Is Pascal's Wager a legitimate argument?

>Is Pascal's Wager a legitimate argument?
Not even Pascal meant it to be a legitimate argument. Retarded christians just didn't recognize the absurdity of it.

No. It asserts that religion is a choice, and not belief.

well I don't think Odin cares whether or not you actually believe he exists so long as you present sacrifices to his idol

Why does that matter? Just because there are thousands of them that exist that doesn't mean one isn't correct

Indeed. but you missed the second point there. If you eschew an atheistic worldview wrongly, you've still lost something.

It's an argument based on normative concepts. No normative proposition can have a truth value.

Pascal's wager assumes some manner of choice in what you believe. If you can choose whether or not to accept Jesus, then that's fine, but people who's lives revolve around evidence based testable hypotheses can't choose that as effectively.

Pascal's wagers works for some one who can actively prevent their mind from coning up with counterarguments.

No it's not, you dumb piece of shit. A few things you need to know about Pascal, besides the fact that he was a genius and you never actually fucking read the Pensées.

The Pensées were his private work, never intended to be published and with the wager being a very small portion of it. In fact, the very wager itself is more or less a jest, stating that the best argument for God's existence was "you'd better wager on it, lol". This was a joke because Pascal was such a brilliant mathematician in the field of probabilty, that his works massively increased gambling in France.

Pascal's core belief was that faith is unreasonable and irrational. He knew his "argument" was shit, because having arguments for God would, according to him, defeat the entire purpose of believing in God. It's not a legitimate argument becasue it was never INTENDED to be a legitimate argument. Legitimate arguments would beat the entire point.

If you want legitimate arguments, go to his contemporary Descartes (with whom he butted heads over the rationality of faith more than once).

>Retarded christians just didn't recognize the absurdity of it.
Yet it is the favored punching bag of atheists, who are probably more guilty of not understanding the wager because they CONSTANTLY formulate counterarguments to it as if it's something new.

>God rewards false beliefs

I would say no

> who are probably more guilty of not understanding the wager
>le atheists are dumber meme
Fuck off. The only reason atheists even talk about is because retarded christfags bring it up.

I really didn't want to see Ted Cruz's face ever again.

>beaners name

It's translated from all of: Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek. It's not a beaner name. Spanish came from Latin, which came after all said languages.

>assuming there are multiple Gods now because we have accepted one

Yes

It assumes God falls for that kind of shit. So no.

Faith is either there or not, you can't just fuckin decide it.

>I sure tricked my way into heaven! haha!

Bro do you really think the creator of time and space is going to be rused like that.

What if it's unlucky and you don't know? That's his point.

God knows your faith isn't genuine but cold calculation.

It hinges on a)God accepting such faith as genuine and b)there being no religion which regards worshipping false idols as worse than atheism.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what you believe or who you worship. As long as you die in battle, you get to go to Valhalla.

I believe that when I die I'm going to skeptics heaven. Bam, I'm now just as likely to get eternal paradise as any other religion

You should probably actually read his writings before espousing an opinion on this. He spends something like 50 pages of text logically deducing that Christianity is the only valid religion beforehand.

>we have accepted one
Speak for yourself kiddo
I outgrew fairy tales when I was 7 years old.

Are there any religions which consider believe in other gods worse than atheism?

Because the ones I know consider godlessness worse than any form of faith

Christianity before it got soft.

Circular reasoning is not an accomplishment to be proud of

It's not like there are any texts or "knowledge" that relies on a priori reasoning. If we're going to disregard any and all thinkers for exactly that, we might as well simply take Wittgenstein's advice and shut the hell up.

What if there is a God that is not known to any living individual due to being part of a dead(or undiscovered) religion? What if he cares more about good deeds than faith, and hates monotheistic religions?

that does not*

And I'm sure I could come up with an excellent counterargument to your initial counterargument. Stop acting so enlightened pal

So? In the Bible where does it say God cares about why you believe in him? It just says you have to believe in and worship him. It doesn't say you have to do it, because of x.

No.

Anyone with half a brain can study any given religion and clearly see that they are all man made fabrications.

There are no "gods".

Never has been, and never will be.

The problem is that Pascal's Wager does not involve following Jesus, only acknowledging that there is a God.

The devil knows there is a God, and he's damned.

Pascal's Wager can only effect people into becoming deists, not Christians.

