How successfully could Japan incorporate into the European political landscape prior to WW2? Were they seen as more legitimate and "Western" than the Ottomans?
Why were Korea and Thailand, two kingdoms in similar circumstances, unable to reach the Western standard and overcome geopolitical white supremacy?
>Korea
Occupied by Japan
>Thailand
Still poor.
Also Japan BTFO its own standing by going apeshit nationalist. The European powers saw Japan as an upstart imperialist (which it was) and so sidelined them in the Versailles treaty. By 1930's Japan wasn't considered "Western" (so thought Japan itsel) and in 37, their barbarity in the Sino-Jap wars removed them from the European idea of a "Civilized" nation.
>Legitimate
What does this even mean?
This. Maybe they would have been better respected if they'd mellowed out after beating Russia in 1905.
But why is Thailand still poor? What allowed Japan to more successfully Westernize?
>chill out
>don't invade Manchuria
>don't invade China
>try to get as close to the US as possible
>purge the ultranationalists ruthlessly
Japan going apeshit was pretty understandable. It felt that it got the shit end of the deal by siding with the allies in WWI.
Though to be fair, Japan was a member of the League of Nations which all agreed "EVERYONE, KEEP YOUR COLONIES, NO MORE COLONY GRABBING." Which Japan spat on in the 30's
Commodore Perry, and a relatively small, defensible country.
Thailand wasn't poor-poor, if you get what I'm saying, but it was carrying on modernizing in a slow and steady pace.
But Thailand was able to avoid colonization. Not many Asian states could pull this off.
The best part about Japan in WWI was how it unfolded. Literally begging Britain to join the war in order to take the German colonies and Britain shitting it's pants when Japan btfo Germany in East quicker than Britain estimated it could do it alone. It was like an almost instantaneously regretted decision by Britain.
Because Thailand doesn't have anything worth taking and if you want to fuck their women they'll gladly let you.
>Japan going apeshit was pretty understandable.
Well it was because their country was taken over by fascist retards.
>It felt that it got the shit end of the deal by siding with the allies in WWI.
Maybe if they had contributed beyond harassing merchant ships and overruning a few poorly-defended colonies they would have gotten more. They didn't do anything that Britain or Australia could have done just as easily, so considering they ended up keeping a few of the territories they captured I'd say it went well enough for them.
Fascist delusions don't have anything to do with reality.
Is this the pre-Channerian version of pic related?
>women
>Well it was because their country was taken over by fascist retards
The Japanese conservative party held power until the 1930's...
>Maybe if they had contributed beyond harassing merchant ships and overruning a few poorly-defended colonies they would have gotten more
They did exactly as asked of them and even had sorties in the Mediterranean when Britain wanted assistance there. They were not paid what was fully agreed upon.
Thailand and Japan both began to modernize about the same time, but they were in completely different situations from the start.
Japan was high urbanized, had a literate population, a kind of proto-capitalist economy, well maintained infrastructure, well defined borders, a centralized government, weak and easily exploitable neighbors, a Confucian culture of subservience to the state, and a bunch of other stuff.
Siam was far more rural, literacy was limited to monks and the elite, the economy was run by Chinese immigrants, there was little infrastructure, borders were vague, government was decentralized outside of the capital region, neighbours were colonial powers who kept chipping away at their borders, a stronger focus on local ties that state control, and a bunch of other stuff.
The idea that Japan was some kind of feudal backwater before the Meiji restoration is completely wrong. It was more comparable to somewhere in Early Modern Europe than feudal times. Siam on the other hand really was like a medieval kingdom. They were still doing pretty well for themselves and did manage to modernize to a large extent, but not nearly as well as Japan.
But the international community treated Japan like the weird kid at the playground even before their post-WW1
Why did Britain regret the decision? They wanted Qingdao?
Yes it was. Thailand was poor as shit.
Read my lips: "Poor... as... shit."
Explain how Korea and Thailand were in similar circumstances in any meaningful sense other than both being Asian just like Japan.
The match that lit the powder keg was Wilson sabotaging Japan's equality clause for fear of minorities in the States getting uppity about racial equality and fucking up his political clout when all Japan really wanted was assurance of being considered equal to the other Western Powers.
Japan just wanted to be noticed by senpai and spitting in their face did a lot to set the stage for what was to come.
Unleashed the beast so to speak. Japan was like a bull in a china shop, no pun intended, and they ended up trying leverage their position with the allies into taking considerable concessions from China. They failed due to being rebuked by literally everyone, including Britain, but it created feelings of Japanophobia with Britain and the other allies by how Japan acted during the war (initially with consent from Britain).
>Japan was like a bull in a china shop, no pun intended
Japan managed to take a couple of barely defended outposts, setting the precedent for their WW2 performance.
thailand was pretty well off by asian standards at the time, they're also mostly wealthier than korea during most their premodern history
That was bullshit anyway and a good thing it wasn't passed.
Japan begging for equality while treating other Asians like blank space for their Imperial dreams? Fuck them.
Confirmed for knowing nothing about nip psychology. Once the west spurred the equality clause Japan started to see itself as the rightful Asian hegemony. There was a legitimate desire among the military rulers of Japan to forge a new Asia free of the whites.
kek you would rather be colonised by westerners aren't you flip?
>pretty understandable
Why?
They only fucked themselves in the long-run over by doing that.
That's because Filipinos have no pride in their race. Both the Japanese and Chinese have realized that Asia will never know true peace if the Western world controls the majority of East and Southeast Asia. Taisho Japan was constantly treated unjustly by imperialist European powers who did not respect Japan and the resulting Japan knew the Westerners would never accept a truly strong East Asian nation. The situation is even worse nowadays but under the guise of globalism these matters are quietly shoved under the rug and China is the aggressor for being an Asian country that is anti-Western. Paradoxical, isn't it?
Japan never wanted to genocide the Chinese or Koreans, far from it. They only wanted to purge China of its heavily Western influence so they could guide the Chinese and other Asian countries to be brothers in the struggle against Western imperialism and communism.
>legitimate
I don't think you know what that word means.
reminder that the greater east asian co prosperity sphere was started as unified attempt to get rid asia of western colonialism, which your country also took part in
I know this is probably bait but I agree with you on that a few governmental higher ups thought that was the case and had genuine desire for Asian unity. The grunts and most military commanders did not give a fuck however and just wanted raping lootings n shiet.
It was not accepted as an equal or anything like that, Europeans and Americans were convinced that the Japanese was an inferior specimen copying western technology. initial successes by Japan in wwii came as a complete shock to western observers
Japan didn't treat filipinos so great, but had it not been for them, there's a small possibility your country would have remained a territory of the U.S
Muricans killed of more filipinos than the Japs did