Cyrus or Alexander? Who was more based?

The Turk?

Actually most iranians and specially the ones in charge of the place value more their islamic past (and specially it's poets) than the achaemenid one. It's very different with the diaspora, of course.

>Alexander
>Greek

He was Macedonian slav you dirty half-turk gipsy.

Go back to sucking off Germany for money.

Wow...
back to maybe even Cyrus is a meme pushed by post-exile Jews, duh! He conquered Babylon, sent the Jews home, and gave them the money to rebuild the Temple.

What Kool Aid did you drink?

Yes, 300 is indeed a movie I have seen before.

Wasn't bait, Cyrus has been receiving ridiculous elevation over the past decade. People have been trying to portray him as this great uniter and leader of civilization. He was just another despotic jackass in a line of despotic jackasses.

That is kind of sad as their "islamic past" has barely anything to it. Even if they have to lie through their teeth at least Cyrus did actually do some shit during his lifetime.

Calm down mate, Alexander wasn't a slav. Only someone from Russia would ever convince themselves of this in a vain attempt to tie themselves into history.

>When I was in grade 6 I put margarine on my penis and made my dog lick it off. That was the first time I ever heard anybody speaking Greek.

Top fucking kek.

Did a brown boy bully you in school or something? Btw, Alexander was macedonion, dip shit.

Gold.

>great uniter and leader of civilization.
He was.

>I think it's obvious.

That you're an armchair general and a Neet?

>Modern Macedonians are the same as Ancient Macedonians

Please stop while you are ahead.

To a delusional Iranian whose entire knowledge of the man consisted of a Wikipedia article summary, maybe.

...

>Alexander wasn't a slav

Slavs are far more related to Alexander than you Turk/Albo rapebabies.

Go cry into a "gyro" you culture-thieving arab.

>meme
>Jews
>Kool Aid
>/pol/

Your killin' it with the buzzwords tonight, senpai. All you need is cuck and maybe autistic to complete the set.

Okay, I'll bite. What was "despotic" about him, exactly? Outlawing slavery? Freeing the Jews?

He united the middle east on his own and was the leader of one of the most influential civilizations. This is fact.

>Iranians
>rape babies

>Iranians

I was talking about the delusional WE WUZ MAKEDONIANS "Greek"

I'm not Greek you stupid motherfucker, but Slavs attempting to claim Alexander's legacy are the most delusional bunch of fucking idiots since the African American historian movement trying to make Hannibal out to be a black man.

Go ahead and keep calling me a turk though, I don't even like on the damn continent.

Actually the history of islamic persia is amazingly interesting. It left a beautiful legacy too.

Definitely bullied by a brown boy.

Nowhere near as bad as half-turk/albanians trying to claim to be ancient Greeks, or God forbid, ancient Macedonians.

And yes, you're clearly some butthurt Greek or Greekaboo.

Alexander was Greek.

Ancient Macedonia =/= Modern Macedonia

Ancient Macedonia was largely considered a Hellenized society and Greek. Modern Macedonia is not but wishes it was.

You are coming off as a delusional asshole right now with all this
>YOU FUCKING TURK RAPEBABY
>YOU CULTURE STEALING ARAB

Like holy shit man, calm down. No one in this thread is probably from Greece or Macedonia.

I imagine it would look better as a parking lot, frankly.

By the way, ancient greeks completely loved Cyrus. I'll say than even more than iranians themselves, considering that Cyrus didn't make it into their oral epics.

>Alexander was Greek

You wish, Nikos.

>Macedonia is not but wishes it was

The same way modern Greece wishes it was actually Greek instead of Turk?

Not true and antecedal at best. Sassanid history is more relevant to modern Persians then Achaemenids.

>Greeks loved Cyrus more then Iranians himself
Not true.

Our ancestors and their descendents, modern Iranians, still title Korush as "The Father" for a reason. But it is a fact the Greeks seemed to universally appreciate Cyrus as well.

