>>12186549

he literally mentions off-white specifically. go reread the interview you dolt.

Yes, because the fucking interviewer asks about Off-White, Vetements and Gosha you retard

off white is the epitome of overpriced screenprinted gildan shit

Why would he care about or be inspired by these guys? He didn't better 20 years ago.

*didn't = did it

>off white is the epitome of overpriced screenprinted gildan shit

I hate offwhite too but it's actually good quality and made in portugal/italy.

Vetements cut their own patterns and source their own fabrics.
Of course you would not notice because you are retarded

fine but i'm still not paying 600 bucks for a t shirt that makes me look like a construction vehicle

>Virgil "I Slapped NEBRASKA On Everything For My A/W 15 Season Because I Love Raf " Abloh on suicide watch
Based Raf does it again

what are you talking about retard?

wasn't the latest virgil collection in paris decent at least lol

what argument are you trying to make here?

this is obviously a diss:

>GQ: Are there any young designers today that inspire or excite you?
>R: Yes...not off-white.
>R: I'm inspired by people who make original designs [implying off-white is not original]
>R: I’m not just trying to be politically correct here—trying to be nice and sweet about people because that’s what we’re always supposed to do when these questions come up in interviews [implying what he is saying about off-white is actually fairly withdrawn from his real opinion]

>later goes on to describe how Demna has evolved from his work at MM
>praises Demna
>then says Demna and Virgil can't even be compared [implying Virgil is a shit]

into reading comprehension boi don't make me nut on your face again

Runway show was alright. The women's clothing is better than the men's. Show was similar to Raf's A/W 02 by having a forest vibe with leaves all over the floor. Only difference is that Virgil had shitty rap blasting as the show soundtrack.

a lot better than his previous efforts I gotta admit, maybe he's gonna shy away from all the pyrex and be original

nothing amazing but much better than the usual white stripe everything

remember that time dick ovens played katie got bandz

>Now, the high fashion world used to have, for many decades, almost all through the 20th century, a bourgeoisie. But bourgeoisie is not necessarily a bad word. That’s not what I mean. Let’s say a high court audience. And it never changed and evolved. Because our world structure kept it like that. Up until young kids said, "We are going to look and consume and react and say something and have a dialogue. Even if we are not in that show. We are not in the court. We are not in the castle." And that’s what’s happening now. And we designers, we are completely out of that whole thing. We have to think, how are we going to deal with it? Because the bourgeoisie, they really still think it’s all for them. They spit on the youth. Nobody dares to say it, but it’s like that. They spit on the youth. They don’t even realize that they are going to lose the game.

i don't get what he's trying to say here

Based Raf Simons

context on this image? why does Raf have a burger king crown on his head?

why don't you have a burger king crown on your head fag

>Now, that’s not a critique. At all. I think he’s a smart one. And I think there will be things coming up. I don’t think you can compare him at all to the guy from Off-White. So I cannot talk about these people in the same way.

holy fuck virgil got ethered lmao

because burger king is gross

>what is photoshop

>he doesn't own a BK crown
>there are people on this board RIGHT NOW who don't own a BK crown
lel shiggydiggy

but seriously, it was a cover for the magazine Arena Homme + or Arena Homme Plus. which ever you prefer saying most. here you go, friend.

this is why raf will never hang out with you

Again, he just says he doesn't like Off-White, you are reading way too much in to it.

why is justin timberlake murdering that doe

wtf is this cover lol, i dont even get who is it in other than raf

rich ppl don't care about hypesbeasts choice in clothing

High fashion is elite and stale but the new people coming to fashion that aren't elite are making their own thing and their influence and power is growing.

thx guys

In the fashion world saying that you don't like a particular designer, especially one that's obviously looking up to you, is quite huge in my opinion. But Raf stopped giving any fucks since he left Dior. In the interview he did with Miuccia they both went in hard, it was hilarious.

he's saying fashion used to be a fun/exclusive hobby for rich people and they'd rarely criticize or conversate about designers/shows/etc. because the market was just so small and information was not readily available. the recent influx of kids who pay attention to fashion b/c of Instagram and the ability for people to basically google whatever item some celeb is wearing and be able to purchase it has changed the entire market/game. basically he's saying the new generation of young people interested in fashion will only grow larger and bring what was once an exclusive/underground scene to mass popularity. young people also don't give a shit about prestige or shit talking designers because they don't have any public image to keep up with.

