Faith

That's the problem with people like you. You never meet Jesus, but constantly form opinions on what He's like. And your opinions of Him suck.

>I've met Jesus!!!

*rolls eyes*

Actually that would be mocking the Holy Casper.

Yes, at least a billion people have. And billions more know who He is, to their horror. People like you, who never took the time to meet their Creator and find out what He wanted from them.

Kind of. The Holy Casper, as you say, is the witness telling you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

If you say Jesus is not the Christ, the Son of the Living God, you are calling the HC a liar.

By calling the HC a liar, you say He is doing the work of the devil.

That is blasphemy of the HC, and it doesn't end well.

Logically, there are several religions with strong claims that have survived for thousands of years.
If God's approach to humanity is through conventional religion, there is simply no conclusive case to build a life upon.
Even if you decided that Christianity is the true religion, you'd still have to select between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, and their differences which are rooted in history and complex theological issues. And note that only one of these can be true, since they both claim to descend from Christ exclusively.
Through further study you'll also find a thousand other philosophically viable systems of monotheism. There is simply no rationally convincing choice for a divine law-giver,

Personally, I'm an overall Aristotelian in my metaphysics, and I think the man said everything that can be said about God without invoking spiritual claims. Also, all Abrahamic religions have based their concept of God on Aristotle anyway.

He is a liar though;

Go on then, show me the photos of these billions of people with Jesus.

You mean a billion where born to people who where born to people who where born to people who where born to people who where to people who where born to people who where born to people who where born to people, who told them to BELIVE.

>The Holy Casper,
>the HC

Ha ha. You just committed the unpardonable sin.

That sort of belief carries a price tag you cannot pay.

No beliefs here my friend, only facts.

Photos.....of heaven.

Photos.....of every single Christian on earth.

kek

The funny thing to me is that even with those photos, you still wouldn't believe.

And if they were wise, they did.

kek

God has a better sense of humor than you give Him credit for.

Your "fact" is the unpardonable sin.

Your "fact" is a lie from the pit of hell.

>Photos.....of heaven.

Well yes, exactly.

That's just like, your opinion, man, pretty sure that nigger is a compulsory liar.

I've never even been to Weston-Super-Mare.

Now, I already blasphemed the holy ghost.
I guess that means priests wouldnt bother baptising me anymore because I blew it?

This is one of the worst theist arguments out there,

Most people wouldn't actually require earth-shattering incredible miracles to believe in Christianity. There's all sorts of appearances of God and his servants through the Bible that would convince reasonable people,
If the angel Gabriel appeared before me at this moment and told me to follow the true strand of Christianity, I'd convert on the spot.
If there was multiple, confirmed camera recordings of an angel descending from heaven in a public place, I'd also convert,

Fact: God has an incredible chance to convert the entire world via the means of modern media. If his agenda is to save everyone, why has he not done this? It's not blasphemy to question basic motives of beings with unconvincing historical evidence.

Kek.

What about the toast miracle seen by millions?

I like you.

Read Romans 1
It's pretty interesting KJV

He doesn't do that because FAITH. He has showed himself to some people and told them to share their story so others would believe and they still don't

That's simply not true. Thousands of people were fed miraculously by Jesus, and a week later, they're demanding He be crucified.

Noah told his neighbors for a hundred years that a Flood was coming, and nobody but Noah's family was saved.

Paul, the greatest apostle of Christianity, the man likely seated at the right hand of Jesus Christ, died alone.

You have not yet come to grips not only with your own depravity, but with the total depravity of mankind.

True, but what interests me is the nuances of their condemnation, not the general fact of it.

Everyone does this, especially the Christian theologians who have been debating what he really meant since before the council of Nicea.

Every lost person does.

No saved person needs to tell another saved person what Jesus is like.

> you just don't get it because you're lost
>"""saved""" people have """special knowledge"""
Then why have Christians been arguing about what Jesus was like and what he thought since time immemorial, sometimes going as far as to kill other Christians?

>presumption

No.

This is a history board, not a fantasy board.

These people lacked the divine spark.

Have you even looked at their beards?

They clearly had a divine spark.

Must be the greatest fantasy ever because more than a billion people believe it, it is historical, it happened and it's still here today.

I meant those who argued and killed each other of course, no person with a beard like that would ever lack the divine spark.

>Thousands fed
Conjecture. Why didn't Jesus just stop starvation right there? Why would the Roman government execute a man with unpredictable magic powers who could stop starvation and raise Roman standards of living?

>Noah told his neighbors a flood was coming
More conjecture, moverover a mesopotamian myth taken out of context.

