Christianity in Asia

Maybe they thought it was true
Nah that'd be a horrible explanation

I think religion in general should be seen more in a political context. Philosophically, religions are generally equal (all have smart and wise adherents, etc) so if you have a mass religious conversion it probably has political implications (like Akhenaten trying to consolidate power away from the priests by pushing for monotheism under the Aten)

>Korea
>Major civilization
T. Kim

This
Explain the conversion of the vikings though. Thats one scenario where I dont understand why they went from completely hostile raiding monasteries to converts within a century or so

They raided monasteries because they were easy targets with alot of valuables. The people raiding were usually poor peasants. It had nothing to do with religion.

/thread

Christianity is way more appealing than Viking religions because you don't have to sacrifice your goats and slaves to the J-man, but you do to Odin. Also, you don't have to die in battle to get into heaven.

You know you also had old converts from Christianity first spread there, with St. Thomas and the Nestorians and stuff?
So, it had some appeal among a bit of the population naturally, even without europeans

>Christianity is way more appealing than Viking religions

The thing that a lot of people do not understand much about the Norse religion is that it was heavy divided and political in how it was done by the time conversions to Christianity started to become common among them. One could almost talk about the subject in the plural, that of religions rather then of a religion. They mostly shared the same mythology but had extreme varied rites, morals, and so on. Conversion was a way to get around that issue for a ruler.

>there is much more depth in terms of religious practice and thinking

Just because your protestant parents were uneducated as fuck doesn't mean all Christians are.

>but I don't get why other peoples would convert to Christianity.

Because it's true.

Not sure about Philippines but Korea persecuted Buddhists for centuries under Confucian government. Currently Buddhism is being marginalized in their culture and is seen as a lesser thing compared to the Western Christianity.

Well I know Thor was popular with the poor while the landowners prefered Odin. Any source for this stuff? Documentaries? Books? Im interested

good points,

It is also like the HINDU umbrella, all these small local gods being stuffed into the same tent by outsiders. I was kind of just generalizing.

>>Thats one scenario where I dont understand why they went from completely hostile raiding monasteries to converts within a century or so
Huh? The conversion was a gradual thing that took a few hundred years.

See Christianity had much success in China. The reason is that the Jesuits showed the simularites Confucianism and Christianity, to not forget Heaven Worship is the second oldest religion in China.

The fact that most of the inovations during the Ming and Qing was from Jesuits also impressived the chinks.

Converting to Christianity did not really change the religious practices of the Chinese.

Also subjective, take your opinions elsewhere.

oooh
I like this, one of the things about Christianity is that when they encountered a new group, you could pick the best parts.
Heaven for the Chinese,
warriors and battles for the Germanic hoards,
monotheistic good guy for the Africans.

The Philippines converted to Christianity willingly because of 4 factors.
1) Mostly pagans did. Prior Spanish colonization, the most powerful Filipino polities were Islamic Filipino States. Largely because tribes in such states did not fucking kill each other just because the other guy lives on the other side of the river. Pagan Flips were bitched by Muslim Flips and subject to their raids and jihad wars. To be fair. Pagans also did this to Muslims and other Pagans. Difference is they can't unite for shit and are regularly in the losing side.

2) Spain basically played into the political system of the Philippines as yet another "tribe." Strong tribes = hegemony among the pre-colonial Filipinos, which is why many converted to Christianity among the native allies of the Spaniards. Heck this is how Islam started in the Philippines even way earlier in the 1200's-1400's. One stronk tribe became Muslim and others followed suit to be closer to the power.

3) Spain initiated a system of conversion for protection system called "Bajo las Campanas" (Within the Call of the Bell, iirc). Basically Spain erected empty fortress cities and told Pagans, "you can live wherever you wish here and around this fortress, so long as you're christian."

4) Spain allowed shitloads of syncretism to take place. Such as the veneration of Sainthood bordering close to Polytheism, amulets (this time, with Christian themes), magic spells (this time, with Christian invocations), and the rite of passage that is circumcision (important.).

In addition, the native nobles such as the Datus (Chieftains), Rajas, and Maharlika/Maginoo (Gentlemen) - especially from those tribes who allied with Spain at the get go- was even promoted to Minor Spanish Nobility and part of the ruling class. To this day, their descendants are active in politics

Oh and I should add: the Spaniards retained the military culture in the Philippines. From 1500's-1600's it was mostly native soldiers from the established warrior classes doing the conquering for Spain, who cannot afford to ship large numbers of men across the pacific, and these men still resembled their native pre-christian counterparts, with their native weapons and stuff, only this time with bits of european equipment, saints, and crosses attached to shields/armor/hats and so on.