>in my opinion
That's what I'm saying, you are reading too much in to it because it's Raf. The interviewer mentions Off-White, Raf says he doesn't find the brand exciting or inspirational, that's all there is to it. It's not a sick burn by Raf.
Fuck, if he is dissing Off-White in that interview he is definitely dissing Vetements as well, just saying that Denma knows what sells.

>maybe he's gonna shy away from all the pyrex and be original
you've clearly not been looking at his shows the past few seasons because it's not pyrex anymore
he does, however still sell pretty much the same pyrex shit but with off---white printed instead, because that's his major source of income

not sure how you can say that this is a diss against demna

>If it comes to somebody like Demna, I think he knows what he is. What I liked about it is almost what everybody hates about it now. That it was going back to something that I like: Martin Margiela and myself. You know, to have the guts to go so direct. Because it’s what people like. People like Martin. They love Martin. And people like youth and that rebellion feel. And all these things are what he brought. But you cannot escape from it. He knows it himself as well. It’s been there for many decades at Martin. Oversized hoodies with text prints. It’s been there.

>Now, that’s not a critique. At all. I think he’s a smart one. And I think there will be things coming up. I don’t think you can compare him at all to the guy from Off-White. So I cannot talk about these people in the same way.

But not even fashion critics really criticize anything, because they're afraid to lose the ad money from the brands.

I mean, it wasn't really a diss, but it's quite outspoken for an interview for GQ.

I'm surprised he likes Vetements since he loves Margiela so much and they're basically raping his "corpse".

I JUST GIVE A BIG WOOP WE BROKE THE WORLD RECORD RAFFO

Just so you know, you're replying to several persons.

...

not me but I agree

me

I'm not reading into that much and I actually think Raf is a pretentious fool with some of the stuff in this interview.

You're completely wrong about it not being a direct insult to Virgil tho. the original question is if they inspire or excite him. he instantly says he doesn't like off-white and then goes beyond that and give an opinion calling it unoriginal/contrived and later says vetements with Demna is on an entirely different level.

that's without a doubt an insult. if he wasn't intending to insult Virgil he wouldn't even mention him (like he pretty much fails to comment on Gosha)

>I'm surprised he likes Vetements since he loves Margiela so much and they're basically raping his "corpse".
Well he basically implied they are doing just that and it's succeeding because people just like Margiela that much

BIG WOOP

But I'm surprised that people who actually like and know Margiela's work would like Vetements, because it's so jaded and cynical compared to the original.

Just take the collection with all the collaborations. This would have been the perfect opportunity to take their name "vetements" and actually represent it well, but no, they sell clothes that are produced by the actual companies for 20 times the orginal price. the eastpak backpack which is basically their standard one with a slightly bigger handle costs 700€, a alpha industries bomber costs 2000€...it's just so soulless.

Not liking something is burn of great magnitude

vetements is original though, show me something they ripped directly from martin

>I'm surprised he likes Vetements since he loves Margiela so much and they're basically raping his "corpse".
really
i.. really

...

>they sell clothes that are produced by the actual companies
Could you not argue that Margirela did this with stuff like the GATs? They're not made by whatever contractor but theyre basically the exact same in appearance, just using better materials with a different tongue patch.

i mean i can see the basic idea as the same but vetements took it further

>vetements is original though

oh come on

>de-/reconstruction, especially with denim
>square shapes
>exaggerated proportions on sleeves, shoulders etc.
>anonymity
>riding on the name of belgian fashion by selling 400 t-shirts with antwerp written on them

if you take the time you can pretty much find something they ripped off in every look the show

I guess but I still like vetements, i'm not good at explaining it but i just think they're really important and one of the best designers right now

maybe you can just boil it down to their edginess? "total fucking darkness", "sexual fantasies", the weed grinders, exaggerated proportions. it all speaks to me, maybe that's what raf means about the whole fashion being made by the youth for the youth?

their pricing does suck, i mean very few youth can actually afford it lol, but it's there and it's cool imo

these slogan hoodies are exactly the problem I have with it. Their first few shows were quite interesting and while they obviously were hugely influenced by Margiela, they felt like they were highlighting something that was missing in fashion. Which then quickly turned into churning out the most instagramable, ironic trash they can come up with. And people lap it up. But if you look at who's wearing vetements now, you can see that the backlash already started. Something that for example I don't see happening with Gosha.

