Grade Inflation

Bitch you're from Germany, just fucking lie. If they try to check (they won't) just fuck up the process. They don't want the hassle.

what do you mean lie? If I manipulate the grades on my transcript they will know as every transcript usually comes with a verification link (mine does) which the employer can use to log on to the university and see the correct transcript and compare if it is the same he is holding in his hand. Or do you mean lie with the conversion? But isn't conversion supposed to be based on something? Isn't it supposed to be done by a professional translation company of some sort and verified with a stamp and everything? Plus, I am pretty sure the big companies have an extensive background check process. And perhaps they even have a policy of handling foreign grades, some sort of inhouse conversion. I would very much like to know what the official GER-> US conversion is (I only read Wikipedia but don't trust it)

>I have a feeling that in order to satisfy these demands, i.e. to keep your own graduates competitive, grade inflation comes into play.

This.

You are absolutely correct.

The whole educations system has taken on an "entitlement" mentality since the late '90s.

So many kids and parents now think they are entitled to good grades and a degree or else they'll complain, protest, or riot.

Same reason teachers/professors get no respect nowadays.

Niggers in inner city schools actually think that they're paying for a degree and get pissed when their ignorant kid who don't study fails. They will literally protest and picket your school and cry racism until you hand them a diploma.

There is no official conversion. I also don't have on one my transcript (LMU Munich) so I don't know if it's the case for "most" german universities.
They instead list your relative performance (top x%) for each exam and also for the overall grade average.

hmm, okay. So you receive relative % / quantile rankings for every exam you take and its printed on your transcript? The issue is: my transcript only shows the grade and no relative performance, as far as I know, only the final MSc degree certificate will show your % ranking / quantile. So I have to run to every professor and let him hand me my personal ranking on a separate piece of paper? That seems like a time-intensive and inefficient solution, but I am willing to do that if that is what it takes.

> btw. pic related is what Wikipedia says about conversion

>You need 80% for an A in the US (counts as 4.0 in the GPA)

No, that's a "B". A 90% is the percentage for an "A" (of course some teachers do a grade curve depending on the class). Extra credit also counts. An 80% sure as shit doesn't count for a 4.0 GPA.

I was talking about college level undergraduate courses, not nigger daycare high schools

There's no denying that public elementary through high schools have been dumbed down.

Some of the high school students I tutored a few years ago didn't even have to get the right answers to get full credit on math. They just had to show the work, even if the numbers were wrong

It was pretty hilarious to see someone who took Math Tech (remedial math) all through high school graduate with honors, and then see students taking calculus and trig not because of how intensive those classes were for high school students.

You're talking about high schools though, not colleges. You're also talking about blacks, which don't typically count when you consider demographics going for post-graduate degrees. Black schools have always failed to make the cut, look at St. Louis. I mean, let's talk about school districts that aren't inner-city slum districts.

Grade curves aside any grade from 90.0 on up is considered an A and worth a 4 in the averages. 80.0 to 89.9999999~ is a B and works out to a 3 in the average. It sucks that the difference between an 80 and a 100 is the same as the difference between a an 89 and a 90 but that's how it works for GPA.

Why don't they just use the % for everything? Your grade is 0-100%, your GPA is 0-100%, your everything is 0-100%. Make it 0.0-10.0 for style, if you want. WTF are these letters for anyway?

Like I've said unfortunately there is no official conversion. The table you posted is by no means recognized as a standard even if the Wikipedia page seems to suggest that.

Out of all conversion systems the one you posted is also probably the most arbitrary and untransparent I've ever seen because anywhere from one to three German Notenstufen equal one US grade (1.3 = A and 1.7-2.3 = A-). The average German grade is also assumed to be 3.0 which is also far to bad imo.

You can probably ask for your quantile concerning the overall grade average in your examination office (Prüfungsbüro).
So if your in the top 20% or whatever I'd just point that out. Any employer who is too retarded for this and instead uses an A=1, B=2,... system isn't worth working for in my opinion anyway.

at my college
100-94 = A
93-90 = A-
89-85 = B
84-81 = B-
80-75 = C
75-70 = D
69/below = F

Our college is notorious for inflating requirements and dropping you just enough to make you repeat your last semester.