Seems you're just trolling for the sake of trolling then.

You haven't provided any arguments whatsoever, just inane insults and memery.

At least explain your position and the reasoning behind it if you don't want to look like some retard from /pol/.

Now you're just being edgy, my friend.

>Sassanid history is more relevant to modern Persians then Achaemenids.
How?

>Our

Intothetrashitgoes.jpg

>Cyrus is a meme
How is he a meme exactly?
>He didn't conquer Babylon
How is defeating their army and inflitrating the city's fortress to bypass its defenses not conquering the Babylonian Empire?
>He sent the Jews home
Not exactly. He said if any Jews wished to return to Judea, he said the Persians would encourage any Jews who wished to stay in Babylon or elsewhere to provide money to help finance their neighbors exodus back home. And yes he financed the rebuilding of the Solomon Temple.

What is your rebuttal, stormfront?

What do you mean, "How?"? They are better known the Achaemenids, they are better understood, left more relics, inscriptions, and the modern basis of current Iranian and especially Persian society is mostly reflected from the precedents left by the Sassanids.Ardashir and Shapur are praised in the same capacity as Cyrus and Darius. In some ways more.

t.reddit poster.

Cyrus is literally absent from post-alexandrine native iranian history. Both zoroastrian priestly history and local oral history forgot about him. The Sasanians, obsessed with their ancestors and butt-devastated about the hellenic invasion of the empire, forgot about him.

Go read on the subject. And by read on the subject I don't mean the wikipedia article on Cyrus, go read on actual works by scholars about the exact subject (there's plenty considering it's very specific).

I imagine it's because of the events leading up to the Arab invasions.

You still haven't provided any logical explanation for any of your points, even /pol/ usually makes better arguments than this.

Even as far as bait goes your posts have been total shit.

*better known then the Achaemenids for centuries

Nope, I just genuinely enjoy the appeal of a Cathedral better than a Mosque. I also enjoy a parking lot more because it has a tangible use for me to utilize.

Granted, I've only been to about 6 mosques total in my lifetime, but I've yet to find one where I didn't think the land would be better served for something else entirely.

There is a reason people go to Europe for tourism and not the Middle East (except other Middle Easterners, of course).

There just really isn't anything over there I'm interested in seeing, the past few times I've been to the Middle East (most recently Qatar) were fucking horrendously awful/boring.

We fundamentally disagree that these cultural artifacts possess an inherent value.

>reddit is now the "racist" site
>Veeky Forums is the site for good bois who dindu nuffin

Holy fuck someone get off me this wild ride.

>Cyrus is literally absent from post-Alexandrine native Iranian history.
Wrong. The Sassanids name Cyrus multiple times throughout their records that we know, especially in Ardashir and Shapur's inscriptions at Rustam.
>Both Zoroastrian priestly history
Wrong.
>local oral history
Wrong. And fun fact: in most parts of modern Iran to this day, oral traditions have lasted since before the Seleucids took power when it comes to poetry and folklore.
>butt-devestated
Nice buzzword.
>forgot about him
They did not as I explained above.
>wikipedia article
I don't use those much at all.

Please bait better.

>I think a parking lot looks better than that mosque

Seems you simply have a chip on your shoulder regarding the "middle east".

Writing off an entire region's history for no reason is /pol/ tier retardation.

Why project that on to pre-islamic Persia though?

And if you have no interest in anything to do with the middle east, then why come to this thread at all?

1. Who are you quoting?
2. Why are you so autistic?
3. How is the internet at large treating you, /stormfront/?
4. Were you the autist who thinks there's some kind of conspiracy to prop up Cyrus and inflate his legacy?

Strawman harder.

I'm more confused as to why he thinks "the Middle East" is propping Cyrus up.

Literally the only entity that claims Cyrus as part of their history is Iran.

I've yet to see any Arab, Turk, or for that matter, any non-Iranian Muslim, claim Cyrus as part of their history.

