VETEMENTS AW17

From what I've read, Lorenzo (FOG guy) doesn't actually design any of his products, he just gets the factory to make samples until he gives the thumbs up and then they mass produce them. I'm not sure if that's true though, but given how shit they are I think that might be the case.

I think Virgil isnt that bad. His womans stuff is nice and the items with minimal branding can look good too. I liked those mohair (?) sweaters from his latest mens show, they look very nice. Most of his other mens stuff is lacking though. I particularly like this thing, although the branding and giant 'YOU CUT ME OFF' ruins it. I wonder if there's a way to remove it.

Vetements is my favorite European brand presently. I like how they approach a variety of styles in each of their shows (from loungewear to suits) and seem to give a big 'fuck you' to conventions. What largely caught my attention was them wanting to break away from the fashion week cycle. I also appreciate how they spend barely any time designing their stuff and how they don't mind fakes.

only because demna is the closest thing to margiela right now since the margiela design team and galliano are far from actual martin, and demna is just making shit that he most likely thought of but got denied while working under martin

tldr; raf wants martin's dick

jerry most likely just gets mood boards and pics of other clothes (rick) and picks and chooses details, and the actual team at the full package manufacturer makes it

>jerry most likely just gets mood boards and pics of other clothes (rick) and picks and chooses details, and the actual team at the full package manufacturer makes it

That's pretty disgusting if true.

>Now, that’s not a critique. At all. I think he’s a smart one.
I think he is saying Denma is very smart business man and very much on the pulse of this moment, he does things that people obviously enjoy, like and buy even though it's not the most original and conceptually similar to Margiela. He has made name for himself and become relevant by giving people exactly what they want right now. Now that he has made name for himself and established the brand
> there will be things coming up
Which I think you can see from the FW17 collection already.
That's how I see it anyway.

>conceptually similar to Margiela
Kind of a newbie question here, but how is Vetements similar to Margiela? I can kind of see the Raf similarity, but not so about MMM. Maybe it's just because I'm not too acquainted with Margiela's work, but it's always a talking point and I've never really gotten it. Are there any specific MMM pieces that'll really sell the comparison that I should take a look at?

meh...

they're basically just ironicizing every trend and style there is, their name is literally making fun of clothing brands and clothes as a concept for example

that pic is just them playing with punk

wtf i love vetements now

what the fuck are you talking about? even with galliano at the helm, margiela is still very much margiela

theres no general lookalike pieces to talk about, but vetements is obviously a stilistic continuation of the margiela legacy, most of the collective including demna worked at the maison for quite some time, just go scroll trough some mmm runway show pics and youll begin to see it

Are you implying that Vetements is derivative? Because that's fucking ridiculous.

please stop, margiela and vetements aren't stylistically comparable

educate youreself please

If people start getting this fucking haircut I will run around my city with a weed whacker chopping down every last spike

i dont see any vetements garments that look like margiela

>from loungewear to suits
like pretty much all designer brands ?

>seem to give a big 'fuck you' to conventions
like most relevant designer brands did before them and still currently do ?

> they spend barely any time designing their stuff
k so instead of paying overpriced shit only for the design, you pay ridiculously overpriced shit only for the sake of paying an absurd price

You missed the whole point

Do like said

about what?

I highly doubt that's what they meant to convey

lmao

You're all failing to look past the surface of the clothing and think critically about Demna's thought process.

I think Vetements was described best by user Mainstayer0 at SZ and I won't attempt to paraphrase.

"Demna's designs at Vetements immediately strike me as rebellious, tongue-in-cheek, and keyed in to the experience of youth who have grown up in the Internet age.

What others may see as bandwagonning on the 90's trend and shameless over-branding in an attempt to cater to Instagram promotion, I view as an intentional portrayal of the multi-faceted interests of today's youth, something that simultaneously appeals to the generational trends it is trying to represent, kind of like how artwork by Richard Prince and Jeff Koons is commodified like the advertisements it tries to lampoon.

People who have grown up on the Internet thrive on nostalgia, have had access to a practically infinite bank of images from every decade of the 20th century to internalize the style of.
[...]
Subcultures are all blended now, whatever was goth or grunge or punk is branded with the umbrella term "edgy" and brought to you by Taylor Swift on the cover of Nylon magazine. I think Vetements recognizes this implicitly, and makes clothes that capture the spirit of the times by incorporating elements from all across the spectrum, from streetwear to skateboarding to throwbacks to workwear. It's done in such a way that it will seem cool to your average girl on instagram, while simultaneously making a commentary on her tastes and the current state of fashion as a whole.