What if grasshoppers had machine guns? Then crows wouldn't fuck with them, huh.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

And people with more than half a brain can realize that the universe did indeed require an unmoved mover; a first cause.

His scenario, though, is just as likely as there being a God that punishes people just for not believing in him i.e. both have zero evidence behind them.

We all know that grasshoppers have machine guns but can't use them because their arms are too weak to pull the trigger.

not all religions have a hell, not even all christian sects believe in hell

That says nothing on us having to worship God for a certain reason. It just says that God is very forgiving towards us and wants all of us to be saved. The fact is you don't have to believe because you think God is the best thing since sliced bread and that he is super awsome and all that. If you worship him simply because you fear hell that is enough. Lots of people in history only converted and were faithful because they were terrified of burning in hell for all eternity. It doesen't matter if your motivation is to avoid being tortured forever, or get the best rewards ever, or just because you want to worship and obey God. You just have to.

That is an unproven assertion and even if it did then it would need to be a God. It could be a magic turtle called Boris.

There are some religions where you can go into heaven even if you don't believe in them. Viking religion with Vallhalla was given. Quite simply only Christianity is the faith that requires you to only believe in God and obey him to get into heaven.

What about Islam?

Islam allows Jews and Christians and other people of the book aka monotheists into heaven if they were good people and their good deeds outweighed the bad. Being a muslim just makes it easier to get into heaven but it's still possible for others to get in as long as they aren't atheists, or pagans.

That's why the crows win, man.

devil trips check'd

Yes, by God wanting all to come to repentance, God is saying that He wants to save all of us. But He's not going to save anyone against their will. You have the power to reject God and His plan for you.

>Once again Veeky Forums proves that Aristotle is not taught in public schools.

Being a muslim in no way gets you into paradise, nor does it increase your odds, as they understand them.

This. I can sort of see why someone would take part in Asatrue because the gods aren't all-knowing and all that but if you're talking about Christianity you've the biggest balls in the history of the universe if you seriously think you're going going to trick yourself into heaven, and write publicly about how you're going to do this shenanigans against someone that by the very definition knows everything.

Talk about unlucky huh?

Anyway yeah God wants us all to be saved, to be saved you have to acknowledge Christ as lord and savior. So for example the fearful middle ages peasant who worships God so he doesen't go to hell gets into heaven, while the atheist who doesen't care about god at best, and at worst scorns him goes to hell. You just have to accept Christ. Why you accept him isn't important just that you do.

Are you muslim? I myself am not a muslim so I am relying on second or third hand sources. Also if being a muslim does not increase your chances of getting into heaven why be one?

I don't want to shit all over Aristotle because he is one of the greats, for his time, teaching him in modern schools as some sort of authority, however, would be ludicrous.

Incorrect, since their are other religions which also claim you will go to hell if you don't follow them.

Have you not been paying attention? You aren't tricking your way into heaven. The condition to get in heaven in Christianity is to accept Jesus. Why you accept him is not important. It doesen't matter if your decision is motivated by love or fear. Let me give you a legal example. The government does not really care why I follow the law only that I follow it. So they don't want me to go to your house and rape then kill you. Now it doesen't matter the reason why I don't rape and kill you. It could be because I truly believe that rape and murder are wrong ethically and it shouldn't be done, or because I don't want the police to come beat my ass take me to court and then get sentenced to death. The why does not matter, only the outcome/action/ belief. So with God it's believing in him, with the government it's not murder raping. Do you get it?

No their aren't. Christianity is unique in that it needs belief. You keep saying religions need you to believe in them or you go to hell but you don't provide examples.

What about Islam?

I answered that already, but I'm currently talking with another guy here and I just asked a question. But Muslims believe Christians can get into heaven.

You can just call me SPAGHETTI TEDDY

Probably depends on the Muslim and what they believe. Islam is not some unified sect.

The Pope recently declared atheists could get into Heaven.

Uhh no he did not, and no they can't.

>>Christianity is unique in that it needs belief
Even if this is so, that doesn't mean there isn't some other deity awaiting you who really doesn't like the faith in question. This is what happens when you ignore things like the burden of proof, literally anything could be true.

Fair enough summary.

Now do what you need to do to be saved.

Their view of their god's sovereignty is absolute; if allah wants to save you, he will, and if he does not, he will not. You basically don't want to catch him on a bad day. To increase your chances, you try to die in a jihad. Hence 1400 years straight of jihad.

>Reason and common sense have no place in modern education.

Agreed.

