How the hell did the Celts manage to expand so far?

By prehistoric standards, certainly. The Rhineland zone or "blue banana" has been the center of European habitation at least since the introduction of agriculture.

A lot of non celts are also R1b natively.
The celts are just a strain of the indoeuropean invasion, not its entirety.

'no', it wasn't morie densely inhabitated than Southern Europe

>The Irish have more genetics in common with the Portuguese then anyone.

Absolutely false, the closest genetically to the Irish are Brits and other Western Euros like Northen French people.

OK but legitimately, most of it wasnt expansion, they really just moved.
When there was a serious enough reason too leave (famines etc.) they just went.
Where they were met with resistance, they just BTFO'd the guys and went on. How the fuck do you think they ended up in Anatolia?
They displaced some People of course, but in the end tehy also assimialated them, or in the case of the Galatians,(more or less) coexisted with the other cultures and powers of the regions

Thats not very far of a distance. Keep in mind that the most commonly used map projections make Europe appear way bigger then it actually is and that in reality Europe is roughly only the size of British India. Thats a small fraction of the land that the Incas expanded into.

>densely populated

'no'

There were Indo-European people of some kind in Ireland in the Bronze Age.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26712024

This.

Ireland was initially inhabited by neolithic farmers, but during the bronze age Indo-Europeans invaded the island and mixed with the natives.

Chariots.

Jesus was 1/2 Celt

Inaccurate map

>The Irish have more genetics in common with the Portuguese then anyone
'no'

Post accurate pls

there were never celts in britain or ireland or central europe

Celts originated in Central Europe

There are no US forces in Iraq.

Whats the bars meaning?

La tene/Hallstadt/Urnfeild weren't celtic

show me where britons or hibernians were ever referred to as celts, I'll wait

>densely populated
Total GLOBAL population at 500 BC was about 100,000,000. So Europe was NOT denesly populated

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history

>La tene/Hallstadt/Urnfeild weren't celtic
Who were they then?

>show me where britons or hibernians were ever referred to as celts, I'll wait
It doesn't matter what they were called, they spoke Celtic languages

...

>La tene/Hallstadt/Urnfeild weren't celtic
What, that was literally the core of Celtic culture.
>show me where britons or hibernians were ever referred to as celts, I'll wait
Celtic language, Celtic objects, Celtic culture

>show me where britons or hibernians were ever referred to as celts, I'll wait
OP pic.

Metallurgy? The Celts had the most advanced metallurgy in ancient era, after they were defeated by the Romans Romans adopted they metallurgy, simple

There weren't people in the Americas before the Europeans arrived

>its a british nationalists intentionally confuse themselves on the definition of words to reinforce their 19th century political agenda episode

why didn't they just use their superior metallurgy to defeat Romans?
are Celts stupid?

Ethnic British historiography predates Queen Victoria by a couple of centuries at least.

Dude, the Celts battled Romans many times and even raided Rome a couple of times but they never wanted to control the Italian peninsula, so after the pillage very often they simply returned home
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Allia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brennus_(4th_century_BC)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vercingetorix

Imagine Vikings, but on land.
>Aneirin of the Lugoae, my Son.
>Yuo are man now. You must chose profession.
>Will yuo be like me, a humble farmer and till the soil or hunt the woods?
>Or will you join Tancorix in his expeditious raid to the south? Much booty and great fame one can acquire there, on the price of blood and death tho.

Eventually this warband would gather enough people that it becomes a separate tribe themselves. Case in Point: the Celts in the Balkans who ended up in Anatolia and picked up Greek/Anatolian women along the way.

If you know Warhammer games they're literally orks: they have their tribes and shit but if a big warlord goes on a raid, warriors and volunteer males from multiple tribes flock to that guy's shit for treasure and adventure.

Such lifestyle made them ideal mercenaries desu.

What's up with the isolated settlements right in the middle of Iberia and Anatolia? How is that even possible?

>far

That's really a small area user. It would have been impressive if they had expanded to Persia or beyond

See >Iberia
"Hey we need cash, lets raid those Iberi farmers. Would be fun."
>Anatolia.
"Hey we need cash, and the Balkans suck, let's take our whole three tribes a trekking across Greece and steal their shit."
"What do you mean we can't go back and that the Macedonians have sealed the passes? Howell, further south we go!"

They spoke languages related to celtic languages. Theres no such thing as celts anyway, and celtic languages are just the result of people whose native languages were non-indo-european adopting their own ve4sions/interpretations of latin and greek

Illyrians and basques who got indo-european culture and language from illyrians

Do you have a single fact to back up that claim?

The Galatians are the only isolated branch, Iberia borders Gaul after all.

Genetically they had CHG unlike Basques

Are you the same retard who said English is descended from Latin?

