New fag here, got a question

Blue origin is wrecking our shit by stealing every good worker we have.

We have military contracts for the next 10 years so that's not an issue.

unfortunately, this. unions make prices go up and Boeing will just hire another firm

work is shittier, you have less control, probably all mexican

Op here.
Ya that's my thinking.
They keep wages below Boeing's on purpose to they can make parts for em.

Our F35 and F22 contracts don't make as much money because of fewer parts being made.

this.

OP, the bulk of a union comes down to one thing: money. And the secondary small thing: treatment.

If an employee can show that an owner, a board and a few execs are making a fuckload, while all the workers are only getting a small piece of the pie, then that is powerful data. She could just show that info to the workforce, and boom all the employees will go, "uh, yeah lets unionize".

It really just depends on your situation. If you are being paid well and the treatment is good, then I wouldnt go on the union bandwagon and just let it go. But if you know you are being paid badly and they are treating you badly, then look into the union and see what the facts are.

> they'll just find someone who will work for cheaper

yes this does sometimes happen and it's a risk of unions. It depends on the particular workers and how skilled and unique they are in what they can do.

If a business owner can find an easy and equally talented replacement they will, but if the replacement is shit and will only save the company a few percent, then they are forced to play ball with the union.

If the business is good, it works. If the business is not good, it doesn't work.

My local example: Goodyear plant. When business was good, they were doing good. Workers and employers would hammer out good wage deals, probably better with the union for the workers than what the employer would ever give, and yadda yadda. Past ten years? Unions have fucked the employer and the employees over. Pensions cut. Unable to stay competitive. Extended furloughs and "strikes" and every other shit. You're probably not making more now than if you would just work. Union expensive and not offering very good protection.

So, if you're in a steady business always going up or a fucking gov't job like a teacher? Sure, unionize. You're not going to get power any other way. Are you in a competitive market (aerospace) where you have to respond quickly (aerospace) and efficiently (aerospace) and the company already has a profit-sharing plan set up (your company), don't fucking unionize. You don't need to pay middlemen a bunch of money to ultimately fuck you over and make you a dinosaur. Especially when 90% of client base is a fickle megagiant like fucking Boeing. You will be fucking yourself over. What dumb employees need to realize is that sometimes there are tough years, and sometimes you have to weather them. But management needs to make employees see that they are on their side as well by being lean, efficient, and reactive. If your management being fat cats has led to this smaller than normal profit-sharing check, then they should be scared, and they should know why they are scared. They don't want a union, and honestly, you employees probably don't want a union, but let management know this is true ONLY if they run a tight and effective ship without a union.

So what ur saying is use the threat of a union to get some improvements.

Because management isn't being lean about how they are making new parts.

Theres 2 worlds in the workforce, One side is the union side where people are overpaid and underworked which basically makes the company lose jobs.

Then theres the complete opposite spectrum where a company is full jew mode and pays workers complete dick wages but gets all the jobs.

This is especially prevalent in the construction industry.

I'd love to be somewhere in the middle where you work hard but are also paid a decent wage. and not expected to cheat and cut corners because you have to work faster or you're laid off. Extremely easy to lose your job because they can just hand you lay off papers because they are "slow" and then the next week hire a new guy in your place.

There's no labor law protection for employees in the construction field.

>People on Veeky Forums thinking that union busting is legal.

Don't fall for it guys. Once the company is compelled to enter into collective bargaining through the NLRA, there isn't much they can do to just fire all the union workers and replace them with contractors.

Well Boeing just built a plant in Sounth Carolina that doesn't have a union.
They then pay ppl $11 an hour.

Funny thing is, that SC plant makes 23% more parts than their Union counterparts

like i said the vengeful bitch wants to bring down the company. she doesn't care for the employees.

Could you ask for a one time bonus to not sign to unionize? Would it be cheaper in the long run for the company to give everyone $5000 to shut up than to unionize?

That's illegal.

