ITT: state the real reason why you're anti-capitalist

freedom

I don't know why you think capitalism brought "having to work" into our lives.

I am anti capitalist because my parents didnt give me enough attention and I have no work ethic whatsoever.

So you should be all about the classical liberal concept of capitalism. I mean, you sure as hell wouldn't enjoy a system that is literally "ownership of the means of production by the WORKING class" if you were lazy and had no work ethic.

Because I absolutely hate having my life be dependent on a privileged class of people and would like to be free of the bourgeois yoke.

>I believe in social institutions like marriage, military, monarchy, etc
why?

its a hypocrit system which is killing you slowly unless you are born upper class

I am against capitalism because my family was impoverished by it. My working class family (father was a miner, mother a cook in a school) lived well during socialism, after that we were actually poor. My parents managed to send my two older sisters to university whereas I had to live off a meagre scholarship and income from my part time work. My country's economy is shit now so I was forced to look for work outside my homecountry. In return for a salary (which is below average in fact) I am cut off from my family and friends and the whole network of life I know. I am not living, just scraping along, breathing with half a lung just waiting for everything to end.

We cannot choose our genetic qualities (born with enough brains to do STEM research or born with only enough brains to do physical labour)
We cannot choose our social circumstances (rich people, poor people, nice people, abusive people, black people, white people, it all decides where you start on the social ladder)
We cannot choose where we are born (Canada? Sweden? China? Ethiopia?)

Add to this the fact that we can't say for sure whether people have the free will to consciously decide what they want to do with their lives, and the whole thought of one man making millions while another struggles to survive and this somehow being "fair" and them both being "deserving" of what they get is beyond absurd. This is why a neoliberal capitalist system is morally indefensible.

I am not I just thing the government should have strong regulations to prevent abuse by the powerful corporations. I also think all energy production should be nationalized.

>monarchy
Nazism was inherently against monarchy, he purposely barred both Wilhelm II and Wilhelm III from regaining the throne because of how much he hated monarchy

I don't like certain characteristics of today's capitalism but I wouldn't describe myself as anti-capitalist.

>Personally, I'd like to be an artist or a philosopher, not necessarily an art or philosophy teacher who gets payed a minimum

so why don't you?

...

real communism has been tried and it was pretty great

no no no I can't even.. They are all transition states. I'm willing to allow 100,000,000 capitalists to die if we can eventually reach real communism. If capitalist countries had just left these countries alone they would've transitioned from state socialism to real communism.

I'm not, i'm a firm believer in private property. I'm more against the big corporations and monopolies, which are anti-capitalistic because they seek to destroy all competition and usurp the market for themselves.

I'm reading more about distributism and i like Chesterton's idea about property being a basic human right. Everyone should be able to live freely and independently from their own land, to work for another is pretty much an euphemism for serfdom.

Because capitalism requires infinite growth but we live in a system with finite resources

No, we don't.

Observable universe is limited faggot

German national socialism, yes. But National socialism as an umbrella term can have monarchy, considering it's one of those things that was the back bone of civilization.

Because they honor people. We once had hierarchy, and people were okay with it, because it was how the world worked, and we were happier. We have an egalitarian system now, and now people kill themselves left and right for no good reason. When republicanism and the declaration of the rights of man were introduced in france during the french revolution, they replaced Hierarchy with Equality. It spread to America, to Germany, and elsewhere.

Capitalism has caused the majority of people to become self serving assholes who don't care for anyone else. It's allowed corporations to actively fuck everyone they can and to forget that others need a helping hand sometimes. It's allowed sexist, xenophobic, bigoted, homophobes to get into power and run for public office. It encourages the bullying of the little guy and has established a class system that leaves a very large portion of the global population destitute. It enforces the idea that some are better than others and it forces almost every single culture that it comes into contact with to adopt it. The thing that pisses me off the most, though? Anarchists like me get treated like shit because of the association such a title carries. If you get to know most of us you'd realize for the most part our beliefs are that people can come together to help one another and while some are assholes, most are actually really decent people. People like trump label themselves as capitalists and are widely accepted even though a large portion are known to be awful people and they have little to no empathy.
tldr; capitalism has made a society where the worst people get glorified and some of the most generous get turned into villains

What country do you live in? Moldova?

>Utilitarian
>Against capitalism
>Pick one

Look at Scandinavia ty

Your family were impoverished but overall the average family benefitted. Unless if you do live in Moldova then no system can help you.