Brennos the Gaul (the second one, the first one sacked Rome).

it is descended from latin, thats not disputable

prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/mythsofbritishancestry
>Central Europe during the last millennium BC certainly was the time and place of the exotic and fierce Hallstatt culture and, later, the La Tène culture, with their prestigious, iron-age metal jewellery wrought with intricately woven swirls. Hoards of such jewellery and weapons, some fashioned in gold, have been dug up in Ireland, seeming to confirm central Europe as >the source of migration. The swirling style of decoration is immortalised in such cultural icons as the Book of Kells, the illuminated Irish manuscript (Trinity College, Dublin), and the bronze Battersea shield (British Museum), >evoking the western British Isles as a surviving remnant of past Celtic glory. But unfortunately for this orthodoxy, these artistic styles spread generally in Europe as cultural fashions, often made locally. There is no evidence they came to Britain and Ireland as part of an invasion.

>Many archaeologists still hold this view of a grand iron-age Celtic culture in the centre of the continent, which shrank to a western rump after Roman times. It is also the basis of a strong sense of ethnic identity that millions of members of the so-called Celtic diaspora hold. But there is absolutely no evidence, linguistic, archaeological or genetic, that identifies the Hallstatt or La Tène regions or cultures as Celtic homelands. The notion derives from a mistake made by the historian Herodotus 2,500 years ago when, in a passing remark about the “Keltoi,” he placed them at the source of the Danube, which he thought was near the Pyrenees. Everything else about his description located the Keltoi in the region of Iberia.

The Celts punched through Macedon so hard they ended in Anatolia and fought for themselves, the Seleukids, the Ptolies, and even the Jews.

They also looted Delphi along the way.

on the face of it, looking at the languages on the european branches of the indo-european language family, it does seem convincing that they have their own roots in PIE independant of latin. But once you start tracing these languages back to their earlier incarnations, they lose their uniqueness and just start to look and sound more and more like green and latin

youtu.be/ar_dU_OKF3w

many commenters on this video are native speakers of languages like portugese and greek and remark that this language is clearly a close relative/derivative

>it is descended from latin, thats not disputable
wat? its closely related to italic languages, but not descended in any way from them

>Druidic
>Celtic
>Empire

>there is absolutely no evidence, linguistic, archaeological or genetic, that identifies the Hallstatt or La Tène regions or cultures as Celtic homelands
Good lord, Oppenheimer is such an obnoxious cunt. His shit is intelligent design-tier dishonesty, half-truths and contempt for real academics.

your mom has dropped you on the head, that's not disputable

Only 100,000,000? That sounds really unlikely.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population_estimates

>That sounds really unlikely

Why?

Is this that same faggot who thinks Indo-European languages don't exist?

Anyway, as far as I know the general opinion on the Celts today is that they didn't expand out of some small homeland into the rest of Europe, but rather that Central/Western Europe as a whole was their homeland. Indo-European speakers did migrate into Central Europe, giving rise to the Celtic language family, but that family then spread more due to close contacts between western European peoples at an elite level than due to migrations of invasions. Basically, a common elite culture had already existed in Western/Central Europe in the Bronze Age, and what we call 'Celtic' was the result of this culture adopting an Indo-European language and other cultural aspects like mythology.

This doesn't mean Celts didn't exist, it just means they probably had more nebulous origins than people used to think. Of course they didn't 'identify' as Celtic, but that's irrelevant.

>he actually admitted it
Great, the last step is to adopt a trip. Please do, it's for the benefit of the board.

Do you even know what the study of linguistics is? English has been influenced by Latin several times throughout its history and I don't deny the West Germanic language may have had undocumented influence from Romance dialects in the late classical early medieval period. But the idea that English is descended from Latin is absolutely absurd.

This. One of the more standard groups of Indo-European branches are Celtic-Germanic-Italic, Germanic being the most mixed, a satem-centum hybrid possibly mixed with Finnic or some other non-IE substrate. Sometimes Germanic is linked more to Balto-slavic.

>what are the Alps
>what are Pyrenees
>what is the Black Forest
>what are the many major rivers and two ocean straits in that territory

>One of the more standard groups of Indo-European branches are Celtic-Germanic-Italic
Not really. Germanic is part of the Central IE group, which includes Greek, Balto-Slavic, and Indo-Iranian.

Also satemization is an areal feature and not useful for describing phylogenetic relations among Indo-European languages.

It's all theoretical and changes depending on who is writing. Greek is more readily put in a branch with Armenian than with Balto-slavic. The level of hybridization suspected with proto-Germanic or an earlier ancestor also skews the process of clearly placing it. I agree with you and consider it most like Balto-Slavic

I don't think Germanic shows any signs of hybridization.

>But the idea that English is descended from Latin is absolutely absurd.

Why? Occam's razor does away with the necessity for any other explanation.

rape

>Germanic being the most mixed, a satem-centum hybrid possibly mixed with Finnic or some other non-IE substrate.

So in other words, Germanic is a result of the native pre-indo-european language or languages of germania fusing with an interpretation of latin

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture
> It is commonly associated with Proto-Celtic and Celtic populations in the Western Hallstatt zone and with (pre-)Illyrians in the eastern Hallstatt zone.