Have fun cutting each other's throats in a race to the bottom. I enjoy my benefits and higher pay.

Remember kids: right to work really means right to work for less.

My brother just joined the TWA 250 after being lied to about his pension and how it will be protected. And now he says it's the worst job decision he's made.

He'll be stuck for the rest of his Union life paying for the senior people to retire on his dime.

And it'll be 20 years before he can touch his pension... which will be guaranteed bankrupt because not enough young people are joining to pay for the older people to retire.

The pyramid shceme is up...

You can only rob peter to pay paul as long as there are more peter's joining the Union, but union membership has been dropping like a rock and young members are F U C K E D.

>Thinking that failing pensions are unique to unions.
Shit son, SS is about to become insolvent. Good thing I'm not riding that train and my pension is safe and out of reach or the general public.

Good god.

You sound like a caricature of a typical Union goon, memorized your Union pamphlet talking points and everything.

Unions are good for pay, but make sure there aren't readily available, cheap replacements

A union is as strong or weak as the members make it.

There are some bad ones and good ones. I like mine decently enough. It negotiates us a decent contract, and protects us from the company walking all over us. It's far from perfect. As far as pensions go, mine isn't with the a union.

>30106▶
>You'd be a fool not to unionize. It gives you power to ask for

Shut up you socialist cuck.

>QUESTION 1: what could she have possibly have taken that makes them so scared?

Probably pay scales or management remuneration.

>Q 2: would a union even be a good thing?

Maybe. It depends on whether there is a severe disparity between the pay received by the management/owners and the low level employees.

More than likely though, it will stir shit up and cause the business to fail.

Spoken like a true company man. I'm sure if you suck more corporate cock, at the expense of your own personal profit and livelihood, that the boss will even invite you to the christmas party this year you sorry piece of shit.

You make me sick.

> Subcontractor pays employees 14 bucks an hour to assemble state-of-the-art stealth aircraft
> Then they wonder why it flies like shit

It's like they want the US to loose the next world war

>It's like they want the US to loose the next world war
kek all China, Russia and India + EEurope have to do is outlast the US for the next 50 years when it becomes South Africa tier.

youtube.com/watch?v=zN8kGzHH00I

Unions have out-lived their usefulness

>apply for position in union
>sorry no openings
>bob is in union
>bob's son just turned 18
>bob's son applies
>welcome aboard bob's son

unions were created to get rid of the shitty working conditions that people died in. We are passed that stage of the game now so they generally dont have a purpose anymore

>Company men trying to get you to work for less because unions "aren't useful."
You'll probably get a few idiots with that, but you need to step up your game.

Collective bargaining is a powerful tool. It's how athletes command such high pay. It's how you can make more money too. With all of your brothers negotiating together, you can get much better working conditions and pay.

But what happens when theres no more work because your wages are so high that all the other companies under bid you and you're stuck with the choice of working 3 months of the year with the union cause you're layed off for the rest or you work for some dick who has work for you year round but pays you significantly less?

Thats the situation in the area Im located in. All the union construction work is gone because they can't compete with the non union companies

Stop cutting each other's throats in a race to the bottom.

The collective bargaining process isn't a one way street. The company gets its say and it has a very powerful say.

construction unions are nation wide, it doesnt matter what company you work for, if that company is a union company, then they all pay the same wage.

I agree with you when you say to not cut eachothers throats to the bottom but I am not someone who has a say in the matter.

Not if you essentially scrap the entire part of the business, then hire other entire businesses to do the work. Kept only the back office and the sales staff.

>It's how athletes command such high pay

...really user.

The difference in my area between a private company and a union company

union
>40 bucks an hour plus travel pay, mileage pay and full benefits

private
>20 bucks an hour with no benefits and no travel pay and no mileage pay

forgot to add

union
>double time after 36 hours and after 8 hours in a day

private
>lucky if you even get paid overtime(1.5x) after 44 hours.

