Jesus was a socialist

>first shall be last
>last shall be first
>the meek shall inherit the earth

This makes sense, thank you!

He declared your wealth on earth to be meaningless in your goals to get to heaven, he said nothing about ones obligation to redistribute your wealth to eliminate poverty. In fact, he claimed the poor to be blessed with preference when god decides who goes to heaven "First shall be last, last shall be first" etc.

by that logic Marx was second coming of Jesus

pretty sure he was an anarchist during his life on earth

In a socialist society, there would be no "first" or "last" like Jesus is claiming though.

What does that have to do with socialism, which puts everybody into one category, eliminating the possibility of firstness or lastness, and which doesn't acknowledge property rights and therefore has no interest in inheritance?

Jesus is a Monarchist; Jesus is the King of Kings.

>"First shall be last, last shall be first" etc.
What the fuck does this have to do with socialism?

Wouldn't he though? I don't remember Jesus healed crippled people and held company with those at the very bottom of society. I don't remember the part where Jesus said to build walls to keep out central americans or when he hung out with billionaires. The guy was clearly anti-authoritarian and was killed by literal imperialists for stirring up the common man

Nothing, which is my point.

>The guy was clearly anti-authoritarian
Are you claiming that imposing taxes on people isn't authoritarian? Because that's what your original statement seemed like it was claiming.

>it's a X was totally X before the existence of X episode

>against imperialism
>against wall
>doesn't realize globalism is neo-imperialism to the worst degree

But in the context Jesus was saying that, he was referring to his contemporary time where there was inequality in wealth. It wasn't an advocacy, it obviously was a warning for those with power to take heed and remember that earthly status doesn't matters in the next life

Which is why he isn't a socialist.

>implying trump wants to do away with taxes

He needs money for his secret police somehow

>being this fucking autistic

Okay, you're right dude, Jesus did not explicitly state to the people of Roman Judea that nation-states, an abstract concept that wasn't going to be formulated for another 1600 years, should own the means of production and not private interests.

Fucks sake dude

When did I mention Trump anywhere? Are you retarded or just blind?

>Jesus did not explicitly state
If he didn't explicitly state it then that's not what he meant. Or are you a protestant who thinks everything in the Bible was written to be a metaphor?

You just absolutely know nothing about Jesus whatsoever. It's just astonishing people can't see right through you.

>Call everything in the bible a metaphor.
>Blame Christians for calling everything in the bible a metaphor.

Brilliant.

Catholics think everything is the metaphor; their official stance is that the big bang and evolution happened and that Genesis is a metaphor for the birth of the universe and human morality

It doesn't matter anyway because very clearly, in regards to wealth and power, Jesus thought very little of those who had much of it. Therefore one could infer that Jesus would likely advocate for collectivist economic policies as long as it didn't become an obstacle toward man's salvation

That's still stretching it, but it doesn't really matter anyway.

Could you point out how he is wrong? I am this guy
and am trying to understand both sides

I guess it doesn't does it

second two should be "Y"

All it implies is voluntarily sharing your wealth, there is no reason for it going to a central authority first. He was critical of all rulers and authority figures (which includes government) because they are at odds with God's authority. By extension he was opposed to selfish exploitation of people by each other, and his views are totally in line with socialism or even communism.

Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet. He favored a theocracy with YHWH as the king of Israel and Jesus himself as the second-in-command, with the twelve disciples directly underneath him. Obviously the government and economic systems are not the same, but looking at the rest of the bible it's clear there wasn't going to be any sort of collectivist policies going on.

He favored giving away all your money to the poor and making yourself low on the social order because when YHWH returned any day now, he would overthrow the corrupt powers in charge and place those who are at the bottom of the previous social order at the top of the new social order (still judging for morality, of course).

Jesus was a communist. His only difference is believing God to be the ultimate authority, not the state.

Key word "voluntarily"
Socialism is hardly voluntary in the vast majority of cases, which is why calling Jesus socialist is a bit of a stretch. See "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars, and unto God what is God's", which implies that he was unconcerned with politics as long as it didn't muddy Gods message.

Could you give me more a historical lesson on Jesus than a religious one that I'm accustomed to? I have heard that Jesus was apocalyptic cultist but I don't know if that's true.