> Paul died alone.
Probably true. And a damn shame. Doesn't back up anything you've said.

>likely seated at the right hand of yeshua
Yeshua died in Judea. Jeezus is a Roman propaganda tool to quell their uppity citizenry throughout the collapse of the empire.

>You have not yet come to grips not only with your own depravity, but with the total depravity of mankind.

Yeah I get it. Humankind is depraved, hypocritical, and in need of guidance. Doesn't mean pretending to accept conjecture on blind faith I don't actually have is a good idea. which would be intellectually dishonest to any potential Gods listening since I don't actually really believe they're there, even if I start going to church tomorrow.

Then again, people who claim their ideas aren't there own, but God's, are always right, even when they're arguing with each other.

Hell.
Especially when they're arguing with each other.

Yes, definitely keep this shit to yourself.

>These people lacked the magic woogie boogie powers to just unconditionally believe in crap they hear.

Yeah, It's pretty hard. I've been trying for years. I've probably typed more words to Christians than I'll ever speak, trying to understand how to believe when my brain just won't let me.

Maybe the Calvanist determinists are right.

>time immemorial

Your point was ok without the display of shitty vocabulary choice. There was recorded time before people argued the nature of Jesus. I'm not picking on you that much, though. Here, have a cartoon.

youtube.com/watch?v=KC0IQA5OUAA

It's your arrogant pride of life you have to let go of first.

>calvinist determinists

You mean monergism. I think it's right.

God - "i created you with no actual proof of my personal existence. Now, If you dont believe that i exist despite that lack of evidence, im going to torture you for eternity"

More than a billion people believe Hanuman the Monkey God is real.

You mean like Islam?

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”
Romans 1:20 KJV

And how many times has Hanuman the Monkey God revealed himself to people or did miracles in his name?

God - Mornin' Adam and Eve. Nice day for a walk. Let's talk a bit.

You - agunba balunga mufhhkehhkkehiie.

History is His Story.

"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs." Surah An-Nisa 4:171

Islam is a direct opponent of Christianity and a perversion. Pagan God and prophet created by followers because they want to sin and not follow the rules of the true faith. When I hear about a person coming back from death or being healed by Muhammad or his saints then will talk about Islam.

Lost people do.

Saved people don't.

Jeremiah 31
A New Covenant
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Your problem is you can't tell the difference, because you're lost.

Straight out of those super corny American Protestant adverts. Literally threw up

Fuck pisslam.

And a Muslim would say the exact same thing about Christianity. He would call the trinity a form of shirk and tell you to start praying towards Mecca, where the final revelation was revealed by god Himself

People stole my meme??? And are getting paid for it???

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>being this much of an infidel

Great argument

And any person with any knowledge whatsoever would show the muslim where the qur'an says the bible is the Word of God, that Jesus is the Word of God, that Jesus is the Messiah, that Jesus was born of a virgin, that Jesus ascended alive into heaven, and then show them this verse right here:

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

When the "b-but the bible has been corrupted" taqiyya starts flowing, you just ask for examples.

Islam, and Mohammad, are accursed, according to the Word of God, which the qur'an says is the Word of God.

What's that picture?

Why would a perfect being experience jealousy?

But they don't because they can't. They go out of their way even in their "holy book" to disapprove of Jesus then say yeah he's great. I've heard of many instances where Muslims were converted because Jesus came to them or healed them but not once have I heard Muhammad healed anyone or came to them to convert them to Islam

And anyone with knowledge of the Bible will show you that the original was written by the Jews, who don't really buy your whole Messiah stuff

Even in their og they basically say Jesus is the one but they still deny him just like scripture said

>perfect beings
>experiencing anything that isn't all things at all times
>doing anything

Maximum overkek.

no and let me help you out here. Imagine if you were at the pub with three people in it and you were talking to one of them. You are telling that man a fact but one that is not observable (ie like a force, or energy) and that man out right refuses the truth saying that because he cant see the subject it either doesn't exist or doesn't effect him. The third man in the pub was minding his own business and did not here your discussion and did not hear the fact. The man who rejected this fact looks like a crazy person while the man who never heard of this will look simple or under educated? In the eyes of a supreme being once you know of him you must worship him and give some form of reverence or respect while (at least in christian tradition) the person who never hears of the god is guiltless.

>I've heard of many instances where Muslims were converted because Jesus came to them or healed them but not once have I heard Muhammad healed anyone or came to them to convert them to Islam

And again, I can come up with plenty of Christians who will tell you that they were in fact totally wrong about old Mo and his book

They actually don't. If they were, they probably wouldn't remain Jews

This nigga got shit in his beard.