Also the average age of graduates is 33.
Not even a community college.

Meanwhile they just built a new football stadium, reinstated the football program, built a baseball stadium, 6 tennis courts, a parking garage, and laid off and rehired 50% of veteran staff members

It's a US college, its been on several meme listicles for the worst college in America.

TL;DR, my point is, College is an unfair beast, and if you want a decent education, don't necessarily go with what's closest to where you grew up because tuition/living expenses would be cheap

Alright my bad. Then your exams must be ridiculously easy. Getting 90% in a German university exam will put you in the top 10% of your class while an A or A- almost seems to be the default grade in US universities.

The college loan bubble will burst because wages aren't keeping up with demand for colleges. As people continue to go deeper into debt you're going to see a shift away from student loans. It's inevitable. Many people with college loan debt aren't even paying on the loans anymore. The job market can't support all of these college grads with 100k+ debts. It's inevitable that these people are going to go bankrupt and they're going to drag the economy down with them.

So much this. A 9 in Europe seems to be fucking difficult whereas in the US it's not that hard.

I have a friend studying engineering in Michigan, he's having like 9s while here when he was at college had 4-6s out of 10 at it best (and trust me, he was not I hidden Einstein..)

Wtf

>btw I'm from Spain

Good question actually

>Some of the high school students I tutored a few years ago didn't even have to get the right answers to get full credit on math. They just had to show the work, even if the numbers were wrong

> What's 2 + 2?
> Seven!
> Close enough!

Shit like this is why I went from a "young idealist trying to make america a better place through education" to a old bitter racist that sees Liberals and their misguided Nigger policies turn america's education system from one of the best in the world into the shit fest we have today.

This is my general view on education also. My school grades were mediocre due to a variety of factors but when it actually came down to the application of knowledge and actual work I always excelled. A personal frustration is how people elevate themselves with their academic achievements especially when it comes to women. I don't know what it is but women excel academically but are terrible when it comes to actually real-world performance. It pisses me off because I'll be passed over because, on paper, I'm less attractive.

Grade inflation is a problem when students and employers don't know which schools are free of it.

Pic related, my school. I can't speak for the college of business, but engineering here definitely doesn't suffer from grade inflation. I've had multiple company reps tell me that a 3.2, 3.4 here is easily worth a 4.0 at most other schools, because other schools inflate their grades so god damn much.

I couldn't agree more. In economics it's called "private information", which is something you have and maybe a subgroup of employers, but if you can't communicate it to an employer who is clueless, then you're really at an unfair disadvantage.

this seems to be a fact, any idea how one could potentially profit of that collapse? Indeed, the college debt part is significant but probably insignificant to the overall economy unlike the subprime fiasco which led to the credit crunch. Is there a higher-education sector which one could short? One the other hand, universities aren't publicly traded, so shorting that sector directly won't work, perhaps somehow indirectly? Any ideas?

thank you, will try my best to achieve some international transparency.

> btw: stuff that would never ever happen in Germany:
insidehighered.com/news/2013/02/12/students-boycott-final-challenge-professors-grading-policy-and-get

This is why, in the US especially, the name brand of your university matters more than your GPA.

College debt is fundamentally different from things like mortgage that was behind the housing bubble, in that you can't default from it. Probably a few other quirks as well.

How to profit from it is anyone's guess. Presumably the best method is to actually work in a university as an administrator since they get paid ridiculous amounts of money to do jack shit.

It's funny because even though we live in an age of literally free information, people are just too stupid, lazy and dependent on our shitty education system to learn things. The purpose of college isn't education anymore, it's credentialism.

Maybe people will actually stop going to college, i.e. enrollments will decrease, but doesn't seem likely since everyone is so brainwashed into doing anything they can to attend. In fact IIRC the college going population is only increasing at this stage.

But who knows, maybe someday there will be a pop

>tfw only a 3.6 at a community college

should just end it all desu, at least my adviser says I still have a good chance of being accepted at a real uni

Why are all these grading systems so fucking dumb?

In my country you get graded from 1 to 10, with 10 being literally perfect and 1 meaning you got literally not one right answer on the test.

Also you have to get at least a 5.8 to pass the class. Pass rates are on average 60-70%.

