What happens here?

Trading

The greeks built their colonies this way, don't know about the rest of the ancient world

One of the era's greatest merchant societies discovers that it really can't compete with the era's greatest military societies and is consumed

>One of the era's greatest merchant societies discovers that it really can't compete with the era's greatest military societies

It could though. They lost in the end, but that was not inevitable.

lots of salt reserves

VII/X

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So, player 1 for Hanibal and player 2 for Rome

Pre planned city though? This seems much more realistic.

WE WUZ CARTHAGE AN SHIT

romans chimped out and destroyed it

>romans chimped out and destroyed it
If anything Carthage was the one who started the Punic wars. They got what they deserved.

What were the relation between the Romans and Carthaginians like before the First Punic War?

They were mostly on good terms with each other. Both nations had fought against Phyrrus of Epirus. However while Carthage was campaigning in Sicily a small city asked for Roman intervention when the Carthaginians were about to annex the city. I might forget some details but that should be the broad image. However I think that the senate actually had a popular vote among the citizens of Rome on wether or not to go to war in which the people voted for war. Kinda seems like a YOLO moment in history.

The Senate could not decide whether helping the Mamertines, Italian mercanaries who had taken the small city of Messana now Messina in Sicily was actually the 'right' thing to do,since the mercenaries had conquered and controlled despotically a neutral city , so they did put it to a popular vote of the citizens who opted for war. I believe the Romans thought that they deserved to further spread their dominions to Sicily and saw Carthage's political and commercial presence there as a long term threat to that goal. Before hand they had signed some sort of treaty of non aggression around the time of Pyrrhos. I'm not sure there is solid evidence of that treaty but my professor in Roman Republic history said there was mention of one in the senate histories or something.

>If anything Carthage was the one who started the Punic wars.
lol what

Romans chimped out after the Carthaginians got a garrison in Messana first.

And Rome worked as hard as it could to start the Third Punic war, forcing the Carthaginians to bend over backwards and give up their arms and armor to maintain peace.

So objectively Rome started 2 of the 3 like the little chimps they were. Carthage didn't "deserve" anything, they were just merchants and sailors.

Who sacrificed children

Boniface did NOTHING wrong.

Of the upperclass when they fucked up.
A sure way to remind them of not not fucking up.

>moving the goalposts
Why?

Romans have a history of human sacrifice too anyway.

> not supporting post-natal abortions

Wow, what a misogynist.

> They lost in the end, but that was not inevitable.

top kek

2 gigantic wars spanning much longer than the infamous Trojan war with a body count that won't be seen till nearly 2000 years later, with a motherfucking genius for a general in one war and the strongest navy in the world in the other couldn't prevent Carthage from losing to Rome.

Dude really? You have some reading to do. Rome deserved its empire at that point.

Didn't Hannbils brother get sacrificed IIRC?

During the Mercenary War IIRC.

What point do you think you're making?

if it could have why didn't it? rather than face utter destruction, why not do what you can?

Carthage did not have a culture that lent itself to compete with rome in any way other than through trade. Look at the second punic war, they wouldn't strike the killing blow. They were weaker than rome not militarily but culturally.

1) Stop implying Rome was the underdog because it wasn't, both were relatively even but if anything Carthage was the one in the weaker position.

2) That poster was correct in saying it was not inevitable that Carthage lost and if things had gone differently Rome could have been defeated. If the people back in Carthage had stopped fucking around and managed to send a decent amount of troops to aid Hannibal in Italy he could have destroyed the city of Rome and left the rest of the Peninsula divided up among the hands of the other groups living in it who didn't like Roman control.

You can't make those sorts of broad generalizations and expect to be taken seriously. You don't know much about why they did what they did at that time, there have been a dozen retarded things Rome has done at different points or times where Rome got BTFO that you could point to and say they were inferior to other cultures.

>if it could have why didn't it?

It almost did. If any number of things had gone differently they might have beaten Rome. As the Romans themselves would readily admit.

To get this idiot to reply to me > Stop implying Rome was the underdog because it wasn't, both were relatively even but if anything Carthage was the one in the weaker position.

You are an idiot. Now that I've said the obvious, explain how Carthage was even or WEAKER to Rome?

>That poster was correct in saying it was not inevitable that Carthage lost and if things had gone differently Rome could have been defeated.

Hindsight is not a fucking argument. If Hitler had blablabla he would have won. Save your armchair general point of views for some other poster.

Holy shit, do these posters exist to enlarge my ego? Carthage had supremacy of the sea in the 1st Punic war and they fucking LOST! They blockaded Rome from Sicily and Rome still invaded. Rome beat Carthage at their own game.

Carthage had fucking Hannibal. How many dead Romans and Italians? His army weakened by crossing the Alps and he still won many victories against all odds. Rome never quit even for a second. They went into SPAIN too. Again Rome beat Carthage when they had the upper hand.

Carthage still lost. It just wasn't anything left to do against Rome.

You are the type to argue "Hitler couldve won if he just ..."

>You are an idiot. Now that I've said the obvious

...

Are you a real person?

carthago delenda est

Roman Carthage seemed to do pretty well.