The MLBPA and NFLPA are very powerful unions that can hold their own versus 30+ billionaire owners.

I'm not very familiar with construction unions at all. My industry does unions and contracts a bit differently. Whenever our contract expires we don't get to strike or stop working, we have to keep working under the old one until a new one is signed. This sometimes takes 5 years.

Start your own company if you hate it so much. Union workers are overpaid clowns that leach off of society.

either way, I dont think guys that are part of the union are going to ask to be payed lower so that they get more work lol

No, union workers are paid what the company deems they're worth. If the company thought they were asking too much they wouldn't sign the contract.

The difference is that a union will get a better deal than you will by yourself.

I wouldn't expect anyone to do that.

I like working for a big corporation. They pay decent, offer full benefits, great retirement options, and an enjoyable work environment. I don't think I'd bother dealing with a union unless they were offering me training in a skilled trade with a high enough base pay to offset the potential lack of work.

construction unions are like a giant union hall with workers on standby,
when a company needs guys they contact the hall and ask for x amount of guys for a job that lasts x amount of weeks etc
the guys at the top of the list go to the job until its finished and then go back to the union hall and are now at the bottom of the waiting list.
As companies call in and ask for guys, you move up the waiting list.

How loose we talkin' here? I bet Murrika will be hella slutty during the next world war. After all, Florida looks like a giant penis.

Dude, it's fucking assembly. It's not hard work.

I would agree mostly except for long hours.

There's no reason for a person to work over 10 hours in a day, and no reason for a person to work over 40 hours a week. Our lives and society simply to not have these labor requirements.

And yet companies still require this kind of thing all the time.

I'd say, thanks to HR nazis, that treatment these days is actually pretty damn good.

But long hours is still something many industries need to correct.

I don't care what you do, when you work a 12 hour day you come home feeling terrible.

yeah and it takes away your time from everything else. your boss expects you to work 50+ hours a week and then you still have all the at home work you gotta complete
>cut grass
>do groceries
>do laundry
>clean living area
add in commuting time and you have no time left for yourself. Its extremely draining

Yeah it's especially strange that hours have gone up as we now have all this technology that should make our lives simpler, and quicker...

Whoa, it's like you want to negotiate the terms of you and your coworkers employment. I bet a union wouldn't be at all useful for that...

dude unions dont work in every environment. You have no argument
refer to the following:
Unions are great in a fantasy world but they dont 100% work in the real world

Not really, they condition us to be consumers from birth so its easy for them to sell us shiny baubles that "create' jobs and industries that would otherwise not exist and have no bearing on life quality.

Furthermore they account for economic growth / health by GDP - but that makes it seem like we're getting ahead if we have 10 guys working to dig holes and 10 guys working to fill holes even if we paid for the hole digging with deficit spending and the holes don't add anything to anyones life.

Google "early retirement extreme" , the finance and real estate / insurance sectors of the conomy have ballooned so much (the sectors that are essentially just leeches on real productivity from capital and labor) that even a vegan who bikes everywhere and barely has any electronics living in a "tumbleweed" house (tiny house) needs like a quarter million dollar nest egg to escape the rat race.

>thinking workers exerting influence in the workplace is inherently wrong or a fantasy.

how are you supposed to do that when another company will just underbid you because they have retards willing to work for peanuts.

yeah when these bubbles pop and the slate gets wiped. It will be much smoother sailing. Im actually excited for it to happen.

By not engaging in a race to the bottom to cut eachother's throats? By understanding labor laws and setting up more locals?

I don't know man. I already have my union and can sleep easy at night knowing the boss can't fire me because he doesn't like my face.

How do we go about forcing every private company to unionize?

Sign that pledge card OP.

Anyone that isnt union is a cuck.

If your employer has market power unionizing is a good way to remove it. Construction is a great example industry. Unfortunately, modern unions tend to emphasize seniority over everything, meaning that it's likely you're going to get shafted if you're a new employee.