The guy is obviously self-aware, I don't know how you don't see that there is a statement being made by creating a hoodie with the literal dictionary definition of hoodie written on it, or making logos a central focus of the clothes when it's common knowledge that the practice is looked down upon by "true" fashionistas precisely because luxury brands are becoming so accessible in the modern age."

b-b-but he's copying margiela! reeeee

That's equally annoying. Of course he's heavily inspired by Martin. He spent years working for the guy. Y'all read that Raf interview where he praises Demna for unabashedly turning back to his major influences for inspiration you say 'Raf just has a hardon for Margiela too'

The point is that Demna is taking some of Margiela's strong points and delivering them to a new generation in a way that feels relevant to them. He's capturing the current zeitgeist of the internet generation and selling it back to the youth involved in the same package that inspired the idea.

>selling it back to the youth

i mean how many youth can actually afford vetements

Plenty of people in their 20's can afford Vetements. Plenty more can blow a paycheck on Vetements even if they can't afford it. Even more can freak out about it on the internet even if they can't afford it. The purpose is served either way.

I really like that UN hoodie, I think I'll be getting one when it releases. I also unironically like this outfit. I've no idea what the fuck is going on but the PVC coat makes the thing interesting where it would otherwise look just like a middle aged man in cargos and a sweater. I think the guy who's modelling it is perfect for the role.

Something I've wondered for a long time is how that's possible. I buy fakes if I want something expensive, and fake versions exist, but otherwise I'll buy the real thing. I get saving up and all that but do people really have jobs that pay enough for them to pay for living costs, taxes and then have money left over to buy $1000 jeans?

Sure it's possible. First off there are really wealthy people and trust funders who have enough money for anything and don't give a fuck.

Then there are people with good office jobs or tech jobs that make quite a bit and can afford high fashion within reason.

Hell, I'm a bartender and I walk away from a shift with $500 in tips on a decent night. My rent is less than $1k even in a pretty big city. Even with my extravagant food costs I'm pretty much covered for the month in four days of work.

This is great too
That's pretty interesting. I didn't know you could make so much in tips; we don't have tipping where I live. Now that I think about it, the last time I was in the US I noticed meals cost more than they used to, and then tipping is expect on top of that. Still, you being able to pay for a months worth of expenses in 4 days is pretty cool. I can see how alot of people can afford this stuff then.

does anyone have that picture of 4 or 5 vetements models in thigh-highs and skirts and heels kind of looking down at the camera?

boy you fuckin know i do
5 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4

based

too much dragonball

What are your favorite Vetements pieces?

Personally a fan of the red leather biker, though I'm pretty sure it's for women.

not just haircut, spikes in general will be the new trend

So nice to have actual vetements discussion without the 'haha nigga this rapper wore this piece its fire xDD follow me on instagram'

I'm going to pick 3.
>Something that I would wear but can't
Sexual fantasies thighhighs. Weird choice but I don't fancy crossdressing and I like their simplicity and that a brand is bringing long socks into it without just being plain pantyhose.

>Something I wouldn't wear
Pic related. I don't do anything that requires a suit.

>Something I would wear
Probably that new UN hoodie, or the white striped shirt.

wayne static called

THANK YOU they're so fuckinh hot

fw blueshirt will never stomp on you

Feels like some people don't understand the comparison with MM - it's not because the clothes would look similar, but because they are both conceptual (meaning that behind the garment there is an idea that is more developed than "I like blue"). One could argue that a lot of the concepts used by Demna were already used by MM, but in the end everything has been already done in art and life, so I find it more interesting to look at the actual merits of Demna's AD.

I think the Vetements concept was great.
OP , the collection is based on the photography project called Exactitudes by Ari Versluis and Ellie Uyttenbroek. I guess the debate here is the lack of the original idea - in the sense that MM researched and created their own material for example in the Replica line, whereas Vetements just took someone else's idea and played with it.

The Balenciaga show was imo at the same time aesthetically very pleasing, but conceptually very poor. After all the tricks all there was left was a very awkward juxtaposition of "them" vs "us". Playing an activist in a context and to an audience that essentially is benefiting of the values that for example Trump represents, is just lacking substance.

