>>1170862

The Holy Spirit wouldn't tell you to do anything outside of scripture. In fact, if the Holy Spirit does tell you anything, he's most likely to tell you through scripture.

Quakers say you don't need Scripture, you just need the Holy Spirit. Do you hold Scripture as dogma?

Yes, but regarding it as infallible or as dogma is not essential for salvation, so it isn't something I'd argue for if I wanted to convert someone, though I'd highly encourage it

So you don't think you have to subscribe to any morality, for salvation?

No, but morality WILL follow after salvation. But the morals and works themselves have no power to grant salvation.

I acknowledge the existence of a God, as the source and totality of all this is, can be, was or will be. But other than that I cannot genuinely proscribe any other attribute or state of human agency to it - it seems dishonest. The greatest crime would be to take God's name in vain or suppose to stand for his interest or dictate His will when we cannot comprehend his motive, for these reasons I cannot accept the idea of an unerring Bible - there seems to be no weight to it.

Confusingly, I have felt what I assume to be Jesus's presence during a time of great need; but I am not certain of it, as I do not completely trust my own senses, and it may have been a fabrication of a tired and unsettled mind.

Despite my irreligiousness I do not have an outstanding problem to following a moral system based upon christian society - as it is simply what I was born into and am used to, but I'll be rebellious towards ideas such as chastity prior to marriage, and the concept original sin, as per the reasons above. They are not convincing to me personally.

So those who are saved, have no free will to be immoral anymore?

Do you think that if someone believed in Christ, but Mary was a harlot and begot him from an adulterous affair, it might impact their salvation?

Do you think the world would be a better place if people never had sex outside of wedlock?

but *taught that Mary

>So those who are saved, have no free will to be immoral anymore?
No, we are slaves to God, so we act accordingly

>Do you think that if someone believed in Christ, but Mary was a harlot and begot him from an adulterous affair, it might impact their salvation?
Implying they're already saved? No, no sinful act can take away our salvation, we've already been sealed by the Spirit to inherit righteousness.

>No, we are slaves to God, so we act accordingly
So you don't believe in free will? or rather, you believe you lose it after you are saved?

I believe in free will, but I reconcile it with Romans 8:28
If we do good, God caused it through his Holy Spirit. If we do evil, it was our own choice freely, though God, in sovereign control of everything, permitted us (not caused. Permitted) to commit the evil because he saw a way in his infinite wisdom that it could be used for our benefit.

So you agree someone who is saved, can be amoral? They have that freedom, yes?

amoral? As in being completely without morals? No, because the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is always followed with a renewed conscious. But as in still committing evil acts? Yes, we will always commit sins as long as we are still in the flesh

They can act without any concern for morality though, yes?

No, because the Holy Spirit will always renew our conscious and give us that concern for morality

Consciousness of morality doesn't necessitate concern for it anymore than knowing the law really makes you more eager to follow it. I'm sure the Devil knows wrong from right very thoroughly.

He doesn't just make us conscious of it, he convicts us and guides us

But people still have the freedom to willfully reject that guidance, yes? You obviously do every time you sin.

Not to be drawn into a long argument : As this is speculation I could not with any honesty say wether it would be or not.

For instance there are too many variables; it is simple to imagine that under this scenario - if everyone was compelled in this manner to abstain then surveillance and the application or threat of force would be required to be delt upon the entire human population to keep everybody in line and to ignore their base instinct.

I hope you find what you're searching for.

yes

...

I'm not saying "required", I meant if everyone from their own will would not have sex outside of wedlock

Then they have the freedom to willfully reject all morality, yes?

>Then they have the freedom to willfully reject all morality, yes?
The freedom to? Yes. But will they? No. Not even atheists reject all morality

Plenty of atheists do, who do you think Max Stirner is?

Why won't they?

>Why won't they?
The conviction of the Holy Spirit

By "conviction", which Biblical term are you referencing?

John 16
13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

But you can reject that guidance, yes? You say they won't even though they can, but what are you basing this on?

I never said they won't reject that guidance. You keep implying I need to go to this extreme of either "the Holy Spirit makes us perfect" or "we can still reject every good work and still be saved". The truth is in between, something we'll reject the Holy Spirit's guidance and sometimes we won't. The important thing is that God has produced some change in our hearts for the better.

I'm saying those who have been saved, can reject the Holy Spirit's guidance altogether, yes?

They can, but they won't. That isn't how salvation works.

How do you know they won't?

Because scripture says a genuine faith always produces good works

You realize, of course, that Scripture doesn't distinguish between faith and belief? It's the same word in the Bible.

so

So demons have genuine faith in Biblical terms.

Not in Christ as their savior

They certainly ask him for mercy and consider him their Lord. How do you know they don't see him as their savior?

On the one hand there may be less single parents and broken families.

On the other hand there will be people who find they are sexually incompatible after they are married and have sex for the first time.

They only wanted to avoid immediate torment. They didn't have an actual heart of repentance. The devils have already been judged anyway so salvation isn't available for them

Doesn't sexual compatibility grow, rather than is or isn't with the first time?

Then it looks like you will have to expand your list to include contrition and having not already been judged, even though the behavior of the demons is not consider an impediment.

The Holy Spirit does all the work. The Holy Spirit provides the contrition and etc etc

I think you're trying to twist loopholes into what I'm saying instead of actually understanding the points. Either that or you're very dense TbhwyFam

The Holy Spirit provokes the contrition, but you're the one doing it. Surely. Contrition is an extremely, extremely important element of Christianity, and you are the one doing it, even if the ability to do so is a gift.

>Constantine thread
>55 replies
>8 posters
this whole scenario