This is a very Internet Fashion Youth(tm) way of looking at fashion, not from a design perspective. You are exactly the type of kid Raf is talking about in this interview and the one with Miuccia in System Mag.

What is exactly wrong with drawing elements from designers you worked for / were heavily influenced by growing up? It is what is authentic to him, but kids like you who don't understand a single thing about the creative process can only make really basic connections such as "x did y, z also did y. Therefore z's work is invalid" without referencing the experiential design in the context of the real world. Yes it shares some elements, vetements' genius lies not in its form alone but the fact that it was done the way it was (expanded upon) at the time it was, and packaged and positioned the way it was.

For people who are designers themselves or are constantly thinking about design, they can see this and realize "ah fuck, that was a really good move. makes total sense, well done you beat us to it." but to internet fashion teens whose only purpose of engagement with the operations / output of high fashion and its designers is an ego boost to project onto yourself and others an idea of "oh, I totally know what's going on with fashion. just look at this (very basic and insignificant) commentary i can make on an issue i don't really know much about! man I sure know alot about fashion(tm)!"

Not trying to be mean because everyone has a phase like that, but you should be aware that there are way more levels to things than you are aware of, so sometimes it's best to hear what others have to say and recalibrate and reconsider instead of trying to talk balk / argue from the same standpoint which, in the context of the real world and all its levels, does not stand.

>vetements
>genius

stopped reading there

That's hilarious because you just proved my point to a t

that's ok i didn't read your point either

It's ok to be wrong sometimes, it builds character and critical thinking skills which are crucial for navigating through life. I suggest you read my post and make any rebuttals, if you'd like, but only of it is for a geniune interest in an exchange / dialogue and not for the purpose of saving face or maintaining ego.

But the thing i find funny the most is how at the end this fashion which is quite useless without a proper context, gets butchered and copied by likes of H&M and Zara to the people who dont have any idea about background.

is it hard being so obnoxious or does it just come naturally

so whats the difference between virgil copying raf and vetements copying margiela?

I don't understand your question and why it was raised in relation to what i am saying

>What is exactly wrong with drawing elements from designers you worked for / were heavily influenced by growing up?

ok so why is it ok for vetements to rip off martin but raf has a problem with virgil ripping off him, help me understand

cause demna worked for margiela u dummy

I don't think Raf said that and I am still not understanding why you are asking this to me and what it has to do with anything I was saying, please elaborate

it's clear to me that raf knows that virgil basically ripped a bunch of his shit, i'm just curious why he would sing the praises of denma but write off virgil so explicitly

come on get off your high horse and stop acting like you don't get what I'm saying, I'm asking cause i like your views and opinions

>What is exactly wrong with drawing elements from designers you worked for / were heavily influenced by growing up?

Look at the picture. That is not drawing reference, it's straight up copying. It's just so blatant and obivous. I get why people like it, I get why it sells, but everything they have been doing in their last four collections just feels so incredibly calculated and cold. For me there is a big difference between inspiration and copying. Raf is also inspired by Margiela, Lang or even pop culture like Twin Peaks, but he makes it his own. Vetements does not. They make the handle of an eastpak backpack slightly bigger and sell it for a 2000% mark-up. That may be clever business and marketing for the times we live in, but it's not good design.

