Is killing animals wrong?

>that one faggot that always says ACKSHYULLY...

Killing for utilitarian purposes is fine. Hurting or killing animals for pleasure I find to be distasteful and a huge red flag

>no plans to ever fuck an animal or anything.
I don't believe you desu

>is it then okay to fuck animals for pleasure?
depends on culture honestly, pretty sure there are a few/many sub-saharan tribes that fuck animals
or just bathe in their urine
also the Welsh

>no plans to ever fuck an animal or anything.

well, thats a relief, just dont get caught killing humans for meat

would you countas killing for pleasure?
the pleasure of eating the animal that is

Torturing animals "fur the lulz" (fucking psychopaths) is wrong. Eating them is not wrong.

I'm finding it harder and harder to think of any very good justification for eating meat, though I still eat it purely out of habit. It seems like it's one of those things that will either be offset by a scientific breakthrough or will just grow until no sane person can deny that it's unsustainable. There are a shit ton of people on Earth and they all want to eat chicken.

Not eating meat is human abuse.

That's up to our descendants to decide, and then chastise us.

>There are a shit ton of people on Earth and they all want to eat chicken.
read that as children for a second

I made the thread because a bunch of snarky faggot vegans keep telling me about the alternatives and how it is morally unjustifiable to eat meat
it'd be easy to just say
>lol whos morals fuck you
but I can't think of an adequate response

But what's the difference though, if the industrial farming of animals causes comparable suffering?

Very, very few people will deny the fact that industrial farming needs to tone down the levels of cruelty usually involved in "acquiring" an animal's meat. The idea that factory-farming is horrible isn't something vegans have a monopoly on.

Meat is demonstratably good for you though so eating it is utilitarian, regardless of whether you enjoy it or not

Yes, but the problem is that there's no way to adequately police the "cruel" actions of the hundreds upon thousands of industrial farms of animals unless you want to spend millions of dollars on it, which nobody would, because most people don't really care if an animal is screeching in terror before it's decapitated.

What's great about this matter is that you can choose yourself not to hurt the animals, stray away from eating meat.

Of course nature is cruel in itself but isn't there something unsettling about domesticating blue belgians through lives of suffering, or the industrial grinding of living small chickens.

Animal conservation is largely funded by hunters. It was Theodore Roosevelt who really kick started it.

Remember the Cecil backlash?

Now parks in Zimbabwe have to cull up to 200 lions because of over population. They call it the 'Cecil Effect'. Without Trophy Hunters paying for the privilege, the parks lose money doing it themselves, which means less money for conservation.

worldanimalnews.com/content.php?content_ID=659

Finally beef will be cheap again

But what is the problem with the overpopulation though?

I work in the meat industry and this is my stance

yes, killing is morally wrong - no matter what species we're talking about.
unfortunately, killing is what nature is all about, so it's impossible to be part of nature without killing... still, one day mankind will finally release itself from the shackles of nature and be what they think they're today: the pinnacle of evolution and a supreme being.

today we're nothing more than apes with clothes and an advanced system of language.
(but one day we the meat we eat will be synthetic and that's when everything is going to change - no hunger will lead to no poverty in a matter of decades and with money being obsolete we will finally reach our last evolutionary step)

Bait don't touch it

>chicken

naw, people want beef. It's almost a status symbol. If they wanted chicken or goat I feel like sustainability would be a milder issue.

Beef is delicious, I don't blame them.

>people still buy into the meme that mankind can "ascend" above nature if we just think really hard about it

You need to first explain why it would be wrong.

>vegans believe they are the next link in the evolutionary chain

I have yet to hear an animal argue against it.

So it's all subjective rather than objective?

Not an argument!
((And no animal that can't talk and don't walk on two legs))

I dont think you know what the subjective/objective dichotomy is about user

Yes. But it is a necessary evil in most common cases.

morals are subjective but laws exist based on the idea that morals are objective, so you are prevented from fucking animals
or some shit like that, I don't know

evil in what sense though

The needs of a society is pretty subjective depending on what culture and religion it got, don't really see what that's objective about it.

Yeah, though there is a difference between things like killing in self defense and killing someone out of your own pleasure.
Is there such a big leap between eating and fucking an animal?

How about the one value that is inherent to every culture: ie, survival and self-perpetuation?

>Is there such a big leap between eating and fucking an animal?
for one you are inside of it
for the other it is inside of you

Do animal fucking in any important way limit those two?

So pegging is immoral? ;^)

in many ways yes

Morality is a human construction, it's only value is what we place on it.

We are also animals.

Yes.

>Abdul!
>Yes, what is it Hakeem?
>I have found my one true love...It is...my camel! I cannot contain myself any longer brother, I must be with her always
>NO HAKEEM THAT IS WRONG
>What?! How can it be wrong!?
>HAKEEM WE MUST HAVE MANY BABIES SO CHILDREN MAY TILL THE SOIL WHAT ARE YOU DOING
>OUR CLAN IS ALREADY DOWN TO 4 MEN BECAUSE OF THE RAIDING FROM KAFIRS TO THE NORTH, AND YOU JUST FUCK CAMEL?

animals don't peg eachother brah that's gay

I have seen male dogs fuck each other.

with prosthetic penials doe?

No
I actually enjoy watching bullfights
It's a beautiful display of our dominion over these brutes and the strugle of man and beast
I also feel like it's one of last bits of Roman culture that exist

what about when they drug or abuse them before the fight though?
it'd be nice if they were in their prime for their death struggle

Killing them for anything other than consumption or population control is pretty waste.

does it matter?