Greeks had archaic contact with central europeans because they were part of the Hallstatt culture, although I don't agree with the part about western zone being celtic or proto-celtic. Rather this was the beginning of germanic languages. Celtic languages began in gaul, spain and iberia

'You are fucking dumb'

Trace this sentence back to Latin

I'll be waiting

english is also descended from west germanic which is also descended from/influenced by latin

> which is also descended from/influenced by latin
Ok, trace it back to Latin then.

why should I?

To prove that English is descended from Latin.

I'm not a linguist, but a linguist could show you how all those words are related to latin words. You for example is related to Vos

Related, not descended.

No linguist would agree with what you're saying.

the descent of language is all hypothetical and speculative

This is incorrect. Although we have Celtic languages on the British Isles, and many varieties of English (obviously), the genetic stock of these islands is almost the same as when the ice sheets melted, thus opening them up for habitation.

youtube.com/watch?v=vA9uM_wRIvM

prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/mythsofbritishancestry

English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh are neither Anglo-Saxon, Roman, Celt nor Viking. We are direct descendants of the original inhabitants who migrated here after the ice melted. There was a land bridge between what we now call 'continental Europe' and the British Isles.

There is very little genetic variation between the Basque people of North Eastern Spain and Brits/Irish. If you search a little, then you will understand this fact. Sure, all invaders left behind culture and languages, but that didn't alter the gene pool much. For example most of the place names where I live are Scandinavian in origin, as we were settled by Danes and Vikings.
My dialect has loads of words derived from Old Norse. This dialect is very old, and also has Celtic words. The farmers count their sheep in an ancient Brittonic tongue. (Celtic)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittonic_languages

The sheep counting system. We used to sing this when I was a kid:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera

I'm lazy for using wikipedia, but there are good sources at the bottom of the above pages.

I can guarantee that if I speak in dialect to you, you won't understand me. Even if English is your native tongue. I only speak dialect with my family and friends, and some of the shopkeepers in the nearest town. My English is an isolate.

I live in a very remote and isolated area in Northern England - up in the mountains. (pic). It hasn't changed for thousands of years. We rely on farming; mainly sheep. And river fishing. It's a desolate place, above the tree line - so that's why there are few trees in the pic.

>the genetic stock of these islands is almost the same as when the ice sheets melted, thus opening them up for habitation.
You're only ~10% related to those people. That study is wrong and oudated.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZOmp3HpAGgM

Welsh language is fused latin, so...

English language is Germanic (Saxon) and Norse (Viking) so...

I think you're just very confused, or had a very bad teacher (or no teaching).

Zero opposition.

>but that didn't alter the gene pool much.
huh. That would really be something if true. Why the fuck do you believe people would do this?

I'm guessing genetic correlation, but he didn't post enough info

>They also looted Delphi along the way.
What??

I don't know mate. Your graph shows 'linguistic and historical' sources on the sidebar.
Not genetics.
Not sure what to make of it, mate.
A source would be much appreciated.

I was thinking of doing one of those gene tests where you send away a saliva swab or whatever, and they give percentages of DNA origin. But it costs about £100 and I'd prefer to spend the coin on my family.

Also I'm fascinated by the topic of the Neanderthals and if/how/when there was interbreeding.

Pic is a flat stone. It has what are called 'cup and ring' markings. No one has a clue what they mean.
My theory is that they are ancient maps and show contour lines and water sources. But that's just an idea.
They are all over the hills near where I live.

forgot pic.

Here you go

nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/full/nature14317.html

> Your graph shows 'linguistic and historical' sources on the sidebar.
>Fig 3: Admixture proportions in modern DNA

>You will NEVER be Cían
>You will NEVER get so ass blisteringly mad that Balor, king of the Fomorians, stole your magical cow that you travel all the way to his magic tower and scale it so you can climb in the window and fuck his daughter so she can give birth to his grandson who will eventually track him town and push his shit in

Why even CELT

I think there is a big lack of qualified experts and a enormous lack of objective evidence in this thread.

Thanks. There seem to be loads of studies on this subject and many conflicting conclusions.
The further we go back in the past, the less we understand.

I'm not an academic historian, but I love history. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm a plumber. I install showers, check water pressure, heating systems etc.
I'm studying the Roman systems of plumbing. They had good sewage disposal, underfloor heating from steam, baths and so on.

There are loads of Roman ruins near where I live. Pic are Roman toilets on Hadrians wall. About a half hour drive away. I've looked at them and most of the plumbing is intact or there are traces of pipes etc.

Welcome to every thread on Veeky Forums

You probably don't even know that "Early neolithic people" in your graph have substantial Western hunter gatherer admixture in them.
See this:
Blue= European/Western hunter gatherer
Aqua green=Caucsian hunter gatherer
Orange=Neolithic farmer