We've already demonstrated that energy in a closed system is neither created or destroyed, it is simply transformed.

This demonstrates that it is possible for the energy in the cosmos to have always existed in some form, and that the form we currently observe it in is merely the current form in an ever changing universe.

No need to create "gods" when physics allows us to make direct observations.

All of the energy and matter in the universe was always here, in your view.

And we are not at heat death.

And we have lost no usable energy.

Your view is pedantic and anti-scientific.

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

Any more worthless and false assertions to make?

>God wants us all to be saved, to be saved you have to acknowledge Christ as lord and savior.

That's some of the dumbest shit man has ever invented.

"P-p-please believe in Jesus so you can be "saved" and I don't have to send you to hell...thanks".

That's some passive beta shit, and completely unworthy of any "god", which means it's obviously man made fabrication and horse shit. Just like all the other religions.

No, because you can do what you will but not will what you will. You cannot will yourself into truly believing in God. You can will yourself to perform rituals to him but the entire point of Christianity is it's not about the rituals, it's about having faith.

I for one would think that any God that was fooled by someone saying IM A CHRISTIAN and rewarded that person for lying about what he believed would be pretty stupid and his heaven would probably suck ass.

>religion
>reason and common sense

Choose ONE.

Whatever dude. God won't save you against your will. You want nothing to do with God? You want to be separated from God forever?

God has a place for you, and will honor your requests.

I wouldn't sweat it. God is not mocked. Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" enters into the Kingdom.

Heaven.
Hell.

Choose ONE.

>All of the energy and matter in the universe was always here, in your view.

Matter IS energy, and yes, that energy has always been here, and WILL always be here, in one form or another.

The closest thing to a "holy trinity" is simply energy, gravity, and time, because they're responsible for creating everything there is, and ever will be...

Those forms would be "usable" and "unusable".

You seriously need to look up "infinite regresses" and "heat death".

No.

He won't.

Because "he" doesn't exist, user.

The sooner people realize that shit, the sooner we can focus on something that unites us as a species, instead of divides us.

>reality
>fiction

Choose ONE.

Oh please. Aristotle couldn't come up with a decent answer to Zeno's paradoxes i.e. he couldn't figure out why Achilles couldn't catch a tortoise if the tortoise kept moving.

I have no problem with Aristotle but appealing to him as an authority in lieu of a serious point and then backtracking even further and claiming something as vague as "reason and common sense" are on your side is a ludicrous argument.

You're right there. Jesus is going to divide the human race between the quick and the dead, and right now you're the dead.

Life, good, God, heaven.
Death, evil, satan, hell.

Choose ONE.

>"heat death".

There is no such thing as "death", user.

Only transformation.

When we "die", our energy will simply transform and merge with the planet.
Our planet will eventually transform and merge with the sun.
The sun will eventually transform and merge with the galaxy.
And on, and on, and on...

>Aristotle was a pleb for not intuiting Planck length.

Veeky Forums

>a dead Jew is supposed to have some kind of authority over all of humanity

Oy vey!

See: >>>>

>Life, good, God, heaven.

Pic related

No. The good argument for Christianity is to control women's and plebs' destructive instincts by means of fear-mongering.

I'm an atheist in private, but a Christian in public because of my fiancée and future children.

False dichotomies & appeal to dogma
Civil discourse & appeal to data

Choose ONE.

>Jesus isn't alive because I say so.

kek

You can't make up some bullshit like the flying spaghetti monster. It has to be a real religion. Because real religions claim that their gods actually in the past were active. So pick a living religion and tell me which one requires belief instead of action? Muslim's allow Christians and jews in heaven, Jews aren't clear on the afterlife, Hindus, and Buddhists have reincarnation where if you do good you get a better life, if you are bad you get a shit life. So you can try again.
Yeah, I don't think you know what you are talking about with this 1400 years of straight jihad.
catholicvote.org/what-pope-francis-really-said-about-atheists/
Francis says alot of things that are confusing, and liberals misinterpret it to mean that things are going to change. The Church will not go against it's teachings. Atheists are going to hell.
What the fuck should god do to those who refuse to worship him? Sending them to hell is a just punishment.

Way to ruin a woman's life.

That is not what I said, though, Aristotle was a brilliant man for his time.

Name dropping him as if that somehow makes some piece of shitposting correct is not an argument.

How is he ruining her life? Unless you are talking about her afterlife, because her husband won't be there.