In fact, I haven't heard anyone claim Cyrus as a part of "Middle Eastern history", it's literally just Ancient Persia.

Pal, who said anything about mosques (or comparing them to cathedrals, by the way)? There's both religious and non-religious heritage.

Edgy.

What's more interesting is that if anything, due to ethnic and religious tensions between Iranians and non-Shia Arabs especially, many Iraqi historians in particular are attempting to subvert and challenge Cyrus' legacy.

Its just a retarded /pol/ tier shitposter who thinks all middle eastern rook the same and think the same.

1. Utilizing greentext has a variety of uses, not always for direct quoting but sometimes simply for implications or even extrapolations!

2. I don't feel I'm autistic, nor do medical professionals, but who knows? Maybe you are licensed professional with more qualifications at long distance internet diagnosis.

3. So, first I'm from reddit... now I'm from stormfront? Could we at least have some semblance of consistency? If it was /pol/ then stormfront that would be a logical progression of thought but you seem to be jumping all over the place with your assumptions as to what groups I associate myself with.

4. I don't know, I haven't posted to that effect but I certainly agree with the notion that is an active effort by Middle Eastern historians to push both their perceived history and perceived accomplishments harder within the international arena in order to assert legitimacy as a global actor.

i.e. Iran isn't a batshit insane rogue state, look at this great cultured past we come from! How could we bad guys? Alexander was the bad guy! Cyrus is the real hero!

They are attempting to change the narrative, now whether we should agree if the new narrative is more accurate?

I don't know, I don't think so. Maybe you do. To each their own. I don't think Cyrus deserves to be elevated to the status people are talking about him in this thread.

You don't know the meaning of the word.

>the "narrative"
Yep, literally retarded.

Now imagine that as a shopping center where families could access local resources or goods.

Where did I say anything about "racism" in any of the context the first place? So pretty much a classic "put the words in someone else's mouth they didn't say" here.

An excellent rebuttal, friend. Well reasoned.

>Anatolia is Turkey

REEEEEEEEEEEE

>asks for response
>gets response
>moves goal-posts with "T-THAT ISN'T WHAT I EVEN MEANT ANYWAY" without addressing any aspect of the post.

Sorry, I thought you wanted to have a discussion. If you'd rather just shitpost this thread into oblivion, I'm down.

>Middle Eastern historians

It's literally just Iranians who claim Cyrus, if anything Arabs and Turks would want to diminish Cyrus's image.

>Iran isn't a batshit insane rogue state

What does this have to do with their pre-islamic history?

You sound like Frank Miller, trying to trash a country's history just because you don't like their current incarnation.

>Alexander was the bad guy! Cyrus is the real hero!

Neither are "bad guys", least of all Cyrus. There's no "hero" and "villian" in this comparison, both people were hundreds of years apart.

>They are attempting to change the narrative

From what? Cyrus was never described as "bad". Even the Greeks loved him.

What you're doing is trying to rewrite Cyrus as some despotic warlord, when all of the available evidence suggests the opposite.

>Half your history is just foreign domination
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iran

Iran already has a lot of those, no point on start selling goods in museums when you already have good looking shopping centers.

It's actually what makes their history interesting, to be honest. The survival against all odds.

>narrative
>"History has to be defined the way I subjectively view it"
>"There is no room for change, evolution, or new discoveries that challenge old precedents at all, I won't allow it"

Also why are you autistically identifying the every day Persian with their questionable government? Or falsely equating modern Iran with Cyrus and his dynasty? Do you really have this much mental gymnastics going on in your head?

You are no different then an actual Neo Nazi or tumblr SJW who wants to change things without any actual evidence, precedent, solely because you feel entitled to believe so.

The government has turned Islam into a meme and Iranian patriotism as it actually exists among regular people is largely based on pre-Islamic symbolism and identity.

I never realized meme-movies triggered Veeky Forums so damn hard.