If your employer doesn't have market power then unions collect fees and do nothing for you. For example, I'm a programmer. I wouldn't join a programmer's union unless the job market changed radically, because I can just post my resume on Indeed and get 10 headhunter calls within a week. If I dislike my working conditions, I can just leave. No reason for me to join a union. Of course, I work for myself right now, so forming a union would be farcical.

Remember, Unions are a way to bestow market power. If your employer is paying optimal wages, asking for more is just going to result in them firing people or the company collapsing.

>boohoo seniority

Fuck off. Seniority exists in every work place. Unions help to codify, establish, and apply it fairly. Put in your time and you'll be holding the top jobs.

I never said that seniority was a bad concept. There's a reason that the wizards who have been doing C graphics drivers are going to get paid more than me—they're better at the jobs.

The problem is that modern unions tie your wages and benefits entirely into how long you've been in the union. This is total shit if you're a young hotshot who's extremely good at his job for his age, because you have no chance to advance faster than anybody else.

Again, I do think Unions definitely have their place. There's many industries where unionization is necessary. But there's certainly cases where a union is going to hurt you.

My union negotiated a contract in where I went to 100% rate of pay after I finished training. Outside the norm for my industry.

Unions aren't for free lance workers, but for anyone working in any sort of a sizeable company, I'd say they are invaluable.

That's great. What do you do?

I won't go so far as to say that they're invaluable for any sizable company. If you're a software engineer at Dropbox or Apple, for example, a union is just going to take fees and do nothing. It's more efficient to just switch jobs if you don't like how you work, and union pressure isn't going to do anything to wages because your wages are already extremely high, combined with the seniority problems I mentioned earlier.

Unions are good for the below average workers who get to coast on the achievements of the above average workers. It does also tend to make some people a little lazy, which is bad for the company in the long term. If you don't give a shit about the company and don't care about keeping your job for a long time then go ahead and join the union. Just remember Detroit, the unions and nig-nogs voting in democrats killed a lot of really good jobs for a lot of people.

I work for the railroad.

>Commence people shitting on me.

I've applied to work for CN numerous times and I never get an interview.
>makes me wonder if I answer the behavourial questions wrong.

I work for the CN.
They pay amazingly, but you would probably hate this life.

Oh, how did you answer the question about the postal office efficiency?

postal office?
I only had questions that were directly correlated with behaviour towards other workers and working by yourself etc. taking risks.
I applied for an electrical positon and i said I had no problems traveling and being away from home etc
Those questionaires are total horse shit if you ask me.

Did you ever take the mini wunderlick test?

nah what's that?

The wunderlick test is a test they give to nfl players (normally quarterbacks) entering the draft to gain an idea of their problem solving and pattern recognition skills. It's like an IQ test sort of.

When I applied for Cirque du Nacional I took one online that was actually trademarked as wunderlich.

There wasnt any test similar to that in my applications at CN, The test was similar to the behaviour questionaires I did when applying to hydro one and OPG

Hmmm... I took a beahavior test one too. I also had to take a timed paper test at the interview to determine my ability to understand switching. If you failed that one, you didn't even get to interview and went home.

I never got past the application part, Thats why im saying I wonder if I fucked up the behavior test that you fill out online when doing your application

Also you apply at a place like Hydro one and they contact you fucking 6 months later saying you didn't qualify...lol talk about fucking the dog in HR

I don't know man. I can't recall how I answered mine. I've heard you need to go all or nothing, though.

I will say this; I declined to state my race or ethnicity. I don't know if that'll help or hurt you. Where do you live anyways?

Niagara region area

Oh, you're a leaf.

I work on the old IC. Shit might be different up there.

yeah man
I don't think I'd have any trouble with any problem solving/pattern recognition tests cause I applied to the military for an electrical position and they said I scored high enough on their tests to be allowed to do any job that they have.
I doubt I'll pass the medical though cause of food allergies.