>meaning that behind the garment there is an idea that is more developed than "I like blue"
Aren't most brands like that, though? Enough avant-garde or artsy brands have concepts, so why should you point to MM specifically when talking about Vetements?

>le punk chic fashion lol
Wasn't this shit dead already? Crystal Castles hasn't been popular since 2011.

misbhv > vetements

Oh no you fucking don't.

I'm not a big fan of Vetements myself but it's obvious that MISBHV is just streetwear trash that's even more derivative and not interesting as Vetements.

;)

I'm a fan of the blue shirt, but that's it, really. Maybe the middle one. But mostly the one on the right.

#FUCKTRUMP

Fashion designers and fashion press seem to have this archetypical "youth" that doesn't have much relationship with the majority of actual young people.

lol its not like gosha was the first one to do any of that even in the high fashion world...

4 is objective best girl

am i reading...productive and intelligent discussion on Veeky Forums?

Yeah that link he provided was pretty cool. thanks dude

>Fashion designers and fashion press seem to have this archetypical "youth" that doesn't have much relationship with the majority of actual young people.
Yeah, pretty true. Has this always been the case, or is this just the actual youth of the 90's being recycled along with the clothes?

No

First we should clear an annoying semantic problem: concept as a word is very much design-oriented, while conceptual has come from fine arts, and does not always translate so well.

So, let's take "I like blue". "I like blue" is a concept, maybe not very developed one, but a concept nonetheless. The person following this concept - or idea - will make the best and the most aesthetically pleasing blue clothing he can, and if he/she is talented, works hard enough and has a bit (a lot) of luck, can became the talking point of the season.

Conceptual, however means that the value of (in this case) clothing is based on the idea (which annoyingly enough also in this case is called a concept), rather than the aesthetic or the production quality -measures of the product. After all, the two can be seen as subjective measures.

In the case of Vetements the value of the brand is very much conceptual (as in the case of MM). From the conceptual point of view we've already disregarded the aesthetic quality (too objective) and in case you've never seen Vetements pieces live, I can tell you that they are not that great quality (or even if they were there's no hoodie in the world to justify that kind of price point based on quality-measure alone), what we are left to judge with is the conceptual quality. In this case it's not only very good, but it's more important than other two measures, thus classified as conceptual design.

Concept = idea
Conceptual = the idea as the highest measure

Sorry don't have time to write about MM now, but it's very easy to find material on them so go for it.

np.

TREASON.

Wtf do you mean Margiela is still very much Margiela?

You can't be serious.

MM has been boring for AGES. pls my african friend.

the ethos and dna is still there, i bet you don't even own one margiela piece lmao

concept and aesthetic kind of go hand in hand no?

>ctrl+f
>no drop dead fred

you faggots ought to be ashamed of yourselves

I have to disagree on that Vetements are trying to be rebellious.
I mean I can't think of anything that is rebellious.
Their designs are very spontaneous and they take other ideas and concepts and play around with them.
In a interview with Demna you hear him say that they design very fast and don't spend a lot of time on each piece.
So it's more of a playground where they play around with ideas and then earn some bucks while at it?
E.g. the dhl tee was made because it was the shipping service that they used.
And because dhl was very often late with shipping, etc etc they thought, why not sell a dhl tee?
And then people thought they made it because of irony and kind of a rebellious move, which it was not. I watched showstudio panel on vetements and they took up other point on why they were not rebellious which I'll not go into.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, I am totally noob when it comes to fashion critique and understanding haute couture and that stuff.
Please someone experienced correct me if there's something you think is wrong or disagree with.

no bullshitting, I briefly spoke to 4 last weekend in paris

t. 4

Note that I was just quoting someone else. I dunno if rebellious is the right word but it was just one word he used out of many. I wasn't expecting someone to latch onto that word as an operative phrase in the larger description. The stuff Vetements had been doing did come off as rebellious at the time though because it was kinda the opposite of the norm even if they didn't intend it to be rebellious.

Yes

wow u spoke to a girl, good job

i just thought it was co-incidental desu

Clearly I agree with you.

>one Margiela piece
>Margiela piece
>piece

KYS. Or post your modern Margiela....piece.

What's so wrong about saying piece?

what was she like
did you ask her to stomp on you

gross

d-does 5 have an instagram. she qt .-.