>The longer answer is because Capitalism is just an economically realized caste system (in that wealth sustains wealth and poverty sustains poverty, and upward mobility is barely existent).

This might be true in a purely laissez-faire context, but that's a bullshit hypothetical society that has never and will never exist.

In practice capitalism has varying degrees of regulation and emphasis on worker's rights.

I mean, here in Norway industrial workers make more money than many other sectors for example.

I have never ever heard anyone use that argument unless

a) They're talking about the distinction between communism an socialism
b) They're talking about a state that literally isn't even socialist like Venezuela.

I've never seen someone on Veeky Forums say the USSR wasn't socialist for instance. Yet for some reason every thread on communism is full of these right wing strawman memes.

>Neoliberalism
>Open borders, Ethiopians move to Sweden.
>It's unfair that people voluntary helped that man become rich
>What is social insurance

Neoliberalism = free markets + social insurance
Best of both worlds senpai.

>overall the average family benefitted
No they didn't.

Every poll in virtually every ex-eastern bloc country says communism was better.

Not him but some aspects of global capitalism are really un-utilitaristic, like the importance of media and entertainment industry. It's just that capitalism has a really good marketing and possibility to convince people that they need something even if they don't.

>What are diminishing marginal returns
>What are renewable energy sources
>Thinking about the long, long run I.e a millennium away

>What are renewable energy sources
Unprofitable.

Thus why capitalism would rather make fat stacks on an ever diminishing (and dangerous) supply of fossil fuels than ever consider not driving the human race to extinction.

But this isn't true though. The more technologically advanced the human race becomes, the more profitable renewable energy becomes.

I mean, Elon Musk has already become a multi-billionaire from making electric cars.

A very large portion of the global populace were destitute before capitalism. It's been capitalism that has lifted a significant minority out of poverty.
The world wasn't an anarchists utopia before capitalism. That's democracy which allows dickheads to get into office.

>What is Charity
>What are most corporations who don't fuck people over
>What is the government for

People were dicks before capitalism, now some still are but the system harnesses that for the good of society. People can help each other within the capitalist system, they can start worker owned companies etc.

The price of solar power fell fivefold in ten years. It's about to become profitable faggot.

Elon Musk has become a multi-billionaire from exploiting government subsidies and quotas. There's a reason why he's so rich yet fucking no one has a Tesla.

>The more technologically advanced the human race becomes, the more profitable renewable energy becomes.
That's literally, objectively untrue.
As the human race becomes more advanced the amount of energy expended advances with it causing an increased demand for energy, thus making finite energy resources (chiefly oil) exponentially more lucrative.

You can own and profit from oil, you can own and profit from uranium, you can own and profit from coal, but as of yet no one can own the sun. Meaning capitalism has little interest in it compared to more marketable resources.

I really like the colors gold on red.
Tired of red white blue.

Who are you to decide if they need something? Let each person decide for themselves.

>Entertainment
>Not happy

I know that a lot of media is shit, but people like it, it's there because they choose to watch it. I can go and buy other media forms that make me happy under capitalism.

Meeting so many poor people on the bus and hating their poverty

>Elon Musk has become a multi-billionaire from exploiting government subsidies and quotas.

That might be true as well as far as I know, but that doesn't make it in principle impossible to run a profitable company of renewable energy.

>That's literally, objectively untrue.

No it's not, wtf. The increasing technology will make all manner renewable energy sources more efficient, and hence more useful in an economy. This is just simple logic.

>As the human race becomes more advanced the amount of energy expended advances with it causing an increased demand for energy, thus making finite energy resources (chiefly oil) exponentially more lucrative.

This is just conjecture. Oil is easy to get out of the ground yes, that's true, because we have already have made the infrastructure, but your cynicism about future renewable technologies is just your own negativity speaking, and doesn't reflect the real world at all.

You don't need to own the sun, you just need to be able to convert energy to electrical energy from the em radiation the sun gives out.

Fishermen don't own the fish until they catch them. The beauty of the sun is that it won't run out in the medium term, unlike some fish stocks. But that's why we need the government to set the rules regarding the commons.

The world was MUCH more violent before the 20th century

>What is nostalgia for the time the KGB can around and beat my family up

Tbh Russia cocked up the transition and was left with an oligarchy/Putin.

>People choosing to kill themselves
>Inherently bad

Back to the Vatican please.