Show me on the Spartan where Mr. Miller touched you, user?

Seriously, you guys get that it was a total Hollywood flick that wasn't meant to be a 100% word for word historically accurate retelling of Herodotus' account?

It was just meant to be a fun macho action movie about Greco-Persian wars.

I imagine Veeky Forums to be that one super serious friend who can't enjoy a movie AT ALL and will vocally make that known to EVERYONE present if it strays away from the source material in any way.

Isn't that the same for most groups of people, really?

Half of China's dynasties were started by foreigners (Yuan, Qing, I believe there was one started by Tocharians in antiquity).

Russians were all Mongol/Turk vassals for centuries.

Anatolian "Turks" were ruled by Greeks and Persians for centuries.

Arabs were just a backwater dominated by Romans and Persians for centuries.

And all foreign powers that have ruled Iranians were either assimilated or destroyed. So what makes Iranians so GOAT at surviving where as most other ancient people were cosigned to oblivion?

Also:

>over 4 centuries of Iranian intermezzo power breaks the Abbassid caliphate's power and fractures their influence
>"half under foreign domination"

That's a bit of hyperbole.

Alexander is actually portrayed in a very positive light in the iranian national epic.

Oh no, I meant an actual shopping center. Not some shitty Bazaar with tiny little stands of garbage knick-knacks, user.

Somewhere you could buy a sofa, a meal, a TV, clothing, and a book all within 50 feet of each other.

>Tearing down ancient/historic buildings for modern decor

Fucking terrible idea desu.

>So what makes Iranians so GOAT at surviving where as most other ancient people were cosigned to oblivion?

They are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. They don't care that their country is a literal shithole, their people are oppressed, and the entire world thinks they are a rogue state so long as they can continue to eek by with some semblance of an existence.

In that sense they are very similar to North Korea. Cowards and rats are the ones who always live through war, user.

When ISIS starts tearing down Roman shit, I get mad too, user.

This kind of stuff though, they are probably just doing us a favor.

The issue is when retards like try to pass off movie bravado as historical fact. Practically every Ancient Persia-related thread has one retard who gets their arguments from 300.

Not to mention that for most people that movie was their only source for their knowledge on Ancient Persia.

If the Iranians wanted their own shopping center, they would have built one by now.

Are you complaining because Iran doesn't look like America?

So tell me, why are you ass-blasted by that, then? You clearly don't seem to give a shit about Iran or the Iranian people, and all of your posts reek of autistic butthurt.

As for their shithole status and rogue state status, the same could be said for Russia in the 90s. I doubt that stopped the Russians back then from being proud of their history.

>Median Empire
>Achaemenid Empire
>Arsacid/Parthian Empire
>Sassanid/Neo Persian Empire
>Tahrids
>Saffarids
>Samanids
>Ziyards
>Buyids
>Safavids
>Zand
>Pahlavis
>not Iranian

Who are you trying to bait here?

You literally can build all that in a "shitty bazaar". Not kidding.

But I don't know if they're 50 feet of each other because I don't use american meme distances.

Did a Persian cuck you of your girlfriend or fuck your sister? Why are you so singlemindley hostile about Iranians?

>I hate Alexander because I read a book about Cyrus the Great that told me he was better.

If you let me know the title ill give it a read man.

>doing us a favor

Who is "us", exactly? Does the existence of a bazaar in Iran really make you that butthurt?

>I hate Cyrus because I have some retarded complex involving Iran

>I love Alexander because he was a strong hwite man who BTFO sand-people

I can shitpost too, user.

You still have yet to explain why Cyrus was a despotic tyrant.

Kill yourself

You asked why they were so good at surviving despite everyone hating them. I gave you the answer. It wasn't me being "ass-blasted", that is the literal reason Iran and North Korea continue to exist today.

They have no qualms about being unscrupulous/brutal as fuck. Even Russians and Americans are somewhat beholden to international outcry.