What's the real story on Jesus as a historical figure and his actual, likely beliefs

Jesus said that an act of charity must come from the heart. Being forced to give money isn't an act of charity.
If anything, anything at all, Jesus would be a libertarian.

I'm not a Christian but there's no reason to doubt the scripture when it comes to his beliefs, words, etc.

Probably the best we have to go on. For another perspective you could try reading Muslim scripture on Jesus, Muslims revere Jesus and hold him in high esteem, but obviously had different ideas on his divinity.

>I have heard that Jesus was apocalyptic cultist but I don't know if that's true.
He did preach about the end of the world, and in a sense he was right, Judea got sacked by the Romans who got pretty pissed off at the Jews just being faggots and burned the temple.

Ehrman is kind of a meme scholar but his book on the apocalyptic Jesus is good reading.

Jesus is going to set on King David's throne and rule the world for a thousand years.

When everything was going right for the Hebrews after the Exodus, Jesus was their King, and they had no other.

When the Jews demanded a king, it was the beginning of the end for them.

Jesus openly advocated the Jewish people accept Him as their Messiah; that He take the throne of David; and that He conquer all of their enemies, and rule the world.

Since they murdered Him and rejected that Kingdom, we're still waiting for Jesus to do just that.

>Socialism is hardly voluntary in the vast majority of cases
Socialism in theory is voluntary no matter how many times it is corrupted it in practice.

Of course it is stupid to pin a modern ideology onto Christ because as you say he does not care about politics or exploitation and all his love is for god, but in practice his views are those of a perfect communist citizen.

Jesus is YHWH.

As an historical figure, Jesus was an itinerant rabbi, faith healer, and carpenter. He ruled over none, overthrew none, and was executed as a political favor by Rome to the Jews, whom Jesus had pointed out were abject failures in following the Law of Moses.

>typical tripfag drivel

It's pure garbage. Ehrman is pure garbage.

True, Heaven itself is a model of an ideal Stalinist society when you really think about it.

>The official stance is
>Doesn't cite a single canon law
Nice try ;)
The official stance is that there is no official stance
Catholics are required to believe in a literal Adam and Eve (although whether that means 2 literal people existed alone without any other anatomically human beings also existing is not De Fide strangenotions.com/monogenism-or-polygenism-the-question-of-human-origins/)
The big bang having happened is also not a matter of doctrine or dogma, although it does fall in line with the idea of creation ex nihilo (which is official teaching) in that it's not contradictory to it

Well then what would you recommend to understand the historical Jesus, user?

The "historical" Jesus is nobody.

The resurrected Jesus is the Creator of the universe and grantor of eternal life.

Which would you rather get to know?

Are you one of those Jesus mythicists?

>anno domini 2016
>people confusing socialism with strict Marxism
>people confusing socialism with Russian contrivances based on Marxism
o lad, to be thusly confused

Ehrman is one of the most respected religious scholars currently living. You are an anonymous shitposter on a burmese pottery making image board.

>but in practice his views are those of a perfect communist citizen
His views are kind of perfect for a citizen of any political/economic system. He is a pretty nice guy.

>socialism in theory is voluntary
Isn't any social contract somewhat involuntary, depending on how you define voluntary? Not to mention any democratic system is somewhat involuntary if you're in the minority.

He did say that people should "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's"... but did he likewise advocate that Caesar should "render unto the people social benefits"?

I only ever see extremely greedy and self-righteous people using Christianity to somehow justify why they shouldn't give anything. I've never seen these same people using Christianity as an excuse to be charitable.

He literally made a communism possible by feeding hundreds men with two fishes and two breads. Imagine if Lenin could do that shit. USSR would be heaven on the earth in no time.

Socialists want to create a new man by changing institutions and laws. Jesus wanted to remake institutions, and lessen laws, by creating a new man.

Magic men and socialism are just as realistic.

But Jesus WAS a communist.

Even if Jesus tried to force socialism into our society, he couldn't stop this cancer child.

>mfw Jesus was a national socialist
>not a fucking Marxist like liberal believe
21 Jesus went from there to the area of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that area came out and began shouting, “Lord, Son of David, please help me! My daughter has a demon inside her, and she is suffering very much.”

