China is still not going to want a heavy US military presence right on their border.

Whilst things are more economically open than before the one thing that hasn't changed is as far as China goes the US is still the competition.

Not for the Kurds, but generally yes, that's not because of being open to the West though.
Oil was a big factor, but pretty much everyone wanted Saddam gone at that time anyway. He had pissed off just about every European diplomat and was surrounded by enemies that wanted him dead. No matter what your opinions are on the war itself, you can't say he played his cards well and was just minding his own business the whole time.

Yeah, and China and the US aren't stupid enough to let some two bit despot being deposed into a shooting war.
Especially since beijing and pyongyang aren't exactly BFF's now.

>And China is still not going to want a heavy US military presence right on their border.
Then they can make a deal with SK to demilitarize the zone between them.

Chinese politicians since how have been very cautious about the use of the army. They're not like Russia or America that just throws it around whenever they want. They push and prod and see what they can get away with.

So you think that China would go in war with US just becouse of little border friction?

Since Mao*

They're not exactly BFF's. But the nature of their relations is irrelevant, what's more worth considering is North Korea's strategic interest to the Chinese.

>Yeah, and China and the US aren't stupid enough to let some two bit despot being deposed into a shooting war.
Yes and this is why a second Korean war would never happen without competing foreign support being totally removed from the peninsula. Or if one side came out at a clear and overwhelming advantage, as of yet neither side can outgun the other so impressively to make unification worth it.

He was getting relly cocky, but that wouldn't be that big of a problem. He just needed to keep the oil prices low and everyone would be his friend.

The bigger question is if the US would go to war with China to support South Korea. Here in the west we take support for South Korea as basically self-explanatory, but in the event a second Korean war were to happen it seems like the US would be better off pulling out of South Korea than to get involved.

>Then they can make a deal with SK to demilitarize the zone between them.
Why would they give up their greatest bargaining chip to counter US presence in East Asia?

Sure, they could try and negotiate a deal. But you can undo a deal, having North Korea on their side is a decisive and concrete source of negotiating power. To give it up is to give more power to the US and their aligned states.

The only way I can see them doing it is if US presence in the South was negotiated away.

>The only way I can see them doing it is if US presence in the South was negotiated away.
That's what would probably happen if that were the case.

Aren't there like binding treaties tying America to SK?
Sorta like how America is stuck with defending Japan.

Once technological advancement leads to the end of scarcity then you will see, comrades.

Stop being counter-revolutionaries now or you may be the first against the wall.

Traitors to the Proletariat will not be forgiven.

No mercy to cowards and traitors.

He was sanctioned repeatedly by the EU, UN, Israel, Turkey and half of the Arab league. His mental state was increasingly coming into question after the whole Blood Quran incident. The only reason he survived as long as he did post war was because everyone was terrified of a Shia revolt supported by Iran (Or a Kurdish revolt in Turkey's case).

Well the SK has advantage in technology, logistics, naval power, air force, supplies. NK on the other hand has more men...that's all.

They are absolutely isolated and have made a religion out of servitude.
They obey due to the same reasons a 12th century christian peasant from northern europe accepts feudal servitude.
youtube.com/watch?v=YGGjDfQroAc

The only people who could change the course of the nations are the militarymen, but these get kept in line because kim jong un the godhead of this dystopy executes high ranking dissenters gruesomely.
Like that one time he fed his uncle alife to rabid dogs, or that other time a defense minister got blown up in a gory mess because he fell asleep during one of the countless military parades.

I mean as in China vs. America which is what the situation is really all about.

Of course if foreign powers were removed from the equation SK would absolutely crush the North.

I'm pretty sure America can outgun the Chinese still.

>> 1155348
Just replace SK with US and NK with China and nothing changes.

>Like that one time he fed his uncle alife to rabid dogs, or that other time a defense minister got blown up in a gory mess because he fell asleep during one of the countless military parades.

Source on both of these? I find it hard to believe he's done shit this outrageous in only 4 years of being Chairman.

In a land-war right beside China the US would be fucked.

Realistically, both sides would get utterly rekt and come out to a bitter stalemate, with China just barely edging out if it uses all its manpower in one go.

>unopposed
kek

The chinese would be equally as fucked.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
In a conventional war nobody could defeat US. And don't forget that US wouldn't be alone, EU, Japan and NATO would be on US side.

found the hedonist

>SK would absolutely crush the North.

I dont think so.
The norks are starved, desperate and dont value the lifes of their soldiers much, while the southkoreans have superiour technology and firepower it would be devastating for their morale to shoot human waves relentlessy, while the north koreans will exploit the psychological horror of this brotherwar ruthlessy.
Espeacially childsoldiers can make fanatical opponents.

Id probably would be a bit like the Iran-Iraq war.
Saddam was prepped up by the americans and had (for middle eastern standarts) a great army absolutely superiour to the iranian forces.
The Iranians however used human wave tactics and used children squads (3boys one antitank-mine) to bust horrendous amounts of saddams tanks.

I've read here that, outside of its major cities, South Korea is pretty damn bad as well re: poverty in rural areas.

worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/03/22156917-kim-jong-uns-executed-uncle-was-eaten-alive-by-120-hungry-dogs-report

The chinese told it the west.

>brotherwar
literally only old people still remember a united korea, I doubt most young SKers give a shit.

You are posting on Veeky Forums, you are a hedonist too.
Get off the computer and go work, idle hands are the devil.

Well, you need to dehumanize your enemy in order to shoot large amounts of him.
That gets harder if he looks exactly like you and speaks the same language.
Maybe thats why they are placing robot sentries at their border.

youtube.com/watch?v=mZF-qXpEz8U

I didnt thought about the airforce though.
Its not believable that the norks could do much in the air.

>That gets harder if he looks exactly like you and speaks the same language.
doesn't seem to have stopped all the civil wars.

If they couldn't beat China in the first corean war, there's no way in hell they could do it now when China has gotten astronomically more powerful.

They wouldn't even get close to SK. SK air force and artillery would destroy all railroad and their naval forces would make D day styled invasion near NK capital. Or they would jyst assasinate Kim.

>the needless cruelty = STRONK meme
the only reason you believe this is you can't imagine anyone would govern with methods that are literally worse in every way.

it's not like people break down and give up defending their homeland if it happens they have to see some shit doing that. meanwhile north will coup itself at the first sign of instability.

>they couldn't beat China in the first corean war, there's no way in hell they could do it now when China has gotten astronomically more powerful
literally what
they're fucking small potatos compared to the US, even if they have "improved".

They got more powerful but less united. They couldn't use the same tactics as they did in 50s. Peole would dissegre with helping NK and they would protest against it.

Are you implying the weren't potatoes in the Korean war? They were barely better equipped than rebels yet still fucked the western counter-invasion anyway.

There are simply too many Chinese people for the US to even come close to beating them. Especially since now they're much better trained and equipped than they were like 60 years ago by an order of magnitude.

>Second Korean War
The "First" Korean War isn't over though user. So how can there be a second?