Democracy won't last forever will it Veeky Forums?

>Athens

A slave-owning minority of citizens ran the country.

>Rome

One of the most corrupt oligarchies to ever exist.

Democracy has only existed as a facade or on a small scale. It may never be really tried ever. Even today it's existence is a massive threat to ruling plutocrats.

Cuba's a nice country.

for a tourist

Just because they had slaves who did not belong to their ingroup-the demos- does not mean thwy were not democratic.

Democracy can be fashioned in as much ways as a demos can be defined even if it violates your modern western ethics.

There are actually terror attacks on tourists by opposition fighters who want to ruin tourism so stupid westeners stop feeding their tyranny with money it couldnt generate itself.

Cuba was wealthier than Spain and had a similar GDP per capita than Italy before Castro. Socialism likes the poor so much that they multiply them.

For the people who live there relative to other Caribbean countries as well.

It's not fantastic, but it beats living in tin hut being illiterate and having AIDS in Haiti.

You mean by literal CIA agents.

It was also a massive shithole for generally everyone but gangsters.

There's a good reason GDP is a stupid way of measuring how nice a country is.

>It was also a massive shithole for generally everyone but gangsters
Nope.Forth Highest nutrition per capita in America,and had access to the most advanced technology in the world. Like color TV or Radio stations and it had a decent infrastructure. Only Castro niggers can defend the destruction that the bastard did.

I warned you about the volonté générale, bro.

The thing about revolutions is they don't happen in successful happy countries. In Cuba prior to the revolution you had to put up with massive inequality, massive unemployment particularly among the young (unless of course you were willing to be a prostitute), the economic reality of being a tin-can American tourist economy, extreme rural poverty and the thick American imperialism surrounding the politics of the state.

Not every communist state was going to be a future capitalist utopia, there's a good reason people hated those countries so much to take up arms against it. And there's a good reason why most assblasted Cuban emigres in the US are disproportionately white compared to the actual demographics of Cuba.

They hated Batista that was a retard. But Castro just totally destroyed the country. Cuba had its fair share of problems,similars to the ones that face the south of Europe right now,but that doesnt mean that the revolution was positive.

>And there's a good reason why most assblasted Cuban emigres in the US are disproportionately white compared to the actual demographics of Cuba.
Cuba was like 80% white before the revolution,and it still has a huge white population.

It was, Cuba has one of the highest HDI's of all Latin America and whilst it faces a lot of great problems it's lightyears ahead of where it was under Batista.

Cuba could be a lot better, but if the rest of the Caribbean is any indication Castro is nothing short of a hero for saving the country from such a fate.

...

It's majority white. But it's like a 60% majority compared to Cuban American's decisive 85% majority.

As a matter of fact having said that Cuban American's are whiter than rest of the US statistically.

Democracy works if everone believes corruption is good.
Communism works if everyone thinks corruption is bad.
Dictatorship works if everyone believes corruption is bad

>It's majority white. But it's like a 60% majority compared to Cuban American's decisive 85% majority.
So Cuba was like 80% white,so 85% of the Cuban diaspora being white is for you disproportionate.

Good riddance.

Republic > Democracy anyways.

W-what comes after animal-like existence?

You would think but the fact that the percentage of Cuban Americans that are black is disproportionately small compared to blacks still living in Cuba born prior to the revolution, as is it the case that whites only make up about 60-70% of the elderly Cuban population.

It's also worth considering that since there's literally a million white Cuban Americans this may have strongly influenced the decline of the white percentage.

>what is modern day wageslavery
>what is bilderberg
>what is income inequality

I presume primitive monarchy, which starts the cycle all over again.

Blacks may have higher birtg rates,and I dont know how big race mixing is there. But if the elderly Cuban population in Cuba and outside of Cuba combined is arond 80% of the population,having mostly white diaspora makes lots of sense,as Cuba was mostly white

bring back monarchy

Interesting blacks actually drastically decline as a percentage of the population when you look at the racial ethnicities of infants compared to adults, somewhat mirroring how in the US blacks have been largely stable in their percentage of the population. It only seems to be whites and Mulattoes that are disproportionate among newborns compared to the total population.

>having mostly white diaspora makes lots of sense,as Cuba was mostly white
The implication when I originally made the point was that it's for certain that whites would be the biggest group among emigres on the count that Cuba's petite bourgeoisie would have for certain been chiefly white, also hence why the black percentage of US Cubans is so low.

>blacks actually drastically decline as a percentage of the population when you look at the racial ethnicities of infants compared to adults, somewhat mirroring how in the US blacks have been largely stable in their percentage of the population. It only seems to be whites and Mulattoes
Well Mulattoes are black+ white meaning that the reduced in black population would be due race mixing. Does the Cuban goverment even releases stadistics about this?

if you're going to make that distinction, then there is not a single democracy in the west nowadays

Yes

one.cu/publicaciones/cepde/cpv2012/20140428informenacional/46_tabla_II_4.pdf

>Just because they had slaves who did not belong to their ingroup-the demos- does not mean thwy were not democratic.

