Is a Trump presidency truly historical?

That would be Clinton Bush and Obama

Nah, what he did is an achievement.
I expect his primary campaign is going to be studied by analysts and marketers alike

Only if he wins

If Trump doesn't win then in another four years /pol/ will be calling him a loser who never had a chance

Not necessarily.
Even getting the nomination is an outstanding success for a person who has had 0 experience in politics so far

Even if he doesn't win, he'll just run again in 2020.
He can just play the "I told you so" card since the country doesn't look like its going to improve in the next four years regardless of the outcome.

>he'll just run again in 2020.
He'll be 73 in 2020, I'm not sure if he'll risk it like Bernie is doing right now

I'm sure he only decided to run NOW because he realized he's getting too old to hold it off.

Maybe. Though a guy with his wealth can surely afford the care to live to his 100s.

Im glad he fucking raped the other republican candidates, and im even happier Clinton is raping sanders, but i dont think Trump will be able to beat Hillary

Even then, modern medicine still can't keep you from going senile.

>picture
I always knew Trump was really a Jihaid John Islamic extremist religious terrorist from the Middle East.

Do Trumposters even have brains?

How can you watch Dune and not get it. Worse still if you read Dune and can't get it.

I'm growing increasingly nervous that, while Trump probably won't win the presidency, in 2020 someone will come around who basically has all of Trump's nationalism and nativism, but without his over-the-top racism and misogyny. Somebody who embodies his strongman persona without being ridiculously offensive to women and minorities.

That would scare the shit out of me, because I think someone like that actually COULD win the presidency.

Have you been paying attention to the recent tussles between the two? Everything Hillary has to attack Trump with is already backfiring hard over a month before the Conventions have even happened. He's leading her.

>I'm growing increasingly nervous
>without his over-the-top racism and misogyny
>That would scare the shit out of me

This post is a joke, right?

I'd be down.

>being nervous about a Trump presidency or even a pseudo-Trump presidency

Loving every tear

That's assuming two big things: he didn't get popular based on a cult of personality, and the political climate will be the same in 2020. By then Europe will either be a lost cause or the problem would be fixed, sjw's will have petered out or have assumed direct control via Hillary's "diverse" cabinet, and IS will be long dead or just a new terrorist cell rather than actually controlling large areas. The Syrian civil war will be over and Assad will either still be in power or a puppet for him will be in power.

Only thing I can think of that he has going for him in 4 years is being anti-establishment and anti trade deals. Literally anybody can emulate that. Trump wins now or he never wins ever.

>Only thing I can think of that he has going for him in 4 years is being anti-establishment and anti trade deals. Literally anybody can emulate that.
That's what the guy you responded to is saying though. But yes, much of his appeal is his novelty.

>basically has all of Trump's nationalism and nativism, but without his over-the-top racism and misogyny
Yeah, his name was Ted Cruz, and he lost hard.

Ted Cruz lost because of his ugly, awkward face (which means a lot if you're trying to become President desu) and also the fact that he was a religious nut.

Ted Cruz is a fucking theocrat hypercapitalist conservative, he's nothing like Trump.

Anyway, Trump is basically America's Sulla/Marius. The mob has risen up and he's figured out how to play to them. This isn't the actual end of America as a republic, but it is the beginning of the end. We're gonna see some SHIT in the next few decades.

In his policies he was just a watered down Trump who pandered too much to the evangelicals.

Ted Cruz is the real conman.

Dank meme

I see him more as a Crassus. I mean, they both got their wealth from shady real-estate dealings and both want to go campaigning in the middle East. If anything maybe he has a splash of Caesar (no Pompey) because of that cult of personality. He wants to being jobs back, which was one of Caesar's imperial orders (that a certain percentage of all jobs had to be held by plebs rather than slaves).

>Crassus
You mean he's going to be BTFO in the Middle East?

>trump is Hitler!!!!!1
>dank meme

Strawman is dank too

I thought Veeky Forums was supposed to be smart, not conspiracy "the world is ending!!!1!" retards

Exactly. He might know business but when it comes to international relations he has no semblance of tact and what was once Persia will be the end of him, politically at least. He's a one-termer for sure.