Nobody says "communism hasn't been tried" but it's reasonable to suggest that "communism has never been achieved."

Communism doesn't mean Marxist Leninism statism, it's a specific societal arrangement in which persons within a community hold goods in common and work for the benefit of each other, without any state structure. It's anarchic by definition.

I'm not a communist because I believe the state is a necessary institution to prevent exploitation and violence, but I can see why communism is appealing. The USSR and China both stopped trying to build communism a few decades after the revolution, because they didn't want to abolish the state.

>No it's not, wtf. The increasing technology will make all manner renewable energy sources more efficient, and hence more useful in an economy. This is just simple logic.
More efficient doesn't mean more lucrative, and capitalism chiefly operates on the incentive of profit for the individual.

>This is just conjecture. Oil is easy to get out of the ground yes, that's true, because we have already have made the infrastructure, but your cynicism about future renewable technologies is just your own negativity speaking, and doesn't reflect the real world at all.
1. This isn't conjecture, this is economics. Within the capitalist system the more profitable of two systems will always prevail in spite of things like efficiency and so forth. There's a reason why every country on the planet isn't mainly using nuclear power despite being infinitely safer and more efficient than most other methods available at present. Because profit incentive will always triumph.
2. I'm not being cynical about renewable energy, I fully believe it could be developed into something fit to replace oil in terms of efficiency. I'm cynical about capitalism because as I see the non-renewable nature of oil is nothing but an advantage in terms of profitability.

I know you can efficiently produce solar energy, and I know it's good.

But the fact that it's for all intents and purposes infinite, and un-ownable puts it at an economic disadvantage to the lucrative nature of private oil.

Prices of renewable energy sources are falling. Solar power is currently one fifth of the price it was ten years ago. They are becoming profitable, and will sooner if a proper carbon tax gets put into place.

>It's just nostalgia, bro
Dude, Russia has a 3.5% homeless rate.

It's a shithole that puts the USSR to shame, there's every practical reason to see that it was better in every possible way.

If the oil will no longer be profitable if solar power is cheaper. It doesn't matter if you can't own the sun, so long as you can own the energy that you convert to electrical energy and sell it.

>Essentially destroy your own society and let it stagnate for 50 years
>Be surprised when it's taken over by oligarchs and Mafia when the political alignment shifts

>Economic downturn due to low oil prices and responses of foreign governments to Russian aggression against Ukraine.
>Lack of competition due to the communist leaders taking companies for themselves in the 90's
>Spending lots of money on Syria

There's enough state funds to help those 3.5%, just they are being used on wars to feed Putin's appetite.

Cheaper prices for the consumer doesn't equate to marketable viability in terms of resources. Especially in terms of things like energy.

First and foremost it needs to be made lucrative to the bourgeoisie on the count that the customer can only really take whatever is marketed to them. Thus the power here lies in the bourgeoisie, leaving the decision purely in the hands of what can make the most money that they would then go on to market.

With solar energy you make money in building infrastructure for it, and with customers purchasing it. But you miss out on the element of making money in any kind of tangible trade. Oil does not have this problem. You can build the infrastructure to extract the oil, to process it, to get energy from it, you can also simply sell it at any point in the process. This ability and potential places so much more potential for profit within the product making it infinitely more appealing to investors.

As with energy you need not consider what's efficient and cheap for customers, but what's profitable for investors.

On the contrary the USSR built the entirety of their society.

And now capitalism has destroyed it.

Exactly, they have the money to be communist. But capitalism is so inherently corrupt and self interested that why would they?

>He thinks Communism means he wont have to work

Useful idiots indeed

>On the contrary the USSR built the entirety of their society.

lyl the only reason the USSR existed for 70 years, was because they had oil/gas, and they spent most of their GDP on military power.

If Russia turned into a social democratic capitalist country in 1917, instead of Commie dictatorship, it wouldn't be a shithole today.

The thing is that wouldn't make you as much money as oil would.

Energy at this point in society is just one step below water in terms of absolute necessity, the fact that you can own it and sell it with a demand that can only ever grow puts all the power over what happens in the hands of private interests. There's a lot of money to be made with oil on all ends of industry, and the people at home are going to pay for it anyway. Solar energy pales in comparison to the extent that there would simply be no point in mass private investment in solar over oil.

> it wouldn't be a shithole today
I love how every communist country was a future capitalist utopia.