Just as wrong as killing plants. And agriculture implies fucking with the enviroment and the indirect death of a fuckon of animals. Vegans are delusional and selective ignorants.

pegging is strictly for strap-ons

Why are you a dumb cunt. If a group of animals over populates an area thent there's less food and they end up dying from starvation in the end so to keep the animals alive you have to kill a few for the benefit of the rest

So instead of just letting nature take it's course, you kill them?

What's the point?

>being humane
>with animals
>humane
>animals

>Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the remainder.
>Millions of gallons of liquefied feces and urine seeped into the environment from collapsed, leaking or overflowing storage lagoons, and flowed into rivers, streams, lakes, wetlands and groundwater. Hundreds of manure spills have killed millions of fish.
nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/P1009ABO.TXT?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=EPA&Index=2000 Thru 2005&Docs=&Query=&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&IntQFieldOp=0&ExtQFieldOp=0&XmlQuery=&File=D:\zyfiles\Index Data\00thru05\Txt\00000025\P1009ABO.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h|-&MaximumDocuments=1&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=p|f&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=x&ZyPURL

nytimes.com/2003/05/11/us/neighbors-of-vast-hog-farms-say-foul-air-endangers-their-health.html

>“The way that we breed animals for food is a threat to the planet. It pollutes our environment while consuming huge amounts of water, grain, petroleum, pesticides and drugs. The results are disastrous.”

jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-a-livable-future/

howsabout all this shit though

Yeah I agree
The bull should be in its peak physical condition but I'm not out there fighting them so I can't complain I guess

Soy production is the main cause for deforestation in the last years, specially in Brasil, same with oil palm in Southwest Asia. I never say that livestock doesn't cause damage, but ignoring the deforestation and animal death due agriculture it's just vegan hypocresy. Nothing wrong with no eating animals if you don't like it, but there's a lot of bullshit and missinterpretation of medical studies justifying that.

No. There is not a single philosophical argument for veganism that is logically sound and doesn't just boil down to hypocrisy.

very much.

No human can live as if they were equal to animals. It's simply impossible. Veganism itself only "saves" those animals that are not slaughtered. Agriculture and crop lands endanger many species and kill several animals.

Southeast Asia*

>character defect
Spooky

Killing plants is also wrong. People doesn't feel an empathy for them but it would be a fucking evil act to kill all the plants of the world for example. Small act of killing only some plants still holds the evil of that one, some percent of it at least.

I think killing animals should be done in a humane manner whenever possible so if you can fuck them in a humane manner, yeah, I guess.

Zoophilia is legal in many western countries. Germany and Finland for example.

no! we only feel empathy towards species that have human features in a way. so apes : very much cows: yeah sorta fish: meh not so much.
plants, ants: who gives a shit. this is the basis of us feeling empathy with non humans.
we are less cruel than nature so thats something we acchieved as humans, good enough. furthermore avoiding to kill other species for food is pointless as long as it doesnt have a negative impact on other humans.

>AYY

What about pork? Why do pigs have to be so smart when they also taste so delicious? It's just not fair.

>we are less cruel than nature so thats something we acchieved as humans

Are we though? sure it might be unintentionally due to humans being quite a powerful species, but we're a main driving force of the wide scale extinction events going on.

>lab-beef

Will vegans protest it?

Yeah, but I will still eat meats.

Absolutely not. Get your testosterone levels checked if you think otherwise.

Human are part of the nature. They can ruin entire ecosystems, but so could do a bacterias given an opportunity to do so.

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian btw, but it's not very logical to base your decisions off how easy it is to anthropomorphize.

Animals kill animals, it's natural.

Go ask a predator, OP.

yes thats a problem we are changing the environment faster than would ever happen naturally. thus some animals and plants adapt and survive but many dont and go extinct.
the pace of this is the problem and there are reasons we should be concerned because many of these species could benefit us and are important parts of a functioning ecosystem.
but this has nothing to do with the direct killing of animals by humans.

yes there is no perfect state in "nature" its a constant battle that goes on forever.

cows nowadays are more genetical machines than animals

>this has nothing to do with the direct killing of animals by humans

I don't think there's too much of a difference between direct and indirect.

>muh noble savage

If their population had increased (do to inevitable advances in medicine and hunting technology) they would be slaughtering those fucking bison wholesale.

What is the difference?

But they eat them raw and on the field, humans make massive industries so fat cunts like you can sit around and shovel undeserved food into your gullets.

Its good for nobody, even the vegans are just deluded idiots who dont quite understand how and what farming actually is.

yes i agree but most people do. they dont have a problem squashing an ant or scrubbing of some bacteria but protest the killing of animals for food. And the only reason for this is that animals have more in common with us than a carrot. Everything living is the result of something dying.

Honestly, I think ants are the creatures I sort of 'respect' the most out of all the ones I know. They are pretty cool.

by that logic there is no difference between you yelling to a friend to cross the road and he beeing hit by a car and you driving the car and hitting him on purpose.

there is a difference between thinking of something as pretty cool and feeling empathy. im not saying it cant be done but without pretext people dont.

I mean that demand for a product is intimately connected with the process used to produce it.

>mfw we could already have artificial meat if people would actually put effort and money into the goddamn research

no. giving them a bad life is wrong.

if they have decent conditions sacrifice is morally justified.

Is there anything wrong with torturing animals for pleasure?

It's already happening.

youtube.com/watch?v=RU7ggZbOR6k

Yes, but we're not developed enough to recognize it yet. One day
>inb4 triggered /pol/cucks
I'm not even a vegetarian, but it's wrong to breed a semi-self aware organism for generations just to slaughter them and I hope we can get past this one day with some kind of vat-grown steak.

>morals are subjective
No they aren't