The USSR was never a "rogue state", it was one that disagreed with US Foreign Policy. Iran is considered a rogue state by the world at large. Most EU countries won't even open trade with it or normalize relations despite the Nuclear deal.

No one, but it is alright if you guys want to keep responding with buzzwords like
>autistic
>bait
>ass-blasted
>/pol/
>literally retarded
if it makes you feel better, I mean it doesn't really deliver a lot of content to your posts but this is Veeky Forums we are talking about after all and this thread is already a shitposting hub.

>Who is "us"
The people who are eventually going to glass that entire area with Nukes and recolonize it some 50+ years later.

Only if you'll be by my side when I go, love.

If we compare the two, its hard to gauge here. Cyrus the Great like said defeated three of the four world's greatest military powers who were all in alliance united against the Persians once the Median Empire struggled to suppress the Persian Revolt. Cyrus was leading armies since he was a teenager and was targeted for assassination by his own maternal grandfather, the last Median overlord and king. In span of 20 or so years he created the largest empire in history, enacted a policy of peaceful integration, autonomy of subject peoples, no religious or cultural interference, and the creation of a true "universal" society.

He's well regarded due to his legacy as a statesmen and administrator and respected for his military achievements as well as his famous words: "Soft lands breed soft men". His status, legacy, and accolades were so great even when Persian and Greek entity was at its height, the even the Greeks seem to consider the epitome of a just king to be Cyrus as the standard. His reputation and standing was so great that Alexander idolized Cyrus above all other men, Greeks and Macedonians included.

Alexander was truly an amazing conqueror and general but he lacks the qualities that made Cyrus comparatively endearing and unique as a historical figure in such a bloody period of time in Antiquity.

>entity
*enmity

t. Stormfront

>Iran is a rogue state

Which again, has nothing to do with their ancient history. Which again, confirms my statement that you're simply ass-blasted about modern Iran.

Which is strange, because nobody in this thread is claiming modern Iran is good.

Ah, I see, you're a /pol/ memer. Nobody is glassing anything Cletus, this isn't Civ V.

You're still doing that racist shit of trying to equate the current Iranian regime with its civilian population and ancient Iranians like a fucking spastic moron. Explain how post-Sassanid Iranians "cut off their noses".

Outside of the government, even modern Iran is doing quite well unlike North Korea. Whose people are almost universally malnourished and stunted developmentally as a result. The government is shit I agree, but the people are not bad.

ITT:
2-3 Arrogant and Ignorant Europeans who have no fucking idea what they are talking about.
1 Delusional Slav who is convinced someone else is a Greek/Turk.
2+ Middle Eastern posters calling everyone cucks and asking if brown men have slept with women you know before.
2+ Angry bitter white assholes/douchebags from /pol/ who seem to have an axe to grind.

This thread right here is why we shouldn't even have these fucking discussions. I hate any kind of Eastern History thread because this is what they devolve to and both sides that participate in these debates have the most apparent bias I've ever seen in my life. It's disgusting.

You should all fucking kill yourselves. Yes, all of you. Don't try to distance yourself from each other or say "oh but it was X who started it!". You all contributed to making this thread fucking shit, I hope you are god damn proud of yourselves.

>mfw

I'll say it's not really necessary or benefical to compare both. After all, they're remembered for very different things and they were praised in antiquity for very different reasons.

They were both conquerors and kings, but for ancients Cyrus was the paradigmatic King and Alexander the paradigmatical Conqueror. Very different qualities.

>Outside of the government, even modern Iran is doing quite well unlike North Korea.

This. I dare the butt-blasted jew in this thread to go and try to do couchsurfing in N. Korea.

Now now, there are a few insightful comments buried in this heap of shit.

At the least, this thread was a bit more interesting than the shitty religious threads.

I never called anyone a cuck, I asked the one dude whose clearly shitposting/trolling why he's so angry about Iranians/Persians in general.