The thing is Russia was good under communism, imperfect. But the best Russia has ever been.

And the fact that Russia could achieve it despite being such a shithole in the 1910s should tell you how much industrialized western nations could accomplish.

I said before, I don't want to receive less than my STEM friends. And don't come with "but, if you're talented" bs. An average and even below average engineer is guaranteed to receive a good salary by cheer demand, whereas with the arts one in a million becomes famous. I don't want to be a loser arts teacher in some school while my STEM friends drive around in their cars while getting a blowjob from their gfs.

>Le bourgeosie don't compete with each other meme

Nonsense - manifest, arrant nonsense. You can use batteries to store energy in so your point about selling the oil itself is moot. People don't buy oil for the sake of oil, they buy it as an energy source (and chemical source but that's a different story).
Those who own oil compete with the owners of solar panels, bringing down the price in an attempt to get more profit. If a whole bunch of people collude, there will be another person who undersells them.

I'm a Nationalist (aswell as strongly in favour of the Pan-European Nation). As the central factor of my ideal organisation I do not believe capitalism works in favour of the welbeing of my people. For me, the nation is a spiritual entity like Renan said. Capital knows no borders, it only seeks to makes us materialistic consumers in a universal marketplace. I don't particularly care for the left/right dictomony anymore, I'm probably fairly syncretic in regards to it

Sheer*

A friend of mine has rich parents and they let him drive around in their fancy car. He says girls will kiss him, sometimes give head, JUST BECAUSE he gave them a ride! When as an arts teacher would I be able to afford a car like that? When all the girls? These are legitimate male concerns, and if anyone denied he's a hypocrite. I don't want to settle for a lesser salary and an ugly land whale for a gf. So I'll opt for STEM even though I don't really like it and would prefer something else. This is why I hate capitalism.

I never said that, competition happens. But the bourgeoisie are chiefly competing for profits, in which they have a common interest in oil for the very reason of its scarcity.

>Those who own oil compete with the owners of solar panels, bringing down the price in an attempt to get more profit. If a whole bunch of people collude, there will be another person who undersells them.
That wouldn't happen.
Unless there's heavy government protection (unlikely thanks to the pure political clout of oil) of solar power to the point of it basically being a national project the oil industry would absolutely dwarf the fledgling industry and crash the entire thing. As happened with public transport in the USA to prevent competition with the motorcar industry.

Competition in capitalism isn't fair, it's always dirty, underhanded, palm-greasing tactics.

Is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia didn't run on greed? You think China didn't run on greed?

China forced people to share, that led to millions of deaths. It was only when they effectively legalised self interest that things started working well for people.

>They have the money to be communist

Social insurance does not mean communism thanks.

>Capitalism
>Corrupt

Individuals are corrupt, people were much more so under communism (what was the black market?).

Wow you hate a system where you are rewarded for what you offer other people. People don't want to pay you to fuck around with paint brushes all day, and prefer having people build houses for them. Therefore capitalism is bad.

Turns out the rich like art so maybe capitalism is the best system for an artist since they are willing to pay more.

>China forced people to share, that led to millions of deaths. It was only when they effectively legalised self interest that things started working well for people.
That's not true, millions starved because of retarded government policy that wouldn't have happened with democratic control of the means of production aka powerful individuals leaving people alone to do their job as they see fit.

>Social insurance does not mean communism thanks.
Never said it did, I said they have the money to be communist.

>Individuals are corrupt, people were much more so under communism (what was the black market?).
1. Exactly, and in capitalism the corruption increases exponentially as power becomes concentrated among a small group of individuals. But of course as with the millions of people who starve to death thanks to market induced famines capitalism likes to privitize the blame, it's not the system that's wrong, it's just an individual. Well guess what, individuals run the show thanks to capitalism.
2. Illegal, and basically a capitalist enterprise.

You mean the same government protections given to all other rival and excludeable things in a capitalist system? Property rights?

The oil barons aren't allowed to smash any solar panel anyone makes, let alone prevent voluntary purchases of solar panels.

As the other poster said you just have a really pessimistic outlook.

>The oil barons aren't allowed to smash any solar panel anyone makes, let alone prevent voluntary purchases of solar panels.
On the contrary I was suggesting they would just buy the operation out and crash it. Hence the example of public transport in America where exactly that happened.