Can't believe no one has brought up that Raf not once refers to Virgil by name and says only "that off white guy"

S A V A G E

the more savage thing about this is that he had lunch with virgil and asap rocky in paris a couple years ago

how u know

there's a photo of them somewhere online sitting at a small table in paris
cant find it thooo

vogue.com/866134/kanye-wests-creative-director-virgil-abloh-on-raf-simons/

holy fuck virgil gonna burn all his raf now

kek
virgil is gonna jump off a building now

>hes a sweet guy

fashion zoned :o

No I actually didn't get what you were saying but now that I do I still don't get why you are asking me this, to me when reading the article it didn't really seem like he was "hating on virgil and praising demna" so this is a non-topic for me which you're asking me to elaborate on, and i have no answer for you. only raf does

Again you're coming from a level where the perspective of fashion design and the creative process associated with it is not a reality, only a projected idea that exists in ever which way. Have you ever sat down and really tried hard to actually design good fashion? You most definitely haven't because anyone who has is not so quick to say, again, "x did y and z did y, z is invalid. Your assertion suggests that "good design" MUST be new in the purest sense, which has been the lifelong pursuit and driving force behind Rei's work, with which she even finds difficulty doing.

The photo is a really pathetic attempt at pointing out a "wrongdoing" which isn't even there, what am I supposed to be looking at? Toying with sleeve length and reconstructed denim with staggered elements, fucking everyone in fashion has had this idea at one point or another, it's not so revolutionary of a concept that it can be solely attributed to Margiela, whose work it was seen in a few items of a few looks of a few collections decades ago. The second set of photos I have 0 clue where you are seeing similarities, and has obviously been put together by someone who isn't aware of a wide range of cultural references, because they aren't looking far enough and have only seen whatever they have seen in that Margiela photo in that photo, without realizing it exists in abundance elsewhere, and can be sourced from these other places. You can actually see his thought process, the "aha! got u!" but it falls flat because of their ignorance.

>one of the most celebrated designers of his generation
>giving his opinion makes him pretentious

You know you're the kind of person he was talking about in his joint interview with prada

I'm incredibly tired of this "I'm better than you" way of arguing. Denouncing other people's opinions with alleged experience and insider knowledge is quite low.

Sorry but it's just the way it is, I know more and your opinions simply do not stand in the real world. It can't be made understood to you without the right experience and knowledge that follows. This is why I hardly ever post, because it's literally impossible. Raf himself could come post here and argue, and people would still think they are on the same plane and that their points and opinions are valid, when they're not. at all.

it's tragic, unconscious incompetence. i encourage you to develop enough self awareness to get to a state of conscious incompetence, that's when you can really start learning anything real.

>Raf Simons: As designers, we choose to work through clothes and fashion shows and photography and everything. But I think we also have something to say. These days, there are so many people judging the fashion world who I don’t even know – beyond the people we know and respect, like Suzy Menkes or Tim Blanks – and they often have such extreme things to say that I feel they sometimes position themselves above people who have long-term experience. I am somebody who is very into young opinions, young voices, young creativity, but I don’t really know who all these people are.

There you go, from the man himself.

If you cannot seriously step back and reflect on who YOU are, what the fashion industry is, and where YOU stand in relation to the industry's operations and realize that your opinion is absolutely meaningless in comparison, you don't know enough about yourself or how fashion works / is. Seriously, don't just respond to me, think about it.. who are you??

So many love, so Much frog!

And what makes your opinion more valuable than mine? What makes you so sure that I don't have any experience or knowledge in or about the fashion industry?

Vetements is lazy derivative design that struck a nerve. I applaud them for being business savy and knowing how to use social media and the fashion press to their advantage. I never said being influenced or inspired by other designers is a bad thing, but the same way Raf said Off-White doesn't inspire him, Vetements doesn't inspire me to think about it or buy any of it.

Agreed, though seems at least like he is moving away from the printed shit now, FW17 was already going to better direciton

>make any rebuttals
Your every point is just "im better than you, you are all internet fashion teens", there is nothing to argue or talk about when you don't even give people the benefit of having dialogue or discuss things, you just put them down instantly.
You keep talking about internet and real life like there is some sort of huge gap between the two, it's silly when social media and internet are daily life of people and especially the fashion crowd nowadays. And if you can't see the link between internet/socia media and success of new designers with heavy influences on streetwear you are probably more out of touch than lot of the "internet fashion kids" you keep constantly insulting to show your superiority in fashion.

kek

what? i dont even get his point lol

he's happy that somebody finds his clothes "inspiring"... it ain't Raf tho

bump
fuck virgil abloh