Only a specific minority of Greek citizens were allowed to take part in elections, thus it is not democratic.

Authoritarian governments are necessary to do the things the democracies can't or won't.

Weren't citizenship and being able to vote bound to each other? Or are you calling women and slaves citizens?

Again.
Your modern western ethics are not relevant for defining a system that was created and named long before your sefibition of it existed.

For the greeks, slaves were not people like them.
They simply had no rights.
They were "the other".
Got it?
The people excluded slaves women and foreigners. Thus they voted for their interests.
Just some hundred years ago there were democracies in the west in which women were not allowed to vote.
Because they were not seen as reasonable people.
Still it was a democracy in the terms the demos was defined by the people in power at that time.

Today we gladly stopped slavery, but there are still groups that are excluded from the demos.
Kids and Foreigners without a passport.
Is our democraty now not a true democraty because it excludes people?
Should the concept of outgroups be completely abandoned before a real democracy can happen?

Who made this definition of democracy?

Why would you cry about that. You should be happy seeing concepts reaching their objective teleological end.

By the way. The only reason non-western countries even try democracy is because that gives them brownie points in the Global Trade. If you are strong as China and Russia you can ignore many tenants of democracy.

Nothing lasts forever OP. Lets just hope that whatever replaces democracy, also doesn't last forever.

I prefer a good dictator than a bad democracy

Everyone does. The problem is what you do when that dictator dies. Or when that dictator changes his mind.

>big catastrophe

See you in Murphy's law land.

Has this been proven to be a cycle? Or is this this presumptive?

If we would have dictatorships, would we have been colonizing the stars now?

But what if the dictator is bad and he...

Oh wait, we have no recourse.

Have a military coup by extremely patriotic generals who love their country, kin and race.

But what if the generals are bad and they...

Oh wait, we have no recourse.

Then you have another general.

>having generals

So the generals are commanded by the popular will of the people? Perhaps citizens could vote for whichever general they most wanted to be selected.

user means power was in the hands of a minority much smaller than what we mean when we say democracy today, and that makes it too different to be used to predict things.

>History is cyclical.
>History is positivist
>Democracy = Progress

If global warming runs its course civilization will be dwindling, not just democracy. Only the Finns and Antarcticans will survive.

>tfw you will live through a transition from Republic to Empire
Feels damn good to be an American, desu

You can have a democracy without everyone being enfranchised. You just need to have a definition of who counts as a "person" or a citizen.

Venice
Florence
Isle of Man's Tynwald
Iceland's Althing
Thing of All Swedes
Oman
Iroquois
The Aztecs also practiced elections, but the elected officials elected a supreme speaker, not a ruler

If you get a good first emperor it could be a good time. If you get an asshole it might be miserable.

Just hold your breath for an Augustus and not a Tiberius, user.

Hopefully something new and better will replace it, frogman. Electronical voting might be the first step to some new system that operates on the internet, maybe a highly decentralized system where small groups basically enable direct democracies on the local level, with something else replacing the federal levels. Who knows. I don't think we're moving to a darker age, we might have a setback for a few decades, but after that comes something new and better I think. I really don't want to believe that the current democracies we have is the "final form" of them, and it really doesn't feel like that will be the case either.

Direct democracy shares the shit out of me.

The average person cannot be an expert on everything, or even most things. These people are liable to be swayed by propaganda and rhetoric, not facts. Even intelligent people are easily convinced on subjects they're not well informed in.

Sure having a dictator or a representative democracy has its flaws (and they're numerous) but at least it's their full time job to be decisionmakers on policy, ideally debating it amongst themselves and consulting experts. Does it always happen? No, not really, but at least it's not a "convince Jim the computer programmer what agricultural policy he should vote on."
The reality is, Jim has other shit to worry about. Even if he was a very conscientious voter he wouldn't have enough hours in the day to give a shit about everything.

I hear ya, notice how I only said direct democracy on the local level, and what I mean by that is mostly just local local level. I think as technology and education would get better, you could have more referendums, if not just to gather ppl's opinion. But yeah it's very perilous. I think though that the more educated an education would get the more you could fit stuff like that in.

>the more educated an education would get the more you could
the more educated the population would get*, getting too tired here.

As someone who has sat in on multiple county committees and city council meetings, let me tell you, the average joe who cares enough to say anything about petty local politics is either the "I'm important because I fuck over my neighbors" type, or the "My neighbor is a dick, someone think of the children!" type, or the common "I want the government to leave and never return" kind of guy.
direct democracy turns me off

>implying there are even any democracies today
They're all tyrannical republics of various sorts. The US is the only actually democratic republic around and it's still a tyrannical republic.

Well, we're getting a Trump or a Clinton.

Democracy is an inhuman ideology that will destroy itself. There's no need to interfere, really. It'll die on its own.

So 2 Tiberiuses?