>muh strawman
>help I'm being opressed

Dank autism.

>portray trump as a radical islamist terrorist in your trump memes
>pretending you know what smart is
Literally, read a book.

It's not that the world is ending, it's that it's changing. Technology has brought about a lot of issues, and the difference between developed and undeveloped countries has never been bigger. Imagine an African tribal trying to cope with 18th century London. Now imagine him trying to cope with modern Seoul.

America is still very wealthy and powerful, but their place in the world is going to be less certain as they have less of of a monopoly on trade now than they ever have. Brazil, China, and India will end up taking the bulk of that production, I think. I see America (like russia) remaining a military power long after their economic superpower begins to wane.

How politically incorrect of you

Oh no wonder this thread is so shit, Veeky Forums is fagging it up again.

It's not that hard to look at the last decade and see a serious erosion of republican values in the United States. In particular the rule of law is not valued the way it once was.

>Technology has brought about a lot of issues
There's a fat bearded German man who saw this coming over 100 years ago. The problem is there are people who are buttmad that his predictions from over 100 years ago weren't 100% accurate, and base their ideology in pure denial of the problems.

I'm not OP

It's been that way forever. It's not new.

Well capitalism can't *transition* into communism, not without a total overnight change/violent revolution.

When the workers unionize, production just leaves. That makes the population scared to unionize and collectively bargain. Also, those same people fear a strong central government solution like China has where the state controls the corporations. It's stupid not to realize we are on the brink of a new world order, but not in terms of total economic output. Plebs are still gonna be plebs, Patricians and will get wealthier, and we'll see a new class of wage slaves who live on subsistence wages regardless of educational attainment.

You're not a terrorist if you become king.

>le american prettyboy show with a small body of electorate judges

oh i am laffin

>we'll see a new class of wage slaves who live on subsistence wages regardless of educational attainment.

I think systems automation will make those wages redundant, simply nothing more than peripheral motivation.

The true engine of the capitalist system, material necessity, will at that point simply cease to turn over profit because profit itself is now meaningless.

This kind of change does not happen by violence, because it is a the kind of change that make violence itself simply unnecessary.

The funny thing about putting all the money in one place is that it suddenly becomes worthless. Cash is only valuable if it changes hands.

You should read Marx instead of strawmanning him. I'm not saying he was right, but it's the fact that people know more memes about him than his actual writings in an attempt to make him sound naive, are in themselves very naive

>Well capitalism can't *transition* into communism
Not that the manifesto should really count as a real text, but it does sum it up, Marx said a transition to socialism first.

>not without a total overnight change/violent revolution
Literally one of the points in Das Kapital. Things will get bad enough to cause a revolution. That's why there's this idea of revolutionaries. Most people actually argue against this and say incrementalism is possible, and therefore Marx is wrong. Either way, Marx considered it.

>When the workers unionize, production just leaves
Which is why he thought works should seize the means of production, and the reason fro the workers of the world unite meme, so production wouldn't have anywhere to move to.

>That makes the population scared to unionize and collectively bargain. Also, those same people fear a strong central government solution like China has where the state controls the corporations.
This is a cultural issue, and not universal at all, there are countless counterexamples, and you've introduced a false dichotomy, which is not entirely your fault, because both sides of the Cold War spread this idea of strict dichotomy.

>It's stupid not to realize we are on the brink of a new world order, but not in terms of total economic output. Plebs are still gonna be plebs, Patricians and will get wealthier, and we'll see a new class of wage slaves who live on subsistence wages regardless of educational attainment.
Maybe you should read Marx. Not as a blueprint for a future, but as an analysis of some of the problems of capitalism. Because that's about 99% the same as what Marx was saying was going to be the problem, and this was well over 100 years ago.

Except it is in fact that way. Matt Taibbi had a great article about this. The entire American electoral process has basically devolved into a huge reality show, which is why Trump has done so well, since he actually IS a reality TV star.

...

>I think systems automation will make those wages redundant, simply nothing more than peripheral motivation.
This is silly, just because you enter not-quite-post-scarcity robot world doesn't mean things will work out for you.