Communist countries are surely known for their diversity and vibrance of culture while capitalist countries are known for being static and emotionless

Oh wait I think I have that reversed

>state the real reason why you're anti-capitalist
I believe we're living in the USSR, prior to it's collapse and the cracks in the ideology are starting to appear. I think the people in power are waking up to the fact that the neo-liberal ideology is failing, that they were not just "doing what works" as they thought they were and that they were just as ideologically driven and blinkered as the clerks in the former USSR. That said I think it will be a while before the common man becomes convinced of this failure and hopefully they will correct the course. Unfortunately I think there are still many who are bound to this ideology, and a great many more who know that it is not working but who don't know what else to do.

Put simply: I don't have a fucking clue what's going to happen in my lifetime and I suspect that's because I've completely lost trust in the capitalist system. I think I will most likely move away from the west before seeing it consumed by the rabid dogs who have gathered to consume it once it founders. If this website is anything to go by the younger population have already completely degenerated

>Capitalist mass culture.
>Diverse or vibrant.

a system that is based on a fallacy.
the fallacy of property and ownership.

a system that spawned slavery, servitude, imperialism, wars, oppression, and devastation of entire ecosystems and continents.

a system that promotes the sociopathic to power to exploit and prey upon others

>People's communes
>Not forcing people to share

>Market induced famines
It's strange, most famines tend to be caused by interventions in markets, not by markets.
Markets provide the largest incentive to produce food, guess what, more food produced less famines occur.

>Individuals don't real

Public transport is a different story to solar panels.
You aren't going to have another tram system built in a city if the other one has been run down but not taken down.
Oil barons buy solar panel company, another springs up. Owner of another company(not in oil industry) see that they could make lots of money from underselling the oil barons, invest in solar company.

And what's the problem with that? Don't free market apologists say that everybody should pursue their egoistical interests? Well my egoistic interest is to work, to the best of my abilities, to bring down this system of inequality.

>Not forcing people to share
I see you learned all your history from Fox News so let me fill you in.

Collectivization in China actually went pretty smoothly. What caused massive famines was government agricultural policy like taking the deeper earth to the top (trading fertile topsoil for barren rocks) and exterminating sparrows (causing mass insect infestations).

>It's strange, most famines tend to be caused by interventions in markets, not by markets.
The Irish potato famine happened precisely because of capitalism.

>Markets provide the largest incentive to produce food, guess what, more food produced less famines occur.
Pretty sure the need to eat is the chief incentive to produce food, bro.

Bullshit.

Back to r/fullcommunism please

Le capitalism caused slavery/wars meme

> another springs up
People don't just have the money to build solar power stations all over the place lying around.

>Bullshit.
I know. I just like being melodramatic.

>capitalism doesn't cause slavery and wars.

I am anti-capitalist because I am emotionally, mentally, and in comparison to my peers, physically a stunted, sad child jealous of people who found a way to make the system work for them so I take it out on them in my totalitarian revenge fantasies where the working class will listen to me about how good communism is and help me kill all those mean chad business and STEM majors.

Fucks sake there's even an art major in here talking about how he can't have a nice car and a gf because of capitalism. This shit writes itself.

nope
tribal natives of africa, asia, americas would like to disagree w/ u

these people lived in abundance of food while laboring only 8hrs per week, while being hunters and gatherers

HGs had the greatest leisure time spent on tribal dances, stories, singing, sex

anthropologists compared the sickly, pale, weak, depressed, diseased, overworked Euro of the 1800s w/ the healthy, cheerful, and free aboriginals and concluded that white man's society is suicidal and antilife

>Oh yes 1840's Ireland is the prime example of capitalism.

I said most famines didn't I?

>Need to eat

Ah yes, all of those farmers who only produce enough food for their families. They don't bother producing more due to profits at all.

>Fox news
The communes still forced people to share.

>Capitalism is the sole cause of slaverly and wars
>Those things didn't exist before capitalism at all.

The Irish famine happened because the British saw the Irish as being subhuman.

ok tuffnutz so when da fug did capitalism start according to ur autizm

>What is lending?

The thing is they're still happening.

The recent Malawian famine was largely caused by IMF imposed free-market policies, numerous famines happend in British India well into the 20th century, capitalist markets aren't very good at efficiently distributing resources.

>Ah yes, all of those farmers who only produce enough food for their families. They don't bother producing more due to profits at all.
Did I say sole incentive of chief incentive?

>The communes still forced people to share.
I know, and that's a good thing.

This is the best post in this thread.