Let's even add the Christian Japanese and Chinese soldiers bringing their own equipment to bear.

In short from the 1500's-1600's, Spain led a motley crew of Asian warriors. A European style force would not emerge in the Philippines until the 1700's, but even then Spain relied on local warfare knowhow when their own shit was BTFO by the British when the Seven Years War came to the Philippines. Since the Brits can't take ambushes for shit, turns out short swords, bows, and javelins were quite ok in jungle combat during the age of Flintlock & Bayonet.

Japan was actually the most Christian country in the 16th century until the Portuguese fucked it up by buying pagan Japanese slaves and pissing off Hideyoshi who proceeded to wipe out Christianity from the country. And since the days of Imperial Japan, a large percentage of Japan's upper crust have been Christian for some reason. Not to mention that Japan had a sizeable Christian population in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

>large percentage of Japan's upper crust have been Christian for some reason. Not to mention that Japan had a sizeable Christian population in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This is plainly false. Christianity was already looked down upon by ridiculously entrenched Buddhist-Shinto leaning elite. To say nothing of the Emperor himself.

Unlike in China where there essentially is no state religion, you can't divorce the elite from religion in Japan.

At best they're only curious about westerners. As Nobunaga was. But you can't say they were a large number were legit Christian, like Otomo or Takayama clans.

You seem to have a low opinion of Christianity. I wonder why.

How do you explain so many politicians being Christian?

I said since Imperial Japan. Why'd you cut that part out. When Japan industrialized many of the elite who were schooled in the West adopted Christianity.

There were?

I swear literally a few of the major clans converted. The rest being just plain tolerant.

>amidaism

Pure Land.

>the Seven Years War came to the Philippines

really why?

Yep. 8 out of 62 prime ministers were Christian, yet Japan's population is less than 1% Christian.

There were Spics there and Spain was the enemy of Britain during that war?

Also it seemed to be a nice landgrab opportunity. While they did take Manila, they failed to take the Philippines.

They expected the natives, whom they believed suffered under Spanish tyranny, to side with them. What happened was the Filipino natives declared a second capital in the North and resisted the British by launching a guerilla war against them. This happened because Filipinos spent 200 years by this point believing that protestants were benighted heretics who are whores for money and sell people to slavery.

Though the Sultanate of Sulu did side with Britain and used the opportunity to raid Philippine towns while Spain was down.

In a funny note, when the Seven Years War ended and Manila was restored back to Spain, thousands of Indian sepoys of the British expeditionary forces in the Philippines deserted Britain to live there (most in my hometown, Antipolo).

>PM

We were talking of 16th Century Japan?

What part of
>And since the days of Imperial Japan

did you not understand?

I think an important factor is the nature of Christianity (and Abrahamic religions in general) compared to the nature of Eastern religions.

East Asian civilisations didn't really have the understanding of "religion" as a specific set of laws/beliefs that one followed all their life like we do today. Religion was far more passive, and unless you had spiritual inklings to find out more for yourself, the most contact a common person would have with "their" faith would be performing some token rituals and giving alms/homage to the monks and masters. The common people were never really taught the nuances of the teachings they supposedly subscribed to, and religion was more a sort of just an accepted cultural thing than an active force in a person's life.

Not so with Christianity. Christianity makes every believer - including the common man - front and center in its worldview, and it's far more active/aggressive in organising communities and activities around following the faith. Plus, the Abrahamic view of divinity is far more accessible and digestible than most Eastern religions, so for a common peasant wanting some sort of comforting "higher belief," the easily-understood teachings of Christ the Saviour dying for humanity's sins are a lot more attractive than some vague notion of "desire being the cause of suffering and the impermanent nature of all phenomena." Asking the Lord who is with you always for help during life's struggles is much more accessible concept than being told to meditate on your own reaction to suffering or given some shallow invocations of a bodhisattva who isn't even the Creator of the Universe!

>. Plus, the Abrahamic view of divinity is far more accessible and digestible than most Eastern religions, so for a common peasant wanting some sort of comforting "higher belief," the easily-understood teachings of Christ the Saviour dying for humanity's sins are a lot more attractive than some vague notion of "desire being the cause of suffering and the impermanent nature of all phenomena."