>The true engine of the capitalist system, material necessity, will at that point simply cease to turn over profit because profit itself is now meaningless.
This is clearly not the case. Robots will be hard coded with ownership, encryption, and technological security measures. Currently the rich get richer to buy Veblen goods. Veblen goods are only worth something because of their often artificial scarcity.

>This kind of change does not happen by violence, because it is a the kind of change that make violence itself simply unnecessary.
You're assuming some kind of trickle down effect.

>The funny thing about putting all the money in one place is that it suddenly becomes worthless. Cash is only valuable if it changes hands.
Those hands don't have to be your hands. You could be completely sidelined, just like a village in sub-Saharan Africa.

I swear to fuck people only come up with this anti-democracy "talent show" shit when a candidate they don't like is winning. Stop whining and go outside for once. People have views.

>GO OUTSIDE PLATO SHEESH

I just don't see what you're complaining about. That a candidate has to be charismatic to win? Of course that's true. It's always been that way in America and every democracy before that. Nothing has "devolved", it's how the system works. But being just charismatic gets you nowhere. If no one agrees with you then you won't win. Period. Candidates survive on charisma and win on policies. Just look at Bernie, he's the perfect example of someone who can make the long stretch by being a really convincing talker but just can't cross in first because he doesn't have the support on the issues.

Yeah I was agreeing with Marx, but I don't think he predicted automation to the level we're seeing. I was just sort of extrapolating what I thought will happen based on a Marxist understanding of the current economy.

In that case, I more or less take back what I said.

>I don't think he predicted automation to the level we're seeing.
Well over 100 years ago. He's not exactly a prophet with divine inspiration. The problem is very few people want to genuinely build on his work.

>has all of Trump's nationalism and nativism
What is wrong with this?

If you don't personally fit in with his idea of what it means to be an American. And his idea of what it means to be an American seems to be pandering to a population of people that is very unlike me.

Oh yeah, you can't blame him for not seeing the 20th century coming. It took everyone with their pants down from 1911-2001. Side note, the long 19th century is 1789-1914 so they say. I feel like the 20th century ended with 9/11. No big statements or anything to be made, I just like to have a nice endpoint.

And yeah, people are afraid of actual communism because of totalitarian stalinism and a bunch of other "communism brand" autocracies. Just like how people are soured to multi-state nationalist socialist solutions Nazis. Which is a shame, because I see that as the stepping stone to global communism and eventual planetary unification.

>It's been that way forever. It's not new.

No, just because you've never lived in a society that has civic pride doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Even in the worst years of America such as the Prohibition era and the Great Depression there was still civic participation and people actively involved in government.

Republican values have eroded over the past several decades through a mixture of public cynicism, hedonism and ennui. The vacuum created by the lack of public engagement in politics has been filled by special interests and big business, allowing for the rise of an oligarchy. America no longer has citizens but subjects.

What are your views about being american? Trump is far from a "white nationalist". Wanting fewer migrants and to respect the laws about inmigration is just common sense. Unless you want wages to drop, then just vote for an open borders candidate

>If you don't personally fit in with his idea of what it means to be an American

An American citizen. Is this hard to understand?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Vincent_Chin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kaufman_(judge)

Pretty much afraid of this. Read through the case part as well. Google if you want more details or dramatic retelling.

To be an American is to be an immigrant or child of immigrants. Everyone else being a nativist should gtfo. Except Native Americans obviously.

Open borders would be good. If you equalized the economies of North America/Latin america it would be a net benefit for pretty much every country except the US and Canada. Economic cooperation (NAFTA and a schengen area) between the US and Latin American countries would alleviate a lot of the stresses Latin American nations have. Further, China will be the consumer base for Latin American products before long.

This thread is four hours old. Do the mods just don't give enough of a shit to take a simple glance at Veeky Forums anymore?

The topic is retarded but the discussions it's spawned are worth keeping it around for imo

There's a pretty big difference between legal and illegal immigration. Being an "immigrant or child of immigrants" when talking about American culture refers to the legal process.

>benefit for pretty much every country except the US and Canada
The US and Canada aren't charities. They have no obligation to self-sacrifice for the benefit of other nations and the detriment of themselves.