Now I start to understand how it works and why it's much better to get into ivy league and shit.. USA uni system seems to be pretty fucked up, god...

Hi OP.

Ivy League student in the US here. Our grades are absolutely not inflated here and the average falls between a C+ and B-.

However, students who are very smart genuinely do excel and master the material and end up with all As. It happens. A lot.

Get over it you sad sack of shit.

lel no

I can't lie though, we genuinely do look down on people not attending Ivy League schools. Not sure what can be said about it though.

I graduate this year.

Don't worry. We look down on you people too.

Look more closely at Princeton on your chart you moron.

And if you consider that the humanities and liberal arts are FAR easier than STEM courses, then it makes sense.

Loads of students will take classes in things like urban studies, economics, etc., instead of the students with me taking all graduate math courses and working for our GPA.

The system doesn't account for that though in the slightest, so my degree, which is filled with graduate courses cause I skipped so much and worked for it on my own, may as well be the same as someone who came in and spent 2 years on calculus and then took the minimum undergraduate classes for a math degree.

This is why I report only my undergraduate courses and not even those taken abroad on my GPA.

This is the only way to level the playing field when even those in the same major are taking vastly different courses.

>Brown
Shit school to be honest.
Stick to Harvard, Princeton and Yale, the rest are shit.

>lying about your GPA because you feel that you are unfairly disadvantaged due to the type of classes you take
This is honestly pretty sad. Either man up and put in the extra effort for your difficult classes or just accept that you aren't the special snowflake that you think you are.

>thinking extra effort is enough to turn someone who skipped 2 levels of calculus and linear algebra to take graduate topology, graduate abstract algebra, and graduate level analysis
You don't understand how "hard" math classes work.
24/7 studying is enough to get a B- if you don't sleep, but it's still infinitely more valuable than taking the slow route and getting all As if you actually care about learning and taking advantage of the experience.

I put in the extra effort. But I shouldn't be looked down on by employers for doing so.

Post the grade curve of one of your so called "hard" math classes then.

That's all at once by the way and as a freshman. I have yet to meet anyone with a course load even close to that.

Average grade is 35%.
Grades curves to a B- and a certain percentage of students must have Cs, certain amount must have Bs, certain amount must have As. Not sure about the rate of people getting lower than C but it certainly happens often enough. But every professor is slightly different of course.

You literally just said that you had to study 24/7 to just scrape by with a B-, and now you're telling me that a guaranteed portion of the class will get A's and B's, and the AVERAGE grade is a B-? What a fucking load of bullshit you are spouting. If the grades are set to a curve, then you simply have to keep up with the other students. Just because the average grade is lower than in some other class doesn't mean you can just not count it in your GPA.

Nobody else takes 3+ graduate courses at a time.

By "study 24/7 to get a B-" I mean a B- in all the courses together.

The students who are getting As are almost certainly taking easier courses in conjunction with this very hard math course.
That's why.

I don't include it in my GPA because it's not an undergraduate course and it's absurd and rare for undergraduates to be taking even one, let alone 3+ at a time, of these courses.

And it was YOUR decision to take these graduate courses when you obviously didn't have the mathematical maturity to succeed in them, much less three at a single time. Sure, you may brag about how much more "advanced" you feel over the others, but judging from your performance in them I highly doubt you even remember any of the material in them at all, and you just took them to boost your ego and came into a cruel reality.

Lie about your GPA all you want. When an employer asks to see your transcript and it shows a GPA different than what is on your resume, your application will go straight into the trash.

>straight into the trash
Employers tell me I'm very ambitious for my decisions and that have more ownership, entrepreneurship, and pride in my work than any other graduates. Then they tell me how math majors must be "pretty smart" and completely understand why I would count my graduate course GPA separately from undergraduate (as if it really matters when you're above 3.6 STEM gpa in the ivy league). They see it as a positive.

Try again.

It will pop it's just a matter of time. As tuition rates increase the federal government is going to be increasingly nervous about guaranteeing loans that will never be repaid back. It'll start with FASFA caps and loan maximums, then the banks realize they're going to get taken to the cleaners as the feds won't guarantee certain types of student loans. You'll start to see a shift in the types of student loans that become available, and then finally a pop. The pop will be sudden I suspect, but everything leading to it will have been obvious. I think the first part is already happening. No one wants to be on the hook for 100k+ debts.