Not necessarily. You're assuming first of all that
>East Asians have no understanding of religion
And
>Found solace in Christianity.

In China for example while Christianity had a lot of converts it also had a lot of critics. Christianity's lack of explanation for the family & ancestral spirits being some of the most glaring and discomforting from the Chinese perspective of things.

Portuguese Christianity was wiped out in Japan with their failed revolt, modern Japanese Christians are from American influence.

Yeah fair enough, I didn't really mean to suggest that ALL Chinese people immediately jumped upon it as soon as the Jesuits showed up, I was just trying to explain why Christianity has historically had such a surprising amount of success in East Asian societies.

I mean look at China today. After decades of state-enforced atheism, Chinese citizens are turning to religion in record numbers. But rather than look to their cultural roots for belief systems (Buddhism, Taoism mostly) they're going completely nuts for Christianity (so much so that if conversion rates continue as they are now, China will become the largest Christian nation within a few decades.)

>But rather than look to their cultural roots for belief systems (Buddhism, Taoism mostly) they're going completely nuts for Christianity (so much so that if conversion rates continue as they are now, China will become the largest Christian nation within a few decades.)

All Religions are experiencing a comeback. Christianity just outpacing buddhism because
1) It's popular since Westerners do it and
2) Buddhism bore the brunt of the Cultural Revolution more than any other religion in China.

It still has to compete with the Nationalism which is fostering the folk religions. In addition to actual persecution due to being a foreign-related religion which does not want to be registered like the rest of China's religions in a religious Committee for party surveillance.

>I mean look at China today. After decades of state-enforced atheism, Chinese citizens are turning to religion in record numbers. But rather than look to their cultural roots for belief systems (Buddhism, Taoism mostly) they're going completely nuts for Christianity (so much so that if conversion rates continue as they are now, China will become the largest Christian nation within a few decades.)

This is bullshit and not happening.
Chinese traditional religion had the biggest growth and appeal.
Christians make up maybe 60 million Chinese, and most are """""""Christian""""""".

Converting the retards and cuckolds is easy. Converting those in power and those who are true believers of another faith, is not.

>korea
>major civilisation

Obviously faggot. We're asking WHY though. Please don't make this about the validity of the religion, it's irrelevant. Iranians have also replaced their native religions, but with Islam and not Christianity. So obviously there are other factors at play in these situations than the providence of Jesus.

>Well I know Thor was popular with the poor while the landowners prefered Odin.

That changed a lot over the period of the 7th thru 10th centuries. It started out with the most popular god or rather goddess being freya, with her appeal being focused on the low classes. She was a petty stranded fertility goddess. Tyr appears to be the most popular among the upper class, and back in the day may like have been seen as the king of the gods. He was the war god of the era, and also the god of honor. The other popular gods early on were Heimdallr and Baldur. Then came Charlemagne and from the outside he violently up ended the order of the cultural block we are talking about.

Trade routes with the mainland were destroyed. Displaced peoples moved north and were willing to fight or fight for the local rulers for a small bit of land to call their. What was likely at the time a fringe, hyper violet, possibly cannibalistic cult became the most popular: that of Odin. The version everyone knows about is a later version after it had been "domesticated" by rulers. He was deeply popular among small land holders. They could afford the weapons and armor to go raiding. In a sense Odin was social mobility for that group. Odin demands human sacrifice, and that means either raiding or buying slaves ( which caused a increase in the value of slaves). This means that rulers are likely to organize raids, and thus giving the small holders more changes to make profit from those raids.

Thor became popular as a alternative to Odin worship because Thor did not demand human sacrifice but still put a focus on warfare.

>Comparitaviely to those of Asia such as Hinduism and Buddhism for example, there is much more depth in terms of religious practice and thinking

Read Hegel before you sprout bullshit. Buddha was only part of History so that Jesus can get ideas from him.

The first rector of a University in japan was a christian.

On the whole Islam is a lot more successful than Christianity is in Asia, but this might change in the future.

>not worshipping the Chinese younger brother of Jesus and getting several million people killed

*tips*

It's not. It has a really bad reputation thanks to a recent chain of events through the years.

japan would probably be a more christian nation had the atomic bombs not been dropped on it. the villages that were bombed were primarily christian. plus Christianity is on the rise in china and south east Asia. but the new playing field for Christianity is africa

Judging from OP's pic, Christianity has top tier waifus.

I say it's a good as reason as any.

>japan would probably be a more christian nation had the atomic bombs not been dropped on it
Are you retarded?