>To be an American is to be an immigrant or child of immigrants. Everyone else being a nativist should gtfo. Except Native Americans obviously.
Why? This is so retarded. Countries and policies can change and open borders is just unviable,unless you dont want welfare and want to getcpaid 1/2 of what you currently earn. America is a nation of citizens not inmigrants. If you are for open borders how would you stop an Indian invasion to France for example? Or do you think that the Soviet strategy of sending Russians to the Baltic nations to kill their culture is good? This is a really naive view on the world.

How the hell is this related to Trump?

>To be an American is to be an immigrant or child of immigrants. Everyone else being a nativist should gtfo. Except Native Americans obviously.

What the fuck are you saying? That an "American" identity literally cannot exist because all Americans are descended from immigrants, even when there is a legal description of what it means to be a citizen of the United States of America?

>defending NAFTA
>defending schengen
Yes please convince me to vote against my own economic interests because Latinos can't get their shit together. Economic "cooperation" does nothing but force workers across countries to compete with each other even when different wage and regulation laws are in place.

Rome only became truly great after the republic was abolished

>How the hell is this related to Trump?
Well you must be pretty blind to the situation around Trump, and focusing only on his non-existent or perpetually flip-flipping policy platform.

>go rough up those american citizens at my rallies i dont like
>but i actually like them because reasons
>just as long as they get roughed up

Oh, I'm not American. I don't see why you would ever vote for this. You guys are just selfish. You imperialists raped central America for years and now that the car is out of the bag and imperialism isn't okay anymore you want to just close your borders with all the gold from the (figurative) Gallic wars? Fuck you, no. The Hispanic people will take back what is rightfully theirs. Honestly the white race needs to die. You are all so fucking entitled. An Indian invasion of France would be great. All the Indians with better access to education would be better off.

This is exactly like Spain taking nahua gold and tihuantisuyan silver and taking it back to Europe. You can't fucking get away with this shit anymore. Economic eqalization will happen one way or another, and it will be a net benefit for humanity in North and South America.

Truly historical in showing how awful democracy is

>tfw still voting for him
JUST

>Oh, I'm not American. I don't see why you would ever vote for this. You guys are just selfish. You imperialists raped central America for years and now that the car is out of the bag and imperialism isn't okay anymore you want to just close your borders with all the gold from the (figurative) Gallic wars? Fuck you, no. The Hispanic people will take back what is rightfully theirs. Honestly the white race needs to die. You are all so fucking entitled. An Indian invasion of France would be great. All the Indians with better access to education would be better off.
>This is exactly like Spain taking nahua gold and tihuantisuyan silver and taking it back to Europe. You can't fucking get away with this shit anymore. Economic eqalization will happen one way or another, and it will be a net benefit for humanity in North and South America.
Nice bait. But I am not dumb enough to fall for this.

>Oh, I'm not American.
Stopped reading right there.

Might makes right. Europeans and Americans can do whatever the fuck they want with their border policy dindu.

I'm a devout Catholic and I won't be voting for him, not after he insulted His Holiness.

But how do you remove kebab already in the border?

Benedict was the last true Pope though.

That's great. Have a star.

I'm Orthodox, so I really don't care.

it will cause the biggest butthurt of our time.

He flip-flops but the platform doesn't change. It's all with the same ultimate intentions. It still doesn't explain those pages.

This is desperate. Because he's staving people people off from protesting at rallies, which is an illegal thing to do in the first place, he doesn't believe their Americans? You're going to have to prove this position to me.

they*re

Fuck me it's midnight

It doesn't even matter who wins. Half the country will be massively butthurt

Kicking them out. As the jews were kicked out all over Europe. Or just removing every citizenship with anyone that has dual citizenship as Geert proposes

I don't give a shit if Francis is a good pope or a bad pope, he's still the Pope.

He's also the last Pope according to the prophecy.

>having normal citizens rough up protestors is the same as having the secret service removing them from the premises

I thought he was for American citizens? What good is being an American citizen if it just means if he doesn't want to be for you anymore he removes your citizenship?

Like Obama is last president.

It's funny how Sanders/Hillary supporters act like literal brownshirts, going to opposing parties political parties and starting fights, yet the Hitler card is reserved solely for Trump.