23 But Jesus did not answer her. So the followers came to him and said, “Tell her to go away. She keeps crying out and will not leave us alone.”

24 Jesus answered, “God sent me only to the lost people[a] of Israel.”

25 Then the woman came over to Jesus and bowed before him. She said, “Lord, help me!”

26 He answered her with this saying: “It is not right to take the children’s bread and give it to the dogs.”

Yes socialism can work when you have a homogenous population but in today's multicultural societies you are better off just throwing your money around in some hood because that's where your money will be going either way

Fuck.

Good job leaving out the latter half of that passage where he did indeed help the woman.

oh look, another pathetic christian that will twist his own religion in order to justify his outdated retarded right-wing beliefs.

face it faggot. all progress human beings ever made was confronted by conservatives. jesus was literally a tree hugging bleeding heart hippie leftist socialist who wanted to change society for good.

"it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"

he literally says that the entire bourgeoisie class will go to hell.

>implying only the rich are greedy
It's about morals user, not your social class

socialism is hardly about the weak or the meek

Of course he did.

After he had his lulz making her admit she was a dog that was worth less than a Jew.

>he said nothing about ones obligation to redistribute your wealth to eliminate poverty
You sure about that m8?
Luke 3:10-11 "And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise."

Proverbs 28:27 "Whoever gives to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to poverty will be cursed."

If you're not extremely charitable and averse to wealth, you're doing Christianity wrong.
In fact, you're doing religion wrong.

some south american socialists would agree.

Kill yourself retard

Pretty sure he was preaching a form of monarchy. Take the Lord as your savior and he shall grant you peace. Otherwise, you will suffer eternity.

The problem isn't that Jesus was or was not a socialist(he wasn't), the problem is that there's no way to justify the existence of capitalism if you're an actual believing Christian.

This
Literally irreconcilable

...

Ehrman is pure meme scholar garbage. He's the NDT of New Testament scholarship. That being said his text book is a decent intro to the field and his 'jesus existed you retards' book is also should be standard reading for anyone interested in polemics/apologetics.

based

>>baaawwwww the mean man explains why the supernatural events of the bible are not considered historically likely therefore he sucks baaaawwwww

Fascinating.

>implying apocalyptic prophet of the new millennium isn't hack writing designed to sell controversy
>implying FORGED isn't hack writing designed to sell controvery
>implying his shit thesis don't change every other year
>implying he doesn't just cherry pick to come up with his edgey thesis every book.

Besides, if you want to prove something did or didn't happen historically but you define historical facts in such a way that the event you wish to study isn't historical whats the point.

His argument in the case you are referencing is basically
>If Y then ~X
>Y/~X

>LOOK GUYS I DISPROVED JESUS

ITs shit dude. Anyone with a brain can see that that argument is worthless.

27 “Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

27 Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Does the only reason he helped her was because she was a believe
Jesus was perfectly fine with not helping them
You know that reminds me of how Germany had honorary Aryans

Nah.

His arguments aren't shit, you're mad that you're shit.

Sorry pal, but nobody credible takes the resurrection as a matter of historical fact on anything other then faith. There is no credible evidence for it and odds are that there never will be.

kek

Bible states that those who don't work but are able to are worse then scum. I don't consider that socialist.

What's the book and verse number? Thats actually a great way to shut down this meme

1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:11 We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies.

gotquestions.org/socialism-Christian.html

>waaaah corporate taxes
>waaaah regulation
>waaaah gummit benefits
kys please

>I don't consider that socialist.
I don't know it passed as socialist in the Soviet Union.

>1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Sound kind of like boomers, who vote away all the benefits they grew up with from the millennial generation and then tell us the "just work harder".

You're so fucking entitled.

The modern youth...

He was preaching a paradoxical monarchy, the last shall be the first, the first shall be the last, the least will be the greatest, the greatest will be the least. Christ's kingship is affirmed by facing the most excruciating humiliation and torture WITHOUT resentment.

Chiliasm is a heresy, my friend

Just tell them your talking away SS or medicare to cut costs

Christ is talking about humility here. If you're poor and humble, that is spiritually great, but it is far better to be wealthy and humble than poor and prideful. Poverty and being oppressed does exactly zero for you if it doesn't lead to you being humbled, and is outright harmful if you wear it as a badge of honor.