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the two biggest Christian cities in Japan.

China is one of the largest churches in the world

Nah, Vikings openly rejected Christians. It was a huge social taboo to be one and it didn't change overnight.

Christianity spreads everywhere because it's true. There isn't a good reason for the Vikings to convert, there's no reason for the church to be growing in China, there isn't a reason for it to have grown in South America and Africa. It just has.

Traditionally, Christianity has appealed to the lower classes. They have a fuckton more kids.That explains the growth perfectly, without veracity entering into the equation at all. Islam is spreading just as rapidly for much the same reason.

>Christianity spreads because it appeals to the poor, the poor have a lot of kids, and that explains the growth
100% delusional

>never adopt the Spanish language
Ehh, I'm not significantly educated on the history of the Philippines but I'm going to express a measure of doubt here.

Parents were from there and I grew up in the USA. No reason to learn their language so I didn't bother. Ended up taking a spanish class in high school and I actually started to catch portions of their conversations. For instance I hear them use "Trabajo" once and I asked them if they were talking about their jobs.

I still refuse to learn the language on the basis that it's a waste of my time, and from what I can tell even if I did there are a significant number of dialects, but I do, with what I've seen, think that if they didn't adopt the language, they've at least adopted some portion of the vocabulary. So there's a bit less resistance than your posts makes it sound like.

Actually, Christianity is a very hard sell in Southeast Asia. It has problems taking root in most of them due to a ton of factors (mostly because it is either misunderstood, illegal or fucking armed to the teeth in the case of Myanmar).

Even if there is a significant minority, it is looked down upon. In Malaysia, their leaders are """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""Islamic"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" and are trying to appeal to a populace that is growing more and more conservative and in Singapore, they are seen either as disruptive and arrogant or as servile cucks of the PAP (40% of the MPs in Singapore are PAP, and yet, the PAP arrested Roman Catholics on trumped up Marxist charges in the 1970s).

Idiot. All languages have loan words. Tagalog though is completely different from Spanish you tit.

Now, no need to be rude. Of course the language's mechanics would be really different, but I think there's a difference from making sure the Spanish language entirely fucked off versus adopting large potions of the vocabulary, but not the language entirely.

Hell if I remember correctly, to this day most of the Filipinos I've known have Spanish-y last names, which was a result of the Spanish colonization. I know better than to say they adopted the language, but I'm not going to delude myself into saying the Filipino language hasn't been heavily influenced by Spanish.

Not even the guy you were talking to first. Genuinely curious why you regard the Philippines as culturally rich.

>Not even the guy you were talking to first. Genuinely curious why you regard the Philippines as culturally rich.

I'm not the guy who said that Philippines has a rich culture.

> genocides, sheiks and polygamist rapes

Yeah senpai what a choice. Modern Iraninan christianity is spreading despite pressure from the iranian oligarchy

Okay, well here's another opportunity to call me an idiot and a tit.

I'm rather curious, is there a group of people/region that was conquered and had its language mostly uninfluenced?

Why are most catholic then?

You're an idiot and a tit.

It sounds like you hold a lot of western bias on religion, I don't think you will find a satisfying answer until you familiarize yourself with it

% deluded christfag.

>fucking armed to the teeth in the case of Myanmar
?

Why the fuck did you post that image?

The Karen in Myanmar.

It's a complicated mess. All I know is that the Karen are Christian, have an army of insurgents, and they fucking hated the junta.

What painting is that? Is it old or made by some anime fan? I like it.

Buddism has a kind of nihilistic world view — everything in life is suffering and attaining nirvana means you stop caring about anything and sort of drift in nothingness.

Christianity sends you to a heaven where you know eternal bliss, if you live a good life and accept the skyman and his son.

Eternal nothingness
Vs
Eternal bliss

When you put it like that I think christianity sounds like a good deal

Like one user said earlier: this is assuming that "Christianity wuz right."

For example: not coming back would be fucking terrifying for reincarnationists.

I can agree and confirm basically most of all this, as a chinese person.

Watching a modern chinese christian is like watching a trained monkey go through the motions because it watched Father USA do the same thing. There's a certain amount of occidental fetishism in it, and they lack a lot of basic knowledge.

Literally a third the christians I know (a lot) have asked me what High Mass was and why they do it. A good number of them had been practicing for 3 or 4 years. They asked me because for a period of my life, I had a foreign upbringing. It's a bit ridiculous t.b.h. pham