I am in my final year of an International Business degree here in the U.S (originally from London), and have a 3.3 GPA right now. I studied abroad in Madrid last semester (where they base their grades out of 10) and had a much harder time getting good grades than in the U.S. It seems as though European professors are much more likely to fail students for poor performances on a couple exams, as opposed to U.S professors who give credit to students for things like attendance, homework, group projects, quizzes, and exams.

>an A or A- almost seems to be the default grade in US universities

Actually, the default grade is a "C". They make it as simple as possible to pass so they can get you the hell out of class. It depends on the university obviously. No doubt our hardest school can be equivalent to your hardest schools. Rule of thumb: If the school has a high acceptance rate, it means it sucks. If the school is picky, then it's great.

OP here: thanks for the discussion so far, it seems that most people are aware of some severe inequality in the system.

man I wish we would get points for attendance and quizzes or even homework. How easy life must be. I mean of course then you would have to continuously deliver and work but I was always good at stuff like that, and at least you get steady results towards your final grade. In Germany mostly it's a final exam counting 100%, and in that exam you almost guaranteed to have some trick question involved. You either swim or sink - this one test is all that counts.

> interesting on the side:
Because most classes have no attendance (as far as I know most business/econ degrees don't), you could technically spend your days on the Bahamas and travel the world. Then return once every end of the semester to take exams - and you would be recognized being the same student as someone who attends every class all the time. If you think about it: it's a much more mature approach towards higher education where people have to decide for themselves if it's worth to attend. I guess if you are a genius, then it works towards your advantage, as you can do whatever instead of attending.

kek, try the swiss grading.
6 - Ausgezeichnet
5 - Gut
4 - Genügend
---
3 - Ungenügend
2 and everything below total bullshit you fucking retard

Everything below 4 is considered a failing grade. Grades are usually calculated by (Achieved Points) / (Max Points) * 5 + 1 , so everything below 60% of points is a failing grade.

To get an "Ehrenmeldung" - as in, special honouring in an apprenticeship, you need a grade average of at least 5.4 .

There's a lot of leeway in teaching styles in the US. So whatever you heard from your friends, do not apply to everyone. It doesn't even apply to the same school. For instance, some classes may not require attendance but if you want the best possible grade, you'll have to be there to do the quizzes.

I'm pretty sure you're just trying to find an opportunity to blame black people. Much easier than solving an actually more complex issue innit?

Also, here's how it goes in France :
[0 - 10] (

Where did you graduate? B. Sc. Econ and Pol. Science at Univerity of Cologne here

It always depends on the teacher here

>Employers tell me
But what do they pay you? I don't give a shit what employers tell you.

>Muh black people.

Though I agree that NCLB only promotes the coddling of students that come from and perpetuate toxic environments that aren't suitable for an edcuational setting.

But not all black people are terrible students lol.

>I used to be a tutor
I am interested in this.
Pls tell me more...

On mobile at work right now, but what would you like to know?

I double majored in math and biology in college.

I tutored mostly undergraduates, highschool, and a few graduate students, once it got out that I did a pretty good job

>I'm pretty sure you're just trying to find an opportunity to blame black people. Much easier than solving an actually more complex issue innit?

That's EXACTLY the problem.

Americans ignore the real problem:
>black kids don't care about education, and don't care to learn even if you spoon feed them.

And this is from the NAACP and other black academics... they realize the root of the problem is that a large % of American Blacks just doesn't value education.

So instead of dealing with the problem and trying to actually educate the people....

the easy way out is to simply give all these kids a passing grade and let them be someone else's problem.

'Merica! FUCK YEAH!

How?
I can understand that for something like english where you have to right a paper on opinions but for a subject like math, the answer is either right or wrong. Theres no gray area.

But you're implying they all don't, which isn't true lol.

Instead of trying to make a horse drink, I agree that NCLB should be abandoned, but you're trying to solve through discrimination something that can easily be solved more efficiently through meritocracy.

Is it different in Canada compared to the US
>mfw class average for final exam on a specific sunject was 30% I was in the top 5 with a 55%
>mfw i have no face
Thats just an example but my class had 300 students start out and maybe 40 graduated from the program.