Yeah but did Muhammad or Allah come to convert him? It's different when people did it on their own versus divine intervention. I don't know anything about Islam, would you like to tell me about it honestly? Like values laws and rules. I need to understand more

>Yeah but did Muhammad or Allah come to convert him?

I'm going to guess yes.

Why can't it?

Guess or know? What did he say in his book

He read the Quran, the word of God directly recited to Muhammed. That's what the word 'quran' means, it means a recitation.

Ok well that's a little different then. Are u Muslim

No, I'm just using your stock arguments and apply them to Islam

Why

To show that you don't accept your own arguments when they're applied to an Abrahamic religion that barely differs from your own

Differs from my own what? And what arguments haven't I accepted?

Jesus you're dense... seriously, it's a little mind-boggling after reading through your replies.

Not him but he's trying to educate you on the fact that biblical scripture is NOT and argument by demonstrating to you that you won't accept scripture from the holy book of another religion.

Basically: your scripture quoting has as much affect on an unbeliever as quoting scripture from the Quran has on you.

Do you understand now?

Oh I see I didn't understand the point he was making. I thought he was a Muslim not an unbeliever. It makes sense now. Thanks

What if God doesn't care?

Not about humanity, but about humanity's belief in him.

There's no argument I've heard of the Abrahamic God, with all the attributes given to him, that makes him anything resembling a human in thought. I'm a Christian, but I've noticed that we (and the fundies in particular) tend to do the ancient Greek thing of anthropomorphizing God, acting as if He's basically a bigger, older, stronger version of us.

But he's not, that's the point. He's supposed to be transcendent and eternal and all-knowing and omnipotent and everywhere at once. Christians reaffirm this constantly, I've yet to meet one who treats God as a physical entity sitting on a cloud somewhere, but then they go and treat God like he's not, like he would think and act like us.

But we're not God. Even if we achieved apotheosis somehow we still wouldn't be the same thing because we would have been human once, which might impact our actions, while He was always God.

A being like that has no reason to care about belief. If I plant a garden I don't give a fuck if the carrots are grateful for their existence. To an entity that spans all of space and time and is the sum of all knowledge and ability and whatnot, we must be dumber than carrots in comparison. No, I plant a garden because I like how gardens look and smell and because I want to see it blossom.

Maybe God's like that. Maybe He made us because he thought we're worth making, not because he needs a bunch of carrots singing him praises.

Because it's perfect, and a perfect being would have to be completely fulfilled by its own existence. Jealousy would imply an unfulfilled motive, which is something only an imperfect being would experience.

>anthropomorphizing God
Mankind supposedly was made in God's image though?

I'm aware of that, but it doesn't really make sense.

We can't both be made in God's image in any literal fashion and have God be this perfect eternal omnipresent omniscient entity we claim it is.

Best asspull explanation I could come up with is that it refers to our more intangible aspects, the things that differentiate us from frogs and fungi - creativity and adaptability and a sense of justice and the potential for growth and all the other things no other critter has in any comparable measure.

We're imperfect in an imperfect world. The more you grow spiritually, the more you feel restricted by these bodies, because we are meant for higher planes

What do you mean by that? I'm not sure how that would make it easier for me to believe unfalsifiable claims, whose merit can only occur to me *after* I've already begun believing (which is the very thing I have such difficulty doing, you see, it's not a matter of *just believing* I tried to do that when I was a kid, and didn't know shit, and found that difficult.

I believe a religious community to fall back on and take refuge in might make me better off but I would have to lie to them about what I think to be accepted.

And I don't think what they think. I try my best to wrap my head around it, and each time it just seems like techniques of indoctrination mixed with special pleading. That is not to say the person using them is aware of this or has malicious intent, it's just seems to me like a social system at work.

Belief is difficult for me to understand. I'm not even sure I know how to do it. I have hunches. I trust things, But I am unfamiliar with the 100% unwavering certainty that so many faiths seem to demand form me. All of them at odds with each other. All of them threatening hellfire and dangling heaven just out of reach. All I need to do is believe, but how? Each time I ask. I get "Believe what I believe. This thing happened. It is known." regardless of what perspective they're coming from. I ask for proof, and I get historical documents that have been translated countless times, over which wars have fought, the content of which most people never read cover to cover, let alone memorize, let alone internalize.

Tell me how to believe.

Yeah I realized my fuckup as soon as I hit post, of course.

Poo.

Thanks for the Bakshi.

>Lost people do.
> Saved people don't.

Which sects are lost, which ones are saved, and why?

So how do you *feel* about his point?