Letting poor people's children down so that they drop from school earlier, live on welfare and raise their offspring in those exact same conditions sure sounds like a good idea to enhance the US economy and ensure urban safety as well as the overall welfare of the population. Because it's all about over-educating a very small percentage of the society.

Also here's another transcript from my first semester in CPGE.
I passed though, so don't bully

Ayy Lmao... This kids...

sure, I am in no way inclined to generalize.

impressive, which uni and degree if you might tell?

it seems as if this is from "The Economist", does anyone have the article, there must be an extensive explanation / analysis explaining this. Otherwise it's pretty ridiculous desu.

electrical engineering technician - Power
2 year program

at Mohawk College*

>gradefag telling themselves their gen ed grades aren't arbitrary as fuck.
>gradefags wish all that time they spent studying citation ethics would be what gets them a job

What school do you go to? Somehow I really doubt it's an ivy. Graduate classes rarely give out grades below a C. You must be goofing hard.

Grade inflation is only really a problem at low to mid tier universities with high acceptance rates.

Grades are required to distinguish between low and high achievers within the class. Grade inflation diminishes this since it would be difficult to tell who is good or not if everyone gets an A.

That's why its needed at low to mid tier universities, to separate the wheat from the chaff.

However, at high tier universities where pretty much everyone is already very smart, it's a lot less important. You're essentially just distinguishing between smarts and smarts.

If a class has averages in the A range at a T1 school, the exact same class could easily generate a C average at a T3 school filled with T3 students. Even though the A grade that T1 students receive is indeed inflated, it doesn't detract from the difficulty of the class.

Even though, for example, Purdue has virtually 0 grade inflation in the past few decades, it doesn't mean the classes are harder. It's just that the students are dumb enough to generate that distribution.

That's why like I said before, name brand is more important than GPA.

1) Personne sait ce que c'est qu'une CPGE à part les français de France.

2) Ta note veut rien dire vu qu'elle dépend du lycée ou t'es placé. J'étais dixième de ma promo à SL et j'explosais en concours des potes majors de promos.

L'inflation dans le cas précis des CPGE est du au niveau relatif par rapport au reste de ta classe, couillon.

Tutoranon,
>Firstly
How did you get in to it?
>2
Do you feel tutoring is more effective on a per-student basis then a traditional class?
>3
What were you best and worst experiences?
>4
How did you lesson plan? Did you have a skeleton framework you built on depending on the student, or more a one-size-fits-all style?
>5
What was your pay and hours like?
>Lastly
Did you enjoy it and would you do it again?

>Why do I ask?
I've trained to be a teacher, however most schooling leaves me... Disillusioned with the relationship between the facility and the students.
>I did BA History and English with Hons. in TESOL.

HHHHHHHHGGGGGNNNNNNNN

Google est là pour ça, mais tu sous-estimes la réputation des CPGE/GE sur Veeky Forums (je pense à Veeky Forums en particulier).

>Inflation in the specific case of CPGE depends on the relative level compared to the rest of the class
So what ? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind about the grade inflation in primary and secondary schools. But that's exactly how it should be when shit gets serious ; the best one gets an A while the worst one gets an F, so that the whole rating scale is used. It's way more meaningful and encourages them to work harder.
Now if you're worried about the Ivy League students complaining about how unfair that system would be for them, just introduce the ECTS grading scale as well.

Do any of you guys know how it's possible to go to an Ivey League School when you're from a different country?

I'm from Belgium and even though it's hard to get good grades, mediocrity is the norm and excellence isn't rewarded as much.

For instance in my first year of law, around 40% passes per exam. The grade is a number on 20.

For example 10 is a passing grade, 14+ is considered v good. (10%) gets this and 19-20 is almost never achieved, this is a very rare occasion. Per subject maybe 1 student, but mostly 0.

Does the USA actually take this into account?

Of course it's possible. Many people from around the world go to Ivy League. You'll need to be either very smart or very rich (or very black for "diversity").

grade inflation is more for ivy leagues imo, not much of it in State unis.

I go to Rutgers and there is no grade inflation at all, a lot of people have failed at least 1 class during their college career, unless they have an ezpz major

Everything is done by meritocracy user.

